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  #21  
Old 07.05.2012, 15:42
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

i have told this story many times but again: my ex GF (swiss) lived in village A and went to school there. after finnishing primary school she had to go to a 12km away village B for grammar school. and within 8 years of time she neve felt welcome in that class. everybody apart from her grew up the same area, lived there for ages. and that made them a kind of closed circle. my ex-GFs family had a big house so for bdays, partys.... the door was open and kids were all provided with everything possible. in return she never was invited, never one called her for cinema, swimming... kids activities. and it wasnt that shes a shy girl, not outgoing, introvert kid etc. she made maybe one friend in there and this girl just looked after her and from time to time she, the friend, couldnt decide: ask her out and maybe then spoiling the relationship to her original classmates or going with the mob?

my theory is, that from history/geographic setting, people never got out much of their valley and that somebody new is still loooked at like: i dont know you. and you are new-> i dont like you. even if youre from another village: this is us. get lost.

her parents as long as i was frequenting their house never had spontaneus guests knocking on their door like: "oi, the footy match is on tonight, i have a couple of drinks n meat...lets bbq? lets simply hang out on your terrace? do you want to?" or "im infront of the bakery, ill get some cake n you the coffee... mind if i pop by?" everything was organized with their agenda, calendar and for weeks. there was 5.5. ueli&ursina coming, 8.5. we see beat&marie at their house, etc., etc. no way they could spontaneus agree on something... same for my housemates when i hit Zurich in 2006. they were like me in their mid 30ies. never they had a loud music on, never they celebrated a party, a birthday, nothing! the rushed into their flat like:....eeeeeeek! please i dont want to speak to you! wtf?? sometimes i thought their dead, as there was no noise coming out of their place.

the last comp i was working for, colleagues never had the idea after we returned from a buis-trip to have a beer simply at the HB: they rushed home. always.

i was snowboarding with a colleague. i dunno what i did wrong that he told me he is "...not going anywhere" after i said in case youre going again, call me friday night for saturday or sunday? he never did. 4.5 years we were on same train, he never sat down by me but "escaped" into the next carriage. and you could feel it how unpleasend he felt that he didnt get away unseen. sometimes we met on the last 500m to our office n i asked him what he did on the weekend: his response was" nothing." so i asked him slightly pissed what nothing means, if he sat on the sofa, hands folded into his thighs waiting for time passing by? and he said: oh, nonono! me and my wife went out to that restaurant, i was wakeboarding on sunday....blablabla... its simple smalltalk, dude?!

or why i have the feeling that when you meet some swiss for the first time (introduced via a mutual friend, eg) you feel like on a date? or meeting the ex GF/BF unexpected? awkward! while talking there is no flow getting into the discussion. you simply turn away and look for expats. german, english.. who ever, but please: no swiss. stiff, boring and always the feeling you did something wrong or youre an alien... yes, swiss german etc., ok. but i do understand it perfectly, so speak it.

i dont know what it is. i have never felt so lost in getting to know a swiss, not talking about making any friends. swiss friends i have... ALL OF THEM lived abroad/in germany for a while, min 6 month. and loved it.

i gave in, stick to those i have and stopped worrying about it... this topic comes up frequently here as many people new to CH dont get "why?". i dont too.
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  #22  
Old 07.05.2012, 15:53
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?


Yes, but this coconut is somewhat easy to break (** but take some time, likethe real coconut) if you know the local language and keep a smiley on ur face -Danke :-).

most people are so busy in their day to day life that they and we forgot tokeep the smiley ON :-).
these all will work .
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  #23  
Old 07.05.2012, 15:58
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

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these all will work .
Whilst everbody looks more like this
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Old 07.05.2012, 15:59
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

From my experience only I can say that the Swiss can be very good friends, but sometimes I feel the pressure I have to be like them, think like them...They are genuinely good people but somehow think their way is the best way and that could be very irritating. But never be ashamed to speak up, the reasonable Swill is usually listeaning to you if you have something to say.. And get used with the idea of super-planning everything, this is the way they are, sometimes they are really cute trying to prepare everything in advance. I personally admit it wouldn't hurt me to be a bit more organized..
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Old 07.05.2012, 16:20
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?


“My personal observation on Swiss people” - its looks like because of theirsuper-planned-life-style and always-on-time-attitude they all are tired (i.e.Swiss) and I can see the difference on Saturday and Sunday on their face. Is myobservation is correct? (up to what % ?, pls advice). danke
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  #26  
Old 07.05.2012, 16:29
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I like the Swiss atitude to be honest. It generally ensures peace and quiet and not having to feign interest when someone is usually trying to tell me what they did at the weekend with their brats.
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  #27  
Old 07.05.2012, 16:37
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I like the Swiss way too. I don't like in your face friendships where people just turn up unannounced. All that was ok when I was in my 20s but now I like my peace and quiet with people who are important to me. Not really interested in other general friends shit. I have met my share of Swiss pricks too but the ones that have become mates have been very solid friends.

I can see though that people who always like company might have issues in Swissy.
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  #28  
Old 07.05.2012, 16:46
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I like them. They are polite, nice, friendly people. I don't know why so many foreigners think that Swiss are cold and this and that. In the end, you live in their country...
Now...I don't have many friends here, let alone Swiss BUT I do know 3 amazing Swiss that are friendly, open to know me and about my country, they gave me ''Welcome to Switzerland'' presents, they brought me sweets and they gave me a grammar book to learn German! Then again...I live in a small village, but even so I was lucky enough to meet only nice Swiss! When I go to the supermarket, everybody smiles and the ones that don't smile are...the ''auslaender''. When I waited for the bus sometimes a nice old man or woman told me something in Swiss German and I told them I understand Swiss German but I don't speak it. One man told me: ''Then let's speak German , it is good for you''!
Yes I see differences between my Swiss friends and the Italian and Spanish friends but I never had problems with breaking the coconut.
If you put a happy face, even if they look grumpy, they will smile back...or not...it depends on the person but overall I am always happy when someone starts a conversation with me.
One time I was in Waldshut, waiting for the train to come back to Zurich and one lady started talking to me, then we talked more on the train and she invited me for a coffee and a cake in ZH train station because I helped her with the bags and we talked for over 2 hours!
Like in every country- you meet nice people and not so nice people. If you meet someone new, look interested and ask questions about his life or about Switzerland. BUT you have to follow your intuition if that person is willing or not to open up to you.

Last edited by princessduck; 07.05.2012 at 17:02.
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  #29  
Old 07.05.2012, 18:45
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

When I first arrived here, I was so scared to even go outside without my husband. I'm black and I was worried that everybody would be staring at me. But I was wrong, nobody really made a big deal about it. People would great me on the streets with a smile, something we don't do in my home country. My neighbours too were all very friendly. My husband and I even got invited to a glass of wine by our neighbours and the husband talked to me in English and the wife apologised coz she couldn't. I felt so welcomed. After the birth of our child, My neighbours who I didn't recognise would stop me on the street to introduce themselves and their kids and see my baby. It happenned with three women. One of my neighboors even carved a gift for our daughter. My daughter is welcome to play with their kids...and the other day my neighboor watched after my kid when I was cooking so she could play with her kids. I have been invited for coffees and bdays and when my kid has a birthday they all come with their kids. Ând they are all swiss. I speak broken German but they always praise the progress I have made. We always have a good chat when we meet outside and I can say we have a healthy relationship.
Ofcourse being the only black person around makes you very conspicous. But I have almost always had good experiences. Until now I haven't had any racist encounter. I don't really bother with the people who look at you so unfriendly at the trainstation because there are such people evrywhere. I tend to focus more on the positive experiences I have made. As for me I have the best neighbours i could think of. And from my experiences I wouldn't say swiss people are unfriendly coz the contrary is true for me.
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  #30  
Old 07.05.2012, 19:12
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

Yeah we saw this too. Thanks for your comment. I don't know why this is, maybe just as an elderly person in any culture you get more friendly. I remember the time we sat at our caveau in our village and the elderly people who live across from us came to talk and said they did not speak quite good english. They were getting kicked out of their place after having it in their family for more than 100 years. I spoke to my french teacher about this and she told me this is a huge problem en suisse, where older people can not maintain their housing or afford to pay for food but no one talks about it. I felt so sad. It was the family (middle guy) who did not like us that bought their property and turned it into a modern 3 family. I still wonder where the older people went...

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Your mention of the three generations is interesting. My father in law reckons there is an age range of less tolerant people in Switzerland, between the ages of about 40 and 60. Older people and pensioners seem happy to talk to anyone, as with the younger crowd, but this middle group seem to be the most distrusting and unhappy with outsiders with reactions ranging from cold civility to outright disdain. This is a view from a conversation between my wife and her dad, both of whom are Swiss (so I can claim this isn't an outsider's perspective!).
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  #31  
Old 08.05.2012, 01:23
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

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“My personal observation on Swiss people” - its looks like because of theirsuper-planned-life-style and always-on-time-attitude they all are tired (i.e.Swiss) and I can see the difference on Saturday and Sunday on their face. Is myobservation is correct? (up to what % ?, pls advice). danke
Hugh?...................
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  #32  
Old 08.05.2012, 06:24
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

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Whilst everbody looks more like this
Exactly, we need more of this:

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  #33  
Old 08.05.2012, 09:46
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

yes, swiss are nice, friendly, etc. but for me it is not about a simple friendly conversation over the fence or curios questions about your newborn, new car, house, etc. its not about nice neighbours or random sweet grandmas you meet in your village at the bus stop. what i mean is that its very, very hard and strange that you hardly make any swiss FRIENDS! as i said in other threads: you invite somebody to your house and youll get a) a rejection like "i am going to test my bike" b) they come, bring a present, eat your stuff, feeling awkward what to say, stay the etiquette-2h, leave and you will never hear back from them. you do this again, maybe inviting for cinema, maybe for beer-pizza-dvd-night at your house. you do it over and over again and if youre lucky, you will be invited back out of decency. but thats it. it never reached the point where it got more personal. it never reached the point not being formal. it never reached the point that somebody called n said: hey, were going out doing XYZ and i thought of you if you might wanna join in? i am not saying it is not happening at all, but rarely compared to other places where i have lived, other nationalities i have met. it happens rarely and you can call yourself lucky if a nice friendship develops...
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Old 08.05.2012, 10:15
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

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yes, swiss are nice, friendly, etc. but for me it is not about a simple friendly conversation over the fence or curios questions about your newborn, new car, house, etc. its not about nice neighbours or random sweet grandmas you meet in your village at the bus stop. what i mean is that its very, very hard and strange that you hardly make any swiss FRIENDS! as i said in other threads: you invite somebody to your house and youll get a) a rejection like "i am going to test my bike" b) they come, bring a present, eat your stuff, feeling awkward what to say, stay the etiquette-2h, leave and you will never hear back from them. you do this again, maybe inviting for cinema, maybe for beer-pizza-dvd-night at your house. you do it over and over again and if youre lucky, you will be invited back out of decency. but thats it. it never reached the point where it got more personal. it never reached the point not being formal. it never reached the point that somebody called n said: hey, were going out doing XYZ and i thought of you if you might wanna join in? i am not saying it is not happening at all, but rarely compared to other places where i have lived, other nationalities i have met. it happens rarely and you can call yourself lucky if a nice friendship develops...
That sounds more like stalking and harrassment to me!

If you were my neighbour Id tell you to take the hint and sod off.

There are a lot of people out there, you cant make friends with some, then shrug and move on. Thats what a decent pub is for!
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Old 08.05.2012, 10:23
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

Swiss people are a little conservative, but I still like their culture . I have been here for 7 months now, and i found out that if you are kind to a swiss person and smile, they will for sure be kind and smile back. On the other hand they have a beautiful country...put yourself in their shoes, would you like the risk that foreigners could ruin it all?
I have also noticed that in order to have swiss friends you HAVE to understand swiss german. I have gone out a lot with my colleagues from work and realized that it is not so confortable for them to speak high german. And when you are in a bigger group, all of them just want to enjoy themselves and relax, not worry about you feeling good. So i guess that if you can break the language barrier, you will feel much more confortable among swiss people. I now understand around 70% of what the most are saying...and it really makes a big difference in my social life
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  #36  
Old 08.05.2012, 10:29
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I'm hoping that Switzerland is like northern Spain, where it's very difficult to meet people unless you know just one native and they you become integrated into their group of friends. Don't get me wrong, I have some lovely friends here, but none of them are Swiss. After being here for 20 months, I met a Swiss person a couple of weeks ago and we hit it off straight away. Hopefully I'll manage to make some more Swiss friends now!
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Old 08.05.2012, 10:49
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I think what a lot of you describe sounds really forced, but you can't force friendship, a dozen invitations won't achieve what a simple "let's go for a beer after work" due to mutual sympathy does. In Switzerland it's like everywhere in the world, either you like to be around the person or you don't.
Oh and by the way, it's all very well trying to integrate, understanding the language certainly helps a lot, but by trying to emulate what you perceive as Swiss behavior you will most likely come across a bore, forcing yourself on someone like flow32 described just isn't done.
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  #38  
Old 08.05.2012, 10:57
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

If you look at the location of the people who say the Swiss aren't friendly, they're nearly always in Zurich.

I was outside my flat yesterday evening, in BASEL, changing the inner tube on one bike and putting new tyres on my other one. Three people, three that as far as I'm aware I'd never seen before, gruezi'd me or guten abended me as they walked past. Another (the fourth!) started talking to me. After my usual "sprechen sie English?" she just wanted to know why I had so many flat tyres! I expained that I was just replacing worn out tyres for new ones.

I'm sure if I did this in Zurich they would have spat at me and the SVP stapled something to my forehead.
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Old 08.05.2012, 11:01
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

I have to change my flat tyre too. Will let you know how it goes. Last time I had a flat tyre a person who I only say hello to forced me to use their bike for the day.
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Old 08.05.2012, 11:05
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Re: Are the Swiss really hard to crack like coconuts?

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I think what a lot of you describe sounds really forced, but you can't force friendship, a dozen invitations won't achieve what a simple "let's go for a beer after work" due to mutual sympathy does. In Switzerland it's like everywhere in the world, either you like to be around the person or you don't.
Oh and by the way, it's all very well trying to integrate, understanding the language certainly helps a lot, but by trying to emulate what you perceive as Swiss behavior you will most likely come across a bore, forcing yourself on someone like flow32 described just isn't done.
but I thought part of the citizenship test included identifying all of your Swiss friends???



I joined 2 clubs in the city and wondered to my wife for the first several weeks why none of the dudes went out for beers afterward (since of course in the States clubs for grown men are always nothing more than an excuse to drink beer, talk sports, brag about your kids and complain about your wives/girlfriends). turns out many of them did, there is simply some unwritten entrance exam and initiation process to learn the secret handshake and password to finally get asked along.

imagine my chagrin, naturally, when I discovered that "gommer eis go zieh" really means just "eis".

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