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  #81  
Old 15.03.2015, 11:19
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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from the perspective of most native speakers of English there's a clear difference between the ex- and im- prefixes.
It's a question of perspective, the suffix ē- in emigration is a from of the suffix ex-. Who says "expat" sees himself from the his country of origine, who says "immigrant" sees himself from the country he lives in. Hence the comment I've heard from a student once (the original word for "arrive" was "ankommen"):

"Expats are immigrants who psychologically are not arrived yet, whereas immigrants are people the locals make sure don't forget that they arrived."
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  #82  
Old 15.03.2015, 12:02
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Hmmm...

http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...P=share_btn_fb

I agree with one comment on article's page that immigrants migrate out of necessity, while expats do it by choice.

People who EMIgrate from Continental Europe are EMIgrants as the word EXPAT only exists in English. Which roughly means that the whole article you mention is SHIT

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I did a minimal amount of digging (I clicked on a link) and can only conclude that the Guardian is just trolling: the author is a no-name blogger from Africa; and the photograph used to illustrate the article is clearly intended to be provocative.

It merely serves to confirm my belief that the Guardian is just the posh people's Daily Mail.

smh

The chap is a Snob from Lome/Togo but apparently not well educated. Otherwise he knew that Expat is an English term NOT in use in other European languages

Last edited by glowjupiter; 11.12.2015 at 01:45. Reason: Please use multiquote button.
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  #83  
Old 15.03.2015, 12:24
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Re: Who's an expat and who's a(n im)migrant?

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the word EXPAT only exists in English.
Your conclusion might be right, but the word/concept exist in many languages:
French - expatriation
Danish - udstationering
Romansh - expatriaziun
German - Entsendung meaning Au▀endienst (old vocab in Empires, isn't used anymore) replaced by Expatriierung
Dutch only for expatriate - uitzonden
Russian - откомандировaние but the more fashionable anglicism экспатриат wins for the word expatriate.

Perhaps you mean that all those other words refer to a colonial system or short terms missions for a company only. The usual use of the English word in the meaning "I can choose where I work and I chose to work in your country" is a creation of the global market economy rooted in the English-Globish language hence Expat as an anglicism everywhere. You are probably right if you mean that, indeed.

EDIT: Japanese is also very descriptive:
国外駐在 kokugaichűzai - oversee employee
異郷人 iky˘jin - expat in Japan
在留邦人 zairyűh˘jin - Japanese expatriate
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Last edited by Faltrad; 15.03.2015 at 12:52.
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  #84  
Old 15.03.2015, 12:28
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

And in US English, an expatriate is someone who has given up their US citizenship.

Tom
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  #85  
Old 15.03.2015, 13:20
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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And in US English, an expatriate is someone who has given up their US citizenship.

Tom

Really ? The son, sorry grandson, of a Cousin in Houston/TX worked for a year in Aberdeen/Scotland and saw himself as a Texan expat. The son of a Cousin in Buda/Austin worked on marine biology in Muscat for a year and described himself also as a Texan expat. Neither ever gave up their citizenship. I in Cairo and Beirut and Muscat and Amman met US Americans who described themselves as US expats but None of them had given up their US citizenshp
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  #86  
Old 15.03.2015, 14:30
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Really ? The son, sorry grandson, of a Cousin in Houston/TX worked for a year in Aberdeen/Scotland and saw himself as a Texan expat. The son of a Cousin in Buda/Austin worked on marine biology in Muscat for a year and described himself also as a Texan expat. Neither ever gave up their citizenship. I in Cairo and Beirut and Muscat and Amman met US Americans who described themselves as US expats but None of them had given up their US citizenshp
They probably used the word expat because so many people casually do - having no idea of the entropy of the word.

Personally, I do not like the word "expat" used as a label - I would never refer to myself as an expat, despite not having lived in the country I am from for 22 years. I would not consider myself an immigrant either, in any of the countries I have lived. I am just me, living my life in different places, the exact coordinates of which change from time to time. In fact the place from which I feel most alienated is the country of my birth.
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  #87  
Old 15.03.2015, 14:40
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

Expat- moves here for a short while. Sent via a company usually. Does not need to integrate. Leaves.

Immigrant- sounds negative only when used in negative terms.
Not mixing it up with a asylum case.

Person who moves to another country out of free will.
Anyone who also married a local and moved here is also an immigrant.
Plans to stay long term. Integrates (Should).
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  #88  
Old 15.03.2015, 16:24
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Anyone who also married a local and moved here is also an immigrant.
I moved here, and married a Canadian I met in Zurich (in New York).

What does that make me?

Tom
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  #89  
Old 15.03.2015, 16:44
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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I moved here, and married a Canadian I met in Zurich (in New York).

What does that make me?
Italian, clearly. And probably Swiss by now too.
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  #90  
Old 15.03.2015, 16:55
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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I moved here, and married a Canadian I met in Zurich (in New York).

What does that make me?

Tom
Well, you moved and settled here. That for me is an immigrant.
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  #91  
Old 17.03.2015, 18:30
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

If you import Japanes nappies via Russia, delivered into Germany- I think you might be an expat (and on the minimum EF salary of 140k of course).
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  #92  
Old 17.03.2015, 19:09
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Re: Who's an expat and who's a(n im)migrant?

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People who EMIgrate from Continental Europe are EMIgrants as the word EXPAT only exists in English. Which roughly means that the whole article you mention is SHIT
It's the Guardian. What do you expect?
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  #93  
Old 17.03.2015, 19:13
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Personally, I do not like the word "expat" used as a label - I would never refer to myself as an expat, despite not having lived in the country I am from for 22 years. I would not consider myself an immigrant either, in any of the countries I have lived. I am just me, living my life in different places, the exact coordinates of which change from time to time. In fact the place from which I feel most alienated is the country of my birth.

I, on the contrary like the word expat.

An immigrant is under some pressure to adapt and integrate if not assimilate.

An expat is somebody who well ...

I prefer to let this guy explain

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  #94  
Old 17.03.2015, 19:14
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Re: Who's an expat and who's a(n im)migrant?

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It's the Guardian. What do you expect?
The Daily Fail headline could have been: "FOREIGN INVADERS THINK THEY ARE EXPATS, STEAL OUR JOBS..."
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Old 17.03.2015, 19:52
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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... having no idea of the entropy of the word.


Presumably you mean entomology.
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  #96  
Old 17.03.2015, 23:09
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Presumably you mean entomology.
No, I did mean entropy - Linguistic entropy is a bit abstract but refers to the degree of specific meaning in a particular word (more or less..it was explained to me by a linguist whose English is just slightly better than my basic Italian - hard to convey w/o the hands)

"It is as if some grammatical features require more cognitive energy than others, and when presented with a choice the mind will naturally choose the lower-energy solution. It would be fascinating to study the language of expats from a large variety of linguistic backgrounds, immersed in a wide variety of foreign languages, and make a of table of features "unnaturally" borrowed into their native languages, and the features that are replaced. The result, I think, would be an entropy graph of linguistic features: each time a native feature is replaced by a foreign feature we could say that the native feature is at a higher energy level than the foreign feature that replaced it." (Quote from a linguists blog - linguidynamics)
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Old 18.03.2015, 11:27
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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No, I did mean entropy - Linguistic entropy is a bit abstract but refers to the degree of specific meaning in a particular word (more or less..it was explained to me by a linguist whose English is just slightly better than my basic Italian - hard to convey w/o the hands)

"It is as if some grammatical features require more cognitive energy than others, and when presented with a choice the mind will naturally choose the lower-energy solution. It would be fascinating to study the language of expats from a large variety of linguistic backgrounds, immersed in a wide variety of foreign languages, and make a of table of features "unnaturally" borrowed into their native languages, and the features that are replaced. The result, I think, would be an entropy graph of linguistic features: each time a native feature is replaced by a foreign feature we could say that the native feature is at a higher energy level than the foreign feature that replaced it." (Quote from a linguists blog - linguidynamics)
To some extent you may get elements from foreign languages "polluting" your native language. I am noticing this with myelf at times and also with others. At first you actively try to fight back but after a time you start to think WTF and let it slip.

On the other hand, confrontation with foreign languages can teach you to use your own more precisely. I had a teacher at school who said that to speak English properly, we should start by learning a foreign language. At the time I though she was a bit crazy but over time I've come to agree with her point of view. The act of moving from an intuitive use of grammar to actively thinking about and analyzing grammar can be as useful in one's own language as it is in foreign languages.
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Old 18.03.2015, 13:57
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Presumably you mean entomology.
Cute bait. Didn't work, though.
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Old 18.03.2015, 14:10
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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I moved here, and married a Canadian I met in Zurich (in New York).

What does that make me?

Tom
A man?

regards
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Old 18.03.2015, 14:21
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Expat- moves here for a short while. Sent via a company usually. Does not need to integrate. Leaves.

Immigrant- sounds negative only when used in negative terms.
Not mixing it up with a asylum case.

Person who moves to another country out of free will.
Anyone who also married a local and moved here is also an immigrant.
Plans to stay long term. Integrates (Should).
True. An expat is a person who is most likely to return and thus retains old citizenship, unless (s)he settles in which case becomes an immigrant. An immigrant is more likely to aspire/hope to attain citizenship of the country of residence and settle down unless he/she returns in which case the years in the foreign nation would be called 'expat years' :-)

Regards

Last edited by sudeepta; 18.03.2015 at 14:35.
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