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  #161  
Old 05.06.2016, 18:09
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Expat = immigrant?

Did anyone watch Henning Wehn's 'Immigrant's Guide to Britain'? It's a comedy/documentary series on channel 4.

He claimed that expats are the same as immigrants which got me thinking.

What is an expat?
What is the difference between an expat and an immigrant?
Are expats predominantely well educated Western people? What if a well educated Asian person moves for a job to Europe?
Is it that expats go back to where they came from? Although that is not always the case.
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  #162  
Old 05.06.2016, 18:12
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Re: Expat = immigrant?

Hi,

I have always thought of myself as an immigrant. I find the term expat insulting as it implies that you are always going to return to the country where you were born. I think immigrant sounds better as it implies that it is a choice you have made to come here and intend to stay.

Have fun
Martin
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  #163  
Old 05.06.2016, 18:16
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

Wiki, as usual, has the answer.

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship. The word comes from the Latin terms ex ("out of") and patria ("country, fatherland").

In common usage, the term is often used in the context of professionals or skilled workers sent abroad by their companies.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate
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  #164  
Old 06.06.2016, 01:01
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Wiki, as usual, has the answer.

An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing, as an immigrant, in a country other than that of their citizenship.
Great, so they're the same.

But they're not, so Wikipedia, as usual, is incomplete or wrong.
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  #165  
Old 06.06.2016, 08:21
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

Yes, they are the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration

"Immigration is the international movement of people into a destination country of which they are not natives or where they do not possess citizenship in order to settle or reside there, especially as permanent residents or naturalized citizens, or to take-up employment as a migrant worker or temporarily as a foreign worker.[1][2][3]

When people cross national borders during their migration, they are called migrants or immigrants (from Latin: migrare, wanderer) from the perspective of the country which they enter. From the perspective of the country which they leave, they are called emigrant or outmigrant.[4] Sociology designates immigration usually as migration (as well as emigration accordingly outward migration).

Immigrants are motivated to leave their former countries of citizenship, or habitual residence, for a variety of reasons, including a lack of local access to resources, a desire for economic prosperity, to find or engage in paid work, to better their standard of living, family reunification, retirement, climate or environmentally induced migration, exile, escape from prejudice, conflict or natural disaster, or simply the wish to change one's quality of life. Commuters, tourists and other short-term stays in a destination country do not fall under the definition of immigration or migration, seasonal labour immigration is sometimes included."

It doesn't really matter why you crossed the border. The fact that you did makes you a migrant. That "expats" is commonly used to describe those people who are sent to work abroad by their companies and expect to return to their home country after a few years doesn't change the fact that they're also migrants.
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  #166  
Old 06.06.2016, 09:42
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Great, so they're the same.

But they're not, so Wikipedia, as usual, is incomplete or wrong.
In other words, every expat is also an immigrant, but not every immigrant is automatically an expat.
But then again, there are political connotations on the terms immigrant and expat. I'm sure this has been mentioned before in this thread
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  #167  
Old 06.06.2016, 09:58
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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In other words, every expat is also an immigrant, but not every immigrant is automatically an expat.
But then again, there are political connotations on the terms immigrant and expat. I'm sure this has been mentioned before in this thread
Precisely.
You're using Wikipedia to verify a Wikipedia definition?
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  #168  
Old 06.06.2016, 10:02
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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In other words, every expat is also an immigrant, but not every immigrant is automatically an expat.
But then again, there are political connotations on the terms immigrant and expat. I'm sure this has been mentioned before in this thread
Right. Every expat is an immigrant. In common parlance expat is just a term to camouflage that state by offering what may appear to be a bit more 'classy'. A somewhat feeble way to distinguish between refugee and asylum seekers and a person who moved to pursue some job or business.
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  #169  
Old 06.06.2016, 10:34
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

An immigrant is an expat and vice versa - at least to begin with. When an immigrant settles in the new country, become a citizen or otherwise calls it home, then they cease to be ex patria, because the new country becomes their new patria, but they will always remain immigrants.

Historically expats tend to be Gastarbeiteren or guest workers, in that they have no intention of settling down in that new country, even if they end up spending the rest of their lives there - they will always, by choice, remain foreigners and their integration will be limited because they will always see their country of origin as their home, where they shall one day return to, or be buried in - even if in reality they don't.

The social status of expats traditionally tends to be considered higher, because they often have specialized (and thus better educated and paid) skills, however the term is largely an Anglo-Saxon one, reflecting the temporary employment of British professionals, such as engineers, who were employed across the British empire to help administrate and build infrastructure such as rail-roads, during the nineteenth century.

Non-English speakers don't really make the same distinction between immigrants and expats.
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  #170  
Old 06.06.2016, 11:27
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

The direction of movement is used to determine if one is an immigrant or an expat. If one is moving in the UK, one is a slug, aka immigrant. If one is moving out of the UK, one is a highly-skilled and entitled person, aka expat.
Now with the Brexit looming, the immigrants will be considered an even lower life form than slugs, while the expats will gain in status and entitlement.
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  #171  
Old 06.06.2016, 11:43
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Now with the Brexit looming, the immigrants will be considered an even lower life form than slugs, while the expats will gain in status and entitlement.
That should make them feel better when they're forced to return to the UK.

Brexit leaves the future of British citizens here in a bit of a limbo, from what I can make out. In theory, British citizens could be treated the same as all EEA citizens here. However this freedom of movement works both ways and last I heard limiting this is a big policy point for the British 'Leave' campaign, so retaining it would kind of defeat the purpose of leaving, in the first place.

If so, it could see British citizens losing their 'equal status' with the Swiss. when moving here to live and work, and having to cue up all the non-EEA citizens to get their B permits renewed every year. If they can get an employer that will sponsor them, that is.
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  #172  
Old 06.06.2016, 11:51
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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That should make them feel better when they're forced to return to the UK.

Brexit leaves the future of British citizens here in a bit of a limbo, from what I can make out. In theory, British citizens could be treated the same as all EEA citizens here. However this freedom of movement works both ways and last I heard limiting this is a big policy point for the British 'Leave' campaign, so retaining it would kind of defeat the purpose of leaving, in the first place.

If so, it could see British citizens losing their 'equal status' with the Swiss. when moving here to live and work, and having to cue up all the non-EEA citizens to get their B permits renewed every year. If they can get an employer that will sponsor them, that is.

Good news for all the Brits with C-permits, then!
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  #173  
Old 06.06.2016, 11:54
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Good news for all the Brits with C-permits, then!
Yup. And for the Irish.
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  #174  
Old 06.06.2016, 11:56
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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...and having to cue up all the non-EEA citizens
OMG, shocking! Brits treated equally to the smelly, filthy and disease-ridden non-EEA folk.
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Old 06.06.2016, 15:15
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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OMG, shocking! Brits treated equally to the smelly, filthy and disease-ridden non-EEA folk.
Yes, because non-EEA citizens are at a comparative disadvantage to EEA citizens in terms of permits, employment and overall bureaucracy. EEA are on equal footing legally in the job market with Swiss, have a much easier time getting permits and a much shorter wait time (AFAIK) to get C status. Feel free to disagree with this.

As for Americans, Australians and Canadians being smelly, filthy and disease-ridden, I don't think so. Why do you?

Last edited by Aeneas; 06.06.2016 at 15:26.
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Old 06.06.2016, 15:26
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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As for Americans, Australians and Canadians being smelly, filthy and disease-ridden, I don't think so. Why do you?
Yes, of course. I am non-EU and soon Brits will have to be treated like the scum that I represent. Dreadful!
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Old 06.06.2016, 15:35
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Yes, of course. I am non-EU and soon Brits will have to be treated like the scum that I represent. Dreadful!
I still don't see your point. I don't see non-EEA being treated as 'scum', but treated on a par with most other foreign workers around the World - are they treated any differently in that part of the World you come from, for example?

The difference is not that non-EEA are singled out negatively, but EEA citizens are singled out positively. You may not think that fair, but that's another discussion.
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  #178  
Old 06.06.2016, 15:39
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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I still don't see your point.
Are all Brits devoid of humor or you only get the weird, British one?
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Old 06.06.2016, 15:41
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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Are all Brits devoid of humor or you only get the weird, British one?
It's not called weird, it's called irony.
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  #180  
Old 06.06.2016, 15:45
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Re: Expat vs. Immigrant

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It's not called weird, it's called irony.
funny...you missed the irony again.
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