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  #241  
Old 27.06.2012, 19:03
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Re: fat bum

Hmmm...thin person's life does not have to be super easy either, despite the ideal weight or whatever. People's assumptions work both ways. I am tired to fending off the ever coming eating disorder questions, when one is perfectly a ok and eats a lot, in fact. Or try getting decent looking (and not mermaidy weirdness from over the border since there is more chance for smaller adult size clothes) stuff in 32. So, there..If one didn't know how to sew I would be walking in kid's clothes which don't cut it either since they don't have a butt.

Bah. People who devote themselves to personal goals inspire me, whatever results they have, since it is all super subjective. I try to inspire others, too.

Only walking works, too, if one keeps the cal intake low. But eating more cals always means you will have to move more. For me it was always a global combo of all the little changes. Not the actual time in gym or restricted shopping list. It's a mindset.
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  #242  
Old 27.06.2012, 19:07
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Re: fat bum

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You're not listening!
Neither are you. I've tried to discuss this civilly, but you just seem to ignore my responses and keep spouting off with your passive-aggressive questioning of everyone's intentions and refusing to reply when your excuses are challenged.

If you ask me, you're a perfect example of someone who refuses to acknowledge that they have problem, and that they might have to exert themselves to deal with it.

All of your posts seem to boil down to "But it's HAAARRRD, and I don't wanna do it".

That's really not something I can respect. I've whipped my body into shape from a goddamn wheelchair, so your lack of flattering shorts in which to exercise really doesn't strike me as an obstacle - in fact the obstacle seems to be that you just don't want to have to put yourself out in any way.

[edit - ex post facto retraction noted and appreciated, so I've removed that section. Frankly I probably wouldn't have vented like this had it been in the original post (I do prefer to be civil), but I can't rightly memory-hole my outburst either. I lost my temper, and for that I apologize, but I'll leave this here because I do stand by the sentiments, even if the language is now a bit embarrassing to me. ]
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  #243  
Old 27.06.2012, 19:46
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Neither are you. I've tried to discuss this civilly, but you just seem to ignore my responses and keep spouting off with your passive-aggressive questioning of everyone's intentions and refusing to reply when your excuses are challenged.

If you ask me, you're a perfect example of someone who refuses to acknowledge that they have problem, and that they might have to exert themselves to deal with it.

All of your posts seem to boil down to "But it's HAAARRRD, and I don't wanna do it".

That's really not something I can respect. I've whipped my body into shape from a goddamn wheelchair, so your lack of flattering shorts in which to exercise really doesn't strike me as an obstacle - in fact the obstacle seems to be that you just don't want to have to put yourself out in any way.

[edit - ex post facto retraction noted and appreciated, so I've removed that section. Frankly I probably wouldn't have vented like this had it been in the original post (I do prefer to be civil), but I can't rightly memory-hole my outburst either. I lost my temper, and for that I apologize, but I'll leave this here because I do stand by the sentiments, even if the language is now a bit embarrassing to me. ]
No, she's not saying it's hard and she doesn't want to do it. She's looking for suggestions for comfortable attire that won't cost her an arm and a leg. Maybe you think it's banal, but as someone who supposedly understands body dysmorphism, you should have a clue. You are all so wrapped up in your self righteousness, we can't even discuss what are barriers to some. Good for you. I'm glad you whipped yourself into shape from a wheelchair. Wonderful.

And the rest of you should take your snarky pics of fat people, people of Walmart, diet pills and stupid opinions and find another sandbox.

And how presumptuous to assume you know what she - or any of us - want to do. Helpful suggestions, not self righteous judgment and snarky insults will help people engage in exercise and healthy eating.

discipline? Yeah some of you need discipline in the form of manners.

Respect? Keep your respect, thank you.
  #244  
Old 27.06.2012, 19:52
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Re: fat bum

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Hmmm...thin person's life does not have to be super easy either, despite the ideal weight or whatever. People's assumptions work both ways. I am tired to fending off the ever coming eating disorder questions, when one is perfectly a ok and eats a lot, in fact. Or try getting decent looking (and not mermaidy weirdness from over the border since there is more chance for smaller adult size clothes) stuff in 32. So, there..If one didn't know how to sew I would be walking in kid's clothes which don't cut it either since they don't have a butt.
Might not be your style but try Miss Selfridge in the UK. They do a UK 4, which is the equivalent of a 32. I love their stuff and the UK 4 is cut nicely for curves too (well..skinny ones).

I'm guilty of buying clothes made for kids on rare occasion but only because I like the style. ;p
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  #245  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:06
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Re: fat bum

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No, she's not saying it's hard and she doesn't want to do it. She's looking for suggestions for comfortable attire that won't cost her an arm and a leg. Maybe you think it's banal, but as someone who supposedly understands body dysmorphism, you should have a clue. You are all so wrapped up in your self righteousness, we can't even discuss what are barriers to some. Good for you. I'm glad you whipped yourself into shape from a wheelchair. Wonderful.

And the rest of you should take your snarky pics of fat people, people of Walmart, diet pills and stupid opinions and find another sandbox.

And how presumptuous to assume you know what she - or any of us - want to do. Helpful suggestions, not self righteous judgment and snarky insults will help people engage in exercise and healthy eating.

discipline? Yeah some of you need discipline in the form of manners.

Respect? Keep your respect, thank you.
She's not asking for suggestions, she's repeatedly giving excuses as to why she can't get in shape, and then claimed that it was to enlighten the rest of us. Some examples:

"Anyhow, the "excuses" I was giving was more as a way to try to help you guys see the obstacles (mental, emotional and actual physical, in the way of no clothing to fit) which are there. Trying to help you see that simply saying "eat less, exercise more" is not enough. There are some very real (clothing that is "for purpose" AND fits) and some "imagined" obstacles which are reasons we give ourselves - not as fodder for you to make anyone feel worse, but to try to help you see how hard it is for someone who faces those challenges."

"My problem with the "fatties vs skinnies" thing is that some people really don't see what barriers are in the way of the whole (very simple) "burn more calories than you consume" thing.

Yes, there are excuses, yes, there are ways to overcome the natural issues (such as medical conditions causing weight gain, often coupled with more difficulty in losing weight), but there are psychological issues as well, and this is where some of the hardest things to overcome come in.

It's easy enough to get up and run, when you've got something to wear that is designed to help keep you "comfortable" (sweating your ass off yes, but wicking the sweat away!) while you do it. People not looking at you like you're a thing instead of a person.

It's easy enough to go swimming when you can find bathing suits in your size. To go hiking when you can find comfortable hiking gear - in your size. To go skiing when you can find skiing gear in your size. To do any of that, if you don't have people giving you nasty looks.

Would it make sense to simply not pay attention to what other people think? Sure - but humans are social animals, we take our cues of "proper behavior" from others of our kind... when it is obvious that others disprove, we avoid those activities. Like swimming with our fat hanging out, cycling with the seat killing our ass, like running with everything jigging all over."

That reads a lot like 'it's too hard' to me.

[edit: Quotes from Pam A, but I haven't worked out multiquote yet]

Last edited by Occasional_Canadian; 27.06.2012 at 20:11. Reason: clarification
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  #246  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:15
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Re: fat bum

There's definitely many sore spots hit here in this thread. A lot of the comments, mostly the tone of the comments, can definitely point to the psychological issues related to body image. For people who suffer from such, any comment or negative mention is considered an attack. The blame game train is fully loaded! I've seen posters complaining about certain perhaps rude comments, yet making genuinely similar comments on other topics in other threads---topics which they don't suffer complexes of and therefore are apparently fair game.

The truth of it is if you are not happy with your physical state you have 2 options, 1: work on a mental state to accept yourself, laugh, enjoy, ridicule and be happy, or work your ass off and give 110% to achieve the form you desire.
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  #247  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:16
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Re: fat bum

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Hmmm...thin person's life does not have to be super easy either.
True - my husband is working hard to gain weight. He eats like a horse, but if he does not choose the extra calorific versions of everything and does not drink his weight gain shakes, he loses weight. Honestly, it is not so easy to sympathize when he complains that he eats and he eats and has still lost another kilo..but I don't tell him that well, I don't have any problems gaining so therefore the problem does not exist and he is just finding excuses.
  #248  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:25
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Re: fat bum

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I don't tell him that well, I don't have any problems gaining so therefore the problem does not exist and he is just finding excuses.
Does he complain that he can't be bothered to try to gain because he doesn't have pants that fit?

Nobody's said the problem doesn't exist - just that making excuses and finding reasons to defer the problem onto another isn't going to help anything change.

Unrelated to that, @edot - body dysmorphias are clinical and require professional intervention, and all obese people are not dysmorphic. If they are, and they are refusing to see a doctor or follow their treatment, then they are still making excuses or avoiding dealing with it.
  #249  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:26
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Re: fat bum

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I'm being silly? SILLY? Did you LOOK at those shorts?

Here they are:


Now, what SIZE do they come in? Top size is 48. THIS is part of the problem!
This is really a problem guys, because those shorts are too small for me (and I would never, ever wear lycra with my legs anyway) and I'm already reasonably fit.

To give you an idea of how real this issue is and also of what is considered "too fat to find clothes (well, anything that should also cover the lower part of my body) and fat enough to hear nasty comments" in Switzerland, voilà, me, BMI 31.5, thyroid that doesn't function, regular sessions of cortisone and wearing clothes that were all bought online, including the underwear (not in picture, obviously). And the reason I took the photo is that I was impressed at how two months of two to three times a week of Bodyrock had given me a fairly flat stomach.


Now I look at that and think, ok, definitely a bit bigger than ideal but not "oh my god, you disgusting, lazy fat person". And yet, I've had people make such comments, shop assistants looking at me with disdain if I dare ask for my size. I have always had to battle with my weight, ever since I first got put on an (unnecessary) diet at age 11. But yeah, you keep telling yourselves that it's ok to put others down, fat or thin. If that's how you increase your feeling of self-worth, I feel very sorry for you.

PS: Those trousers are thick cotton and hell to run in, hello heatstroke, if anyone knows of any sports shops in Germany (preferably Konstanz) that will cater to my Swiss size 48 behind and is not Ulla Popken (useless sports stuff and all too short), do tell.
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Old 27.06.2012, 20:31
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Hmmm...thin person's life does not have to be super easy either.
Nope, things are tough all over.

Edited to add, if you are thin people want to feed you or check you for an ED, or make snarky comments about your appearance. And it is tough to find clothes. Imagine being in your 50's and wearing kids clothes.

If you're fat, well, we've been there.

Last edited by edot; 27.06.2012 at 20:43.
  #251  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:35
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Unrelated to that, @edot - body dysmorphias are clinical and require professional intervention, and all obese people are not dysmorphic. If they are, and they are refusing to see a doctor or follow their treatment, then they are still making excuses or avoiding dealing with it.

I know. I've studied them. But thanks for clearing that up. They are psychiatric disorders, I believe. The problem is that as psychiatric disorders, they are subject to subjective diagnosis, and the individual may not be referred on for the appropriate care.

And I totally disagree with your assessment of the remarks about clothing too.
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Old 27.06.2012, 20:41
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Re: fat bum

Have you thought of doing a bit of Zumba at your local Gym?
  #253  
Old 27.06.2012, 20:58
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I actually wanted to make a constructive comment here, before I was distracted.

So anyway, last year I spent a lot of time in a steroid induced haze from chemo. The chemo wasn't bad but the steroids made me crazy. And I have a bad knee- arthritis- looking at a knee replacement. But I was really weak from zoning. So, I asked my doctor if I could have some rehab. The nice thing about Switzerland is that docs are very fond of physio and basic insurance seems to cover it. So I'm doing something called MTT, and I see my physio every other week to add exercises and expand my workout and work out at a fitness center in the meantime.

The nice thing about my primary care doc and my physio is that both of them are focused on how I feel, my strength, and not my weight.

Me, who hated these places in the US, actually likes the place I go to now. I might even join once the physio is done. Not sure what the difference is. I think it's because I'm focused. Exercise is helpful to stop bone loss. But people seem far less annoying. Oh, and I wear oversized tshirts and cotton leggings. Very comfy, and fine for walking.

One of the things that happened to me last year was that after my hair grew back, I stopped dying it. It's about a third gray. I suppose it made me more comfortable...that it was ok to be moving a bit slowly - because of my knee, I have a limp. So you see, small, almost trivial things can change your perspective. Thus, clothes can matter.

I'd like to be able to rollerblade, so balance is key. My balance is crap. With better balance and a new knee, we'll see.
  #254  
Old 27.06.2012, 21:26
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Re: fat bum

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I'd like to be able to rollerblade, so balance is key. My balance is crap. With better balance and a new knee, we'll see. .
Amen to that. It took 12 years from my accident to ride an (exercise) bike again, and 15 until I could skate. Knees are useful and I wish you the best in your recovery (and replacement?)

As for dysmorphias, you're right, they're psych disorders, problematic to diagnose and subjective to the Nth degree (not to mention the whims and urges of the psychiatric community - just look at the fiasco regarding apotemnophilia and the failure to distinguish between the desire to be an amputee and the feeling of a limb that shouldn't be there).

Regardless of that, the first step of dealing with any lifestyle based medical issue is confronting it. The dysmorphia thing plays only after the initial attempts at therapy have failed, and the psych is willing to concede that 'normative' may not apply in that situation, and possibly redefine the problem, and accept dysmorphia as a substitute diagnosis for delusion. My point is that dysmorphic or no, avoidance and unwillingness to confront the issue is a problem.

And yes, I've studied them extensively - written papers and spoken about it too (though for dysmorphias unrelated to weight/eating issues). I understand them well enough, but that doesn't mean I have to be sensitive about anything outside of a fieldwork situation - which this isn't.

I blew my top and vented when she replied to a post of mine (which she subsequently edited) basically accusing me of mocking fat people and not understanding how difficult it is for her because (among other issues) she can't find shorts that fit. She didn't ask for help finding shorts, she held them out as a reason for why exercise was difficult (quoted above). I took that rather badly, I confess, because I don't mock fat people (check the thread) and from my point of view having the correct clothing is a pretty minimal roadblock.

Once I saw her edit, I removed the part about the retraction, but left the remainder because I don't believe in trying to unsay embarrassing things.

The hot words I regret, but the sentiments I stand by - I still think that accepting the excuses is enabling very dangerous groupthink, and I just won't do it.
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  #255  
Old 27.06.2012, 21:39
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Re: fat bum

One thing I am (very unwillingly) realising is that you can have a 'need' to stay fat because it protects you. People are nasty to you because you are fat. Your life is not what you dreamt because you are fat. By being fat, you are less likely to attract genuine interest from the opposite sex and thus avoid the messy issue of letting someone get close. Some partners sabotage weight loss attempts because your low self esteem gives them power over you. And so on...

Losing weight can be scary because you may have to deal with other things then too. Keeping the weight and associated lifestyle patterns is like sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalala. So when we make excuses we are really saying 'I'm not ready. I'm scared. What if the weight is not the problem? Who am I if I'm not the cheerful, helpful fat person?' The more you make us feel sh*t about our weight, the less we want to find out what else there may be that you could shoot at, as that would be something interior that may REALLY hurt. It's like a big, jiggly force field!
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Old 27.06.2012, 21:45
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Re: fat bum

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Losing weight can be scary because you may have to deal with other things then too. Keeping the weight and associated lifestyle patterns is like sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalala. So when we make excuses we are really saying 'I'm not ready. I'm scared. What if the weight is not the problem? Who am I if I'm not the cheerful, helpful fat person?' The more you make us feel sh*t about our weight, the less we want to find out what else there may be that you could shoot at, as that would be something interior that may REALLY hurt. It's like a big, jiggly force field!
Very well said.
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Old 27.06.2012, 21:46
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Re: fat bum

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One thing I am (very unwillingly) realising is that you can have a 'need' to stay fat because it protects you. People are nasty to you because you are fat. Your life is not what you dreamt because you are fat. By being fat, you are less likely to attract genuine interest from the opposite sex and thus avoid the messy issue of letting someone get close. Some partners sabotage weight loss attempts because your low self esteem gives them power over you. And so on...

Losing weight can be scary because you may have to deal with other things then too. Keeping the weight and associated lifestyle patterns is like sticking your fingers in your ears and going lalala. So when we make excuses we are really saying 'I'm not ready. I'm scared. What if the weight is not the problem? Who am I if I'm not the cheerful, helpful fat person?' The more you make us feel sh*t about our weight, the less we want to find out what else there may be that you could shoot at, as that would be something interior that may REALLY hurt. It's like a big, jiggly force field!
I would like to add something at this point if no one mind. Kitt is a very very pretty woman. She is actually beautiful. I don't care what size she is, she looks hot anyway! I am 100% sure many will agree with me here.

She is a tall and beautiful woman, that's why people look at you honey! You know how to put your assets ahead and how to make it look good on you.

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Old 27.06.2012, 22:03
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Re: fat bum

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This is really a problem guys, because those shorts are too small for me (and I would never, ever wear lycra with my legs anyway) and I'm already reasonably fit.

To give you an idea of how real this issue is and also of what is considered "too fat to find clothes (well, anything that should also cover the lower part of my body) and fat enough to hear nasty comments" in Switzerland, voilà, me, BMI 31.5, thyroid that doesn't function, regular sessions of cortisone and wearing clothes that were all bought online, including the underwear (not in picture, obviously). And the reason I took the photo is that I was impressed at how two months of two to three times a week of Bodyrock had given me a fairly flat stomach.


Now I look at that and think, ok, definitely a bit bigger than ideal but not "oh my god, you disgusting, lazy fat person". And yet, I've had people make such comments, shop assistants looking at me with disdain if I dare ask for my size. I have always had to battle with my weight, ever since I first got put on an (unnecessary) diet at age 11. But yeah, you keep telling yourselves that it's ok to put others down, fat or thin. If that's how you increase your feeling of self-worth, I feel very sorry for you.

PS: Those trousers are thick cotton and hell to run in, hello heatstroke, if anyone knows of any sports shops in Germany (preferably Konstanz) that will cater to my Swiss size 48 behind and is not Ulla Popken (useless sports stuff and all too short), do tell.
I actually meant the other ones - the baggy ones.



These are size 48 but I've no idea whether that's too big or not big enough.

If you've got body image problems why would you want to wear the lycra ones?
  #259  
Old 27.06.2012, 22:07
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I actually meant the other ones - the baggy ones.



These are size 48 but I've no idea whether that's too big or not big enough.

If you've got body image problems why would you want to wear the lycra ones?
Also too small and too short. My thighs meet, if you get the idea...
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Old 27.06.2012, 22:10
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Also too small and too short. My thighs meet, if you get the idea...
Sorry - I don't think I'd make a good womens' clothers advisor so I'd better stop there.
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