Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
That's why medical advice is based on meta-analysis studies, and lab and clinical work rather than personal anecdote.
Huh? Is it wrong to be allowed to live a comfortable life, and to be able to die in peace?
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #182  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:25
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post

Personally, I have NO respect whatsoever for any "research" done by cancer organisations/big pharma/whatever ...... because I have personally experienced/seen with my own eyes/and heard from the mouths of people involved, that it is all a bunch of shite. There are simple cures for cancer, but they are not patentable, so they have no "worth".
What are these then?

There are lots of simple preventative measures to reduce the risks of some cancers such as not smoking, eating lots of fruit and vegetables, taking some exercise etc.
  #183  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:28
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Huh? Is it wrong to be allowed to live a comfortable life, and to be able to die in peace?
I think the point of this thread is about letting others live a comfortable life.

And I don't wish to scare you but most smokers who die of smoking-related cancers do not die in peace. I've heard from oncologists that it's really rather prolonged and unpleasant and not at all peaceful.
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #184  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I am - about those photos, until proved otherwise.
Please learn the difference between anecdotes and statistics. Individual cases prove nothing. The link between smoking and early death is proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Even JBZ isn't challenging that one.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #185  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I have NO respect whatsoever for any "research" done by cancer organisations/big pharma/whatever ...... because I have personally experienced/seen with my own eyes/and heard from the mouths of people involved, that it is all a bunch of shite. There are simple cures for cancer, but they are not patentable, so they have no "worth".
Man, I love the internet!
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #186  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:33
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
FOREST? Very unbiased I'm sure .
So the pubs are livelier than ever before, thronging with people inside and with a few desolate smokers left outside? Go out at ten and anyone can see the non-smokers haven't really embraced the opportunity as we were lead to believe, while regular and loyal customers have been forced out for a minority of bar goers who couldn't make their own places exciting or interesting enough to go to.
This user would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #187  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
What are these then?

There are lots of simple preventative measures to reduce the risks of some cancers such as not smoking, eating lots of fruit and vegetables, taking some exercise etc.
Well, I suppose they are not legitimate treatments - just desperate folk trying things that actually work. There are various "remedies" for different cancers, they require dedication and lots of work finding the ingredients, and the making of the solutions. I have a family member involved in that side of things, a professor, who would not take kindly to me blaring on a public forum. Especially one constituting members of Big Pharma!
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #188  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:35
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 549
Groaned at 58 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Well, I suppose they are not legitimate treatments - just desperate folk trying things that actually work. There are various "remedies" for different cancers, they require dedication and lots of work finding the ingredients, and the making of the solutions. I have a family member involved in that side of things, a professor, who would not take kindly to me blaring on a public forum. Especially one constituting members of Big Pharma!
how do you know? i mean ... isn't exhausting wasting effort speculating?
  #189  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:38
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Well, I suppose they are not legitimate treatments - just desperate folk sold crap by charlatans looking to make a quick buck.
Fixed that for you. Whatever you think of big pharma, alternative is worse.
The following 3 users would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #190  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
Please learn the difference between anecdotes and statistics. Individual cases prove nothing. The link between smoking and early death is proven beyond all reasonable doubt. Even JBZ isn't challenging that one.
At my advanced age I have begun to learn the difference between those two, I think? Statistics is something gleaned from a set amount of cases relating to what the statisticians are wanting/hoping to find? And anecdotes are actual real life happenings? Huh?

There is a link between driving a car and dying in an auto accident.
There is a link between getting in the way of a tram and losing your legs.
Going to sleep at night, house catching fire, you die in the fire - a link?

To me - going out for a meal in a restaurant, walking past a smoker, and then getting cancer, does not constitute a link.
Getting cancer is something different. Not like AIDs - we all know how you can get AIDs. We just gotta find that LINK between cancer and smoking? right?

But .... what about all my friends who never smoked who died from cancer?
The following 2 users would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #191  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Fixed that for you. Whatever you think of big pharma, alternative is worse.
No need to have fixed anything. There is no money involved, just information, and success.
  #192  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
how do you know? i mean ... isn't exhausting wasting effort speculating?
I think you are feeling tired? I don`t understand your writing. I am also tired, and going out to sit in the garden with a nice glass of ice-cold home-made gingerbeer - and take a break from this exhausting, but interesting and frustrating thread! Cheers!
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #193  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:56
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
No need to have fixed anything. There is no money involved, just information, and success.
Oh yeah, how does he make a living then? No money down, just buy my books, recommend me, but if it doesn't work for you, you're probably doing it wrong, we're not interested in failures, but I'll take your self described successes for glowing reviews.
  #194  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:56
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post

But .... what about all my friends who never smoked who died from cancer?
The way a doctor explained cancer to me was that certain people are pre-disposed to developing certain types of cancer. Patterns can emerge through generations but much of the research is going into isolating the genetic factors that predispose those people.

Add in an external "catalyst" which "switches on" the cancer and boom. If you are not predisposed to smoking related cancers, the chances are you won't develop it but smoking is an easily preventable "catalyst" if you don't want to play Russian roulette with a tumour.

It's the best explanation why some smokers develop cancer and others don't. My grandfather also lived until he was 93 after a lifetime of smoking unfiltered cigs.

A guy I worked with who was a chain smoker died of lung cancer at 53.

Go figure.
  #195  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:57
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,521
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,730 Times in 4,344 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
But .... what about all my friends who never smoked who died from cancer?
Yes, and I knew someone who lived to be 105 and smoked 30 a day...

Oh, sorry it was 50 they lived to not 105.

I now have had three dear friends who all died of cancer - long before they should have: they were all three only in midlife. What was the common bond between them? They all smoked. All three were, like you, determined the world was wrong and they would be just fine and dandy with tobacco - after all a whole global industry was on their side.

Pathetically they all quit as soon as the big C was diagnosed. They were dead within about 12 months. At least it was relatively quick, but even so the last weeks were so horrible that I simply cannot wish that kind of existence on my worst enemy. Go on believing that passive smoke is OK if you like, I don't want to take the risk - and I don't think anyone else should either...
__________________
**Triple vaxxed with Moderna plus 2021/22 season flu jab.**
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #196  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:59
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post

But .... what about all my friends who never smoked who died from cancer?
You describe cancer as one disease which really just shows your ignorance (to put it in bluntly)
  #197  
Old 21.08.2012, 21:49
sashimiso's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: riehen
Posts: 549
Groaned at 58 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 414 Times in 224 Posts
sashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputationsashimiso has an excellent reputation
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
But .... what about all my friends who never smoked who died from cancer?
You don't really mean this statement do you? I had cancer a little over 1.5 years ago... do you get an impression at all that I ever smoked? Cancer, lung cancer included is not limited to smoking.
  #198  
Old 21.08.2012, 22:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Back inside after my break ...... and I see lots of replies to my question, but no answers, just ramblings.

Funny hey? Cancer is not an isolated disease. Generations of pre-disposed to disease. All someone`s smoking friends died from cancer. Yabba yabba ....... and the presumption that the cures I mentioned are money making scams, from a regular poster whom I had thought could understand the written word, when obviously his brain got in the way, and he read what he wanted to read, not what was actually written?

So, back to my question. Howcome all the people I know who died from cancer were non-smokers? Not even their partners smoked. Strange hey?
This user would like to thank smoky for this useful post:
  #199  
Old 21.08.2012, 22:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,224
Groaned at 2,454 Times in 1,776 Posts
Thanked 39,323 Times in 18,535 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
Please....you are in denial.

For the record, I personally don't know anyone in old age who smoked throughout their life and never gave up who isn't dead from smoking-related diseases.
I do.

My great-aunt just turned 100 this summer, I was at her party.

Smoked her whole life.

Tom
  #200  
Old 21.08.2012, 23:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zurich Unterland
Posts: 3,315
Groaned at 145 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 4,850 Times in 1,930 Posts
smoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond reputesmoky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Quote:
View Post
I do.

My great-aunt just turned 100 this summer, I was at her party.

Smoked her whole life.

Tom
Now you are in denial. You just made that up! Like I made up all those stories about the old men in my village who dying - but they are not dying from their smoking - they are dying from boredom - since they can no longer gather around the Stammtisch with their old buddies and play Yass and smoke anymore! They`re stuck with their old wives at home, or alone if the OH has already kicked the bucket.
Closed Thread

Tags
health, non-smoker, referendum, restaraunts




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should we as non-smokers advise the police ? Wollishofener Complaints corner 254 19.09.2012 18:51
Chinese New Year 2012 ( 23.01.2012 Year of the Dragon ) bettomor Social events 4 08.01.2012 15:31
Sep 2012 Refugee Worker cum MBA Student gregd Introductions 4 07.01.2012 03:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0