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Old 30.08.2012, 10:06
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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But that's not the case. Instead smoking is something that creeps into your life very slowly and it takes a long time until you realize that it has become a habit.
And habits are hard to break whether they are related to a full-on addiction or not. I think this is another reason why it is so hard to quit smoking or drinking or any other bad habits. It's just such a part of your everyday life and often the lives of those you associate with.
  #342  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:20
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Are you addicted to anything? Anything you take in daily, that you feel you cannot live without? I`m asking that in a kindly motherly way, out of interest.
I was a smoker for 20 years, it wasn't easy to stop, but I did, and it certainly wasn't the hardest thing I've ever done. Currently I have a coffee addiction, but if I felt it were killing me and harming those around me, I'd quit that as well.
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  #343  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:28
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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I was a smoker for 20 years, it wasn't easy to stop, but I did, and it certainly wasn't the hardest thing I've ever done. Currently I have a coffee addiction, but if I felt it were killing me and harming those around me, I'd quit that as well.
In my experience, people who are addicted to coffee should just keep on drinking it. Keeps the homicide rates down, at least that's what my addicted friends tell me.
  #344  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:32
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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And habits are hard to break whether they are related to a full-on addiction or not. I think this is another reason why it is so hard to quit smoking or drinking or any other bad habits. It's just such a part of your everyday life and often the lives of those you associate with.
And that's why smoking bans are effective in preventing people starting and helping people stop.

The smoking is not so much in your face.
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  #345  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:36
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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And that's why smoking bans are effective in preventing people starting and helping people stop.

The smoking is not so much in your face.
Yeah, thanks so much for you help, anything you like I can help you to stop? We can do the same with the booze too.
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  #346  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:48
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Yeah, thanks so much for you help, anything you like I can help you to stop? We can do the same with the booze too.
It's one reason why they introduce the bans.

The same as reducing cigarette advertising etc.

It works.

Did you really think the bans are so they could punish you and make you cross?
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:50
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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It's one reason why they introduce the bans.

The same as reducing cigarette advertising etc.

It works.

Did you really think the bans are so they could punish you and make you cross?
No, I always thought it was driven by a bunch of puritans who'll move onto other vices next.
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  #348  
Old 30.08.2012, 10:55
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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No, I always thought it was driven by a bunch of puritans who'll move onto other vices next.
You'll probably have a hard time finding evidence for that.

I know oncologists and other doctors who have smoked. They don't do it because it's a cool vice, they do it because they are chemically addicted.

They still support smoking bans though.
  #349  
Old 30.08.2012, 12:03
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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No, I always thought it was driven by a bunch of puritans who'll move onto other vices next.
The current trend is liberalization of essentially all vices, smoking being the notable exception because it's remarkably stupid, harms and disturbs those around you, and is run by the most downright evil industry operating today.

While I would support a sweeping ban on smoking, I would also support the legalization of, say, eating pot brownies from a married gay hooker's ass, provided everyone involved consents. I don't consider myself a Puritan, just fed up with selfish, weak-willed smokers who have no consideration for others. I'm not willing to compromise with a group who's idea of compromise is that I inhale slightly less disgusting smoke than before.
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Old 30.08.2012, 12:09
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

But yet again even if I am also in favor of protecting non-smokers everything seems to be half solution. Either ban tobacco altogether or dont pretend to want to ban it but for example continue to receive taxes (~400% of the actual price of a cigarette) from smokers.
In the same stupid logic if i dont use a car why do we allow cars when we know that all the fumes we breath are highly carcinogenic?
You can make places for smokers and non-smokers..and it is everybody's choice where to go, also you may not allow smoking in places such as bus stops or train stations where people gather.
Everything else is a bit excessive...
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  #351  
Old 30.08.2012, 12:16
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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But yet again even if I am also in favor of protecting non-smokers everything seems to be half solution. Either ban tobacco altogether or dont pretend to want to ban it but for example continue to receive taxes (~400% of the actual price of a cigarette) from smokers.
It's a direct democracy here. A total ban is unlikely to have a chance of getting through so a vote for it would be a waste of everyone's time and money.
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Old 30.08.2012, 12:19
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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I don't consider myself a Puritan, just fed up with selfish, weak-willed smokers who have no consideration for others.
Sounds pretty puritan, must I be strong of will to overcome the weaknesses of the flesh?

I'm fed up with the selfish non smokers who chucked us out the bars and didn't even have the consideration to take up the empty spaces. Yeah sure, they all said they'd go out more, but turns out smokers are just scapegoats for people who don't get out as much as they'd like to imagine they would.
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  #353  
Old 30.08.2012, 12:24
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

I can see your point and even myself as an occasional smoker i support smoking bans and i try to reduce smoking.. but for example my opinion would be to treat cigarettes as heroine if it (people? state? health exprerts?) is considered to be as a harmful as they say. Then you don't necessarily need to do a voting procedure. In order to save lifes you don't need that.
P.S. I dont mind voting for anything, i just mind a bit the hypocrisy when it comes to the smoking issue...i.e. we allow it because it is a profitable business but on the other hand we make people aware that it makes harm to them and we try to implement a few bans...well would you accept something similar for drugs?

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It's a direct democracy here. A total ban is unlikely to have a chance of getting through so a vote for it would be a waste of everyone's time and money.
  #354  
Old 30.08.2012, 12:33
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Sounds pretty puritan, must I be strong of will to overcome the weaknesses of the flesh?

I'm fed up with the selfish non smokers who chucked us out the bars and didn't even have the consideration to take up the empty spaces. Yeah sure, they all said they'd go out more, but turns out smokers are just scapegoats for people who don't get out as much as they'd like to imagine they would.
All the smokers I know who have given up smoking over the last few years go to bars and restaurants as much, if not more than they did when they smoked.

They prefer the non-smoking places though.

They were once those die-hard smokers who seemed to once have exactly the same view as you.

They have realised that going out was still fun for eating, drinking and meeting friends and not to feed their addiction.

Bit like you, at the time they thought that without smoking, they would never be able to go out and enjoy themselves again.

To be honest, your attitude is a little bit 1980s and old-fashioned. It's hardly hip and cool.
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  #355  
Old 30.08.2012, 13:05
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Sounds pretty puritan, must I be strong of will to overcome the weaknesses of the flesh?

I'm fed up with the selfish non smokers who chucked us out the bars and didn't even have the consideration to take up the empty spaces. Yeah sure, they all said they'd go out more, but turns out smokers are just scapegoats for people who don't get out as much as they'd like to imagine they would.
They didn't chuck YOU out of bars, they prohibited you from setting things on fire and releasing toxic smoke into the air inside a public establishment. Your addiction is preventing you from enjoying an activity wholly unrelated to smoking. Bars are doing just fine, and smokers still drink as much as they used to, they might just moan a bit more that they have to drag their unhealthy asses 20 feet through a doorway every 15 minutes to smoke. Oh, the horror.

Incidentally, most smokers I know doesn't even smoke in their own house or apartment, they go outside. Were they chucked out of their own homes, too?

Last edited by Principia Discordia; 04.09.2012 at 22:51.
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  #356  
Old 30.08.2012, 15:52
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

I'm all for smoking being banned in restaurants and even some bars but being a former (and I have to admit I still have a puff every now and again) I think there should at least be a bar or two around where smokers go to hang out.

I was an unusual smoker though in the sense that I was EXTREMELY conscious of those around me and made it a point to go out of the way of non smokers to get my fix without bothering those around me who didn't. I find it quite rude for someone to light up next to someone else without any consideration for the other person.

That is one of the things that I am going to miss about the States. Just about every state now has banned smoking in public places and has banned smoking within 8 feet of the entrance (doesn't do much good to make smokers go outside to smoke if they are going to do it right outside the door).

Kinda hard for me now, not only living in a foreign land but trying to avoid stealing a smoke too with everyone outside in your face with their cigarettes.

I have to tell ya, there has been a couple of times already, and I've only been here a few days, where I have been so stressed out with everything that I have had to stop myself from running up to someone and ripping the cig right out of their hands and smoking it myself!! LOL!
  #357  
Old 30.08.2012, 19:59
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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.

What you have said is rather like saying that the internet should be banned because buying music online is destroying CD and record shops.
It is destroying the musicians and singers who make the music we enjoy. But we cannot ban the internet, can we?

Having written that, I`m trying to figure out the parallel here......? There is one, isn`t there?

We ban smoking inside and outside restaurants.
We destroy the restaurants, or a vast majority of them anyway.
But we all enjoy restaurants.
So, somehow, we have to reach a compromise.
Maybe smokers should pay more for what they consume? And this can then offset what the non-smokers pay?
Like, they get a discount on their food and drinks, for having put up with the whiffs of smoke outside upon entering and leaving?
So then the non-smokers get cheaper food/drinks AND a discount?
Would that make them happier?

Probably not. Ja, it`s a sad world.
  #358  
Old 30.08.2012, 20:07
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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The current trend is liberalization of essentially all vices, smoking being the notable exception because it's remarkably stupid, harms and disturbs those around you, and is run by the most downright evil industry operating today.

While I would support a sweeping ban on smoking, I would also support the legalization of, say, eating pot brownies from a married gay hooker's ass, provided everyone involved consents. I don't consider myself a Puritan, just fed up with selfish, weak-willed smokers who have no consideration for others. I'm not willing to compromise with a group who's idea of compromise is that I inhale slightly less disgusting smoke than before.
Aaahhh I love it! There is an old saying that goes something like this "There`s no-one as virtuous as an ex-whore" - same goes for ex-smokers. Similar to those religious fanatics who insist on only their own Path To Glory.
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  #359  
Old 30.08.2012, 20:13
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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And that's why smoking bans are effective in preventing people starting and helping people stop.

The smoking is not so much in your face.
Wasn`t alcohol banned in the USA once upon a time?
And what was the result of that banning?
Did it stop people from drinking?
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  #360  
Old 30.08.2012, 20:17
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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The current trend is liberalization of essentially all vices, smoking being the notable exception because it's remarkably stupid, harms and disturbs those around you, and is run by the most downright evil industry operating today.

While I would support a sweeping ban on smoking, I would also support the legalization of, say, eating pot brownies from a married gay hooker's ass, provided everyone involved consents. I don't consider myself a Puritan, just fed up with selfish, weak-willed smokers who have no consideration for others. I'm not willing to compromise with a group who's idea of compromise is that I inhale slightly less disgusting smoke than before.
Yes, this evil industry sponsored many sporting events.
What is going to support them now?

In South Africa, Gunston used to be the main sponsor of surfing competitions/events.
They were banned from sponsoring.
So .... who sponsors surfing now?
"Mr Price" - all their clothing comes from China, and the last I heard was that these clothing factories were/are using small children in their industry.
But it`s ok. At least it`s not an evil industry - it`s just not "in your face" - it`s faraway in another land.

Last edited by smoky; 30.08.2012 at 20:18. Reason: spelling error
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