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Old 17.08.2012, 17:30
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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It would be great for sure but in reality Im not sure it would work either.

When you want to go to a restaurant the question is Thai or Chinese? Now you are going to need Thai or Chinese smoking or non smoking is this place big enough for a smoking and non smoking version of all restaurants?
Why would you want separate restaurants? Two (or more) properly separated and ventilated dining rooms would do just fine.
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Old 17.08.2012, 18:11
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Good news from the pro-referendum side. According to a public poll, 59% of voters currently support the extension of the smoking ban initiative. I'm hoping that this hasn't peaked too early a full month before voting Sunday.

Here's your (German) link.
  #83  
Old 17.08.2012, 18:34
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Coming from the UK. I was amazed at how many people smoke in CH, it seems to be at least a 1/4 of the population. However, considering the big tobacco companies have there HQs in Vaud it is not surprising that the law is an ass and that so many people smoke.

A blanket advertising ban could be a start at reducing the exposure. A trip to a respiratory ward is something that could wake people up to the risks they are causing themselves and others by smoking. Solid thick yellow,green, brown mucus with blood in is something to be seen and smelt.

What would be really nice is to stop people from smoking in open public places especially outside the entrances of buildings including hospitals. To enter into a hospital the sick and dying must currently pass through a wall of smoke from the selfish so and sos who decide to spark up directly outside.

Rant over.

As for booze not having an effect on third parties, I would like to point out that whilst some people are able to drink with moderation and responsibility, there are those who can't.

Lives of third parties can be ruined for example by:

1.) drink driving
2.) the loss of loved ones through secondary causes of alcohol abuse eg liver disease (sadly at younger ages in the UK partly due to the cheap cost of alcohol)
3.) Domestic violence exacerbated by drinking
  #84  
Old 17.08.2012, 19:43
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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What would be really nice is to stop people from smoking in open public places especially outside the entrances of buildings including hospitals. To enter into a hospital the sick and dying must currently pass through a wall of smoke from the selfish so and sos who decide to spark up directly outside.
Come on, this is laying it on a bit thick.You've gone from people smoking in the open (which has no quantifiable secondary smoke risks - unlike the emission from, say, diesel vehicles), to the abuse of dying people. Why not shove a child on crutches through there and really start to demonize?

What you're saying is that you find the smell of tobacco smoke (anywhere) annoying and you want it to be banned. Well, we all do stuff that's annoying (for instance, I don't like being choked by clouds of vehicle smoke on my bicycle or being knocked over by 4x4s) but somehow we all have to live in tolerance.
  #85  
Old 18.08.2012, 10:33
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Coming from the UK. I was amazed at how many people smoke in CH, it seems to be at least a 1/4 of the population. However, considering the big tobacco companies have there HQs in Vaud it is not surprising that the law is an ass and that so many people smoke.

A blanket advertising ban could be a start at reducing the exposure. A trip to a respiratory ward is something that could wake people up to the risks they are causing themselves and others by smoking. Solid thick yellow,green, brown mucus with blood in is something to be seen and smelt.

What would be really nice is to stop people from smoking in open public places especially outside the entrances of buildings including hospitals. To enter into a hospital the sick and dying must currently pass through a wall of smoke from the selfish so and sos who decide to spark up directly outside.

Rant over.

As for booze not having an effect on third parties, I would like to point out that whilst some people are able to drink with moderation and responsibility, there are those who can't.

Lives of third parties can be ruined for example by:

1.) drink driving
2.) the loss of loved ones through secondary causes of alcohol abuse eg liver disease (sadly at younger ages in the UK partly due to the cheap cost of alcohol)
3.) Domestic violence exacerbated by drinking
Right you are with the share of smokers, which is close to 30%. It in the 1950ies was (among the adults) close to 60%, then gradually sank to below 25% and then, from the mid80ies, thanks (!) to the overdone anti-smoking campaigns rose to above 25%, and then stabilized somewhere between 25 and 30

Wrong however with the law. Many Cantons have quite good Cantonal ban laws. And whereever a Cantonal ban exists, the Cantonal law has precedence and fully applies. The following map shows the Cantons with Cantonal laws in green and that covers Zürich, Basel-Stadt, Bern and Geneva (and many others)


BUT many non-smokers in those Cantons where only the lame federal law exists had to make the expeirence that the status quo in unacceptable. And many people from Cantons like Zürich had to see this when visiting the other Cantons.

The habit of many smokers to "gather" at the top of escalators and at the exits of building like reception-committees may help the new law proposal to victory. It is a pity for the "Fumoirs" which were a good idea but will now disappear. Thanks (!) to the behaviours of the smokers !!

The politicians in the Cantonal governments who had to implement Cantonal bans apparently are majority-wise smokers and usually did everything to push holes into those laws, and the federal politicians were/are a lot worse. I hope, Bundesrat Berset has learnt his lesson. He was, practically from his start, one of the three most popular ones of the Federal government, but after declaring to be against the new law proposal dropped to last rank in a recent public opinion poll. He apparently had forgotten that the politicians and the restaurant-owners are NOT the people
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Old 20.08.2012, 14:28
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Come on. Your name is Smoky and look at your avatar. Maybe just a little bit biased?

.
I have read many a good book - which I would not have, if I`d judged it by it`s cover!
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  #87  
Old 20.08.2012, 15:46
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

California passed this ban in 1998. For such a "forward thinking" country, this is something Switzerland (and a lot of Europe) is behind in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ban

Can you vote for this if you have a B permit? If so, when and where can I vote. I understand both sides, but I hate seeing people light up and blow smoke on an infant at the train station. IMO, There should at least be designated smoking areas, like in Germany.
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Old 20.08.2012, 15:47
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Can you vote for this if you have a B permit?
No, you can only vote on such matters if you are Swiss.

Tom
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  #89  
Old 20.08.2012, 15:55
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

In that case, it probably won't pass. I was so surprised how many people here smoke when I moved here over 3 years ago, (and still do) I thought I was entering a different decade!
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  #90  
Old 20.08.2012, 15:58
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

I think they should introduce smoking on buses and in shops. That way people wont be so keen to get in your face.

Problem solved
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  #91  
Old 20.08.2012, 15:59
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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In that case, it probably won't pass. I was so surprised how many people here smoke when I moved here over 3 years ago, (and still do) I thought I was entering a different decade!
Yet Switzerland has the third highest life expectancy in the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

So I guess they must be doing something right.
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Yet Switzerland has the third highest life expectancy in the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy

So I guess they must be doing something right.
They're paying gazillions for medical care that a bunch of them wouldn't need if they hadn't smoked in the first place I presume. Levels of hygiene and medical coverage do a lot to improve life expectancy. Smoking isn't going to increase your longevity however you might care to twist and turn published statistics.
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:09
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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They're paying gazillions for medical care that a bunch of them wouldn't need if they hadn't smoked in the first place I presume. Levels of hygiene and medical coverage do a lot to improve life expectancy. Smoking isn't going to increase your longevity however you might care to twist and turn published statistics.
Passive smoking is not going to decrease it with the very same argument either.

See, I knew you understood really. You just dont like smoking
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:12
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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I think they should introduce smoking on buses and in shops. That way people wont be so keen to get in your face.

Problem solved
Oh, It`s just a "smoke-screen" for sheep to follow. GM foods, irradiated foods, fracking for gas, atmospheric disturbances, freakish mutations, crack-downs on organic farmers . . . . . . Don`t look, it may disturb you - just keep your eyes on second-hand cigarette smoke! Much easier, and gives you something to get really excited over.
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:16
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Oh, It`s just a "smoke-screen" for sheep to follow. GM foods, irradiated foods, fracking for gas, atmospheric disturbances, freakish mutations, crack-downs on organic farmers . . . . . . Don`t look, it may disturb you - just keep your eyes on second-hand cigarette smoke! Much easier, and gives you something to get really excited over.
Somebody has to think of the children
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:18
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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They're paying gazillions for medical care that a bunch of them wouldn't need if they hadn't smoked in the first place I presume. Levels of hygiene and medical coverage do a lot to improve life expectancy. Smoking isn't going to increase your longevity however you might care to twist and turn published statistics.
I'm not twisting anything - I just linked to some established (United Nations) data which seems to indicate that the Swiss can be fairly trusted to make their own decisions in health matters. Your post, in comparison, contained an unsubstantiated stream-of-thought-style opinion that you just blew out of your arse.

One opinion I do have, though, is that it's a bit rich for someone to come here from a (supposedly) first-world country (crfesi seems to be from the US) that's shockingly low on the life-expectancy list and complain that Swiss are somehow medieval when it comes to the health of their citizens.
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Old 20.08.2012, 16:39
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Oh, It`s just a "smoke-screen" for sheep to follow. GM foods, irradiated foods, fracking for gas, atmospheric disturbances, freakish mutations, crack-downs on organic farmers . . . . . . Don`t look, it may disturb you - just keep your eyes on second-hand cigarette smoke! Much easier, and gives you something to get really excited over.
You really need to stop reading the Daily Mail.

Ignoring passive smoking for the moment, nobody can disagree that smoking isn't bad for the health of the smoker.

Smoking is an incredibly difficult habit to stop.

Removing smoking from the public eye does make it easier for smokers who wish to stop to actually do so and continue to do so.
It also reduces the number of young people who may be inclined to start smoking.
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:04
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You really need to stop reading the Daily Mail.

Ignoring passive smoking for the moment, nobody can disagree that smoking isn't bad for the health of the smoker.

Smoking is an incredibly difficult habit to stop.

Removing smoking from the public eye does make it easier for smokers who wish to stop to actually do so and continue to do so.
It also reduces the number of young people who may be inclined to start smoking.
What`s the "Daily Mail"? Some foreign newspaper? No, I do not read that.

Lots of things are bad for the health of the non-smoker, maybe that`s why some folk smoke?......instead of hyper-ventilating from anxiety for the future - they just puff away those thoughts?

Yes! Smoking IS an incredibly difficult habit to stop! I agree 100%! It is more addictive than smoking Marijuana! Yet Marijuana is banned complety - and tobacco cigarettes are freely available, at a monetary cost. Confusing isn`t it?

Anyway, when all smoking is banned - like alcohol was in the States in Al Capone`s days - then everyone will be happy .... again ......until something else surfaces to worry about - like, maybe, alcohol should be banned too, to distract the public from getting serious about birth defects/cancers/tumours/mutations/inability of full-term gestations?

Brave New World ... here we come! (with a daily dose of happy drug, sanctioned & free from the state? - you just do your work and let Big Papa take care of you all? and tell you what to think?)
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:10
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You really need to stop reading the Daily Mail.

Ignoring passive smoking for the moment, nobody can disagree that smoking isn't bad for the health of the smoker.

Smoking is an incredibly difficult habit to stop.

Removing smoking from the public eye does make it easier for smokers who wish to stop to actually do so and continue to do so.
It also reduces the number of young people who may be inclined to start smoking.
Why does this logic not apply to fat people? They have tried and tried, but people are still getting really fat.

I prefer smokers over fat people, both smell, but I get more of a seat and less sweat.
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Old 20.08.2012, 17:12
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Passive smoking is not going to decrease it with the very same argument either.

See, I knew you understood really. You just dont like smoking
here we are again... we all know already that passive smoking is harmful but yet, fact-less banter continues....

hopefully, the day will come when it is no longer legal to smoke and you have to stop or face fines.

yes, only the Swiss can vote on the measure, we all know this. So, it will be difficult to get a ban passed, but, there is always hope. Sooner or later the smokers will get sicker and sicker and unable to make it out to vote.

in the meantime, I would appreciate it if all of you smokers brought a giant trash bag with you and every time you wanted to smoke, you pulled the bag over your head, then pulled it tight around your waste... then, stand there looking foolish and smoke it up. When you are done, keep the bag on until the air inside is clean again. Thank you for taking these measures in advance.
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