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  #121  
Old 20.08.2012, 19:55
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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No no. I live in Basel, you live in Zürich. Some establishments in Basel have made "good use" of a loophole within the smoking ban.

Private "Smoking Only" Clubs

Maybe you're missing out on this "joy" in Zürich?
Soooo? What is wrong with a bunch of smokers enjoying their Smoking Clubs?
Do the non-smokers also want to go in there?
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  #122  
Old 20.08.2012, 20:16
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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the difference, you clearly are failing to see is... many fat people have the same addition problems .........
You cant fail to see them and you're right about something, they do have addition problems
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  #123  
Old 20.08.2012, 20:24
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Soooo? What is wrong with a bunch of smokers enjoying their Smoking Clubs?
Do the non-smokers also want to go in there?
Do you only have smoking or non smoking friends?

I surely have a mixture. I go to the smoking clubs with my smoking friends, but I know I'll have a price to pay.

BUT that's neither here nor there - you behaved as if I were an idiot for suggesting that there is still smoking in restaurants. I'm not an idiot, you're just ignorant, now you know and you're less ignorant.

(Still a bit of a jerk about fat people, but hey, everybody needs to have their thing.)
  #124  
Old 20.08.2012, 20:55
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Nicotine is very addictive and causes irrational behaviour.

The other day at the Zurich airport I saw someone prop the door to a fumoir open. I asked why. "Because it stinks in there".

As one poster said, smokers know that it is bad for their health, but they continue despite warnings and in some places very graphic images. They will smoke in cars with infants (something that is an offence in some countries).

Bans do help. Having to go outdoors (away from the doors and building ventilation) in the rain and heat and cold makes smoking less convenient and increases the willingness to quit. Increasing taxes and using them to subsidize cessation programs helps reduce teenage adoption and helps those who want to stop.

It will take a long time but smoking rates are down from the 1960's.
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  #125  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:08
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You cant fail to see them and you're right about something, they do have addition problems
Yea, that's simply not true. I've interviewed many candidates in the course of my job and give quite a tough test involving programming and mathematics; I haven't seen any evidence that arithmetic skills are correlated with weight...
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  #126  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:10
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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That's simply not true. I've interviewed many candidates in the course of my job and give quite a tough test involving programming and mathematics; I haven't seen any evidence that arithmetic skills are correlated with weight...
It is unclear whether you have misunderstood the world play humour based on sashimos typo or countered with humour of your own.

I will give you benefit of the doubt and assume the latter
  #127  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:25
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

It's really funny, I googled "what do trolls eat" and the first response I got was "They eat away at people's nerves and patience with their mean, rude, immature, and stupid answers and harassment". I do believe this requirement is now fulfilled, thank you. But I digress, almost to the same level and I, therefore, move on

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Here we go again, more nonsense from the Sash. Did another 30 year expert give you all this good stuff to drivel about?
This, is taken completely out of context but, the facts have already been provided showing how harmful 2nd hand smoke is. I cannot force anyone to believe it, but it has been proven time, and time again, and only those who smoke do not wish to agree (but not all).


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So and so told me something and you know nothing bla bla bla. They know more cause it said they are an expert and they have 30 years experience, and they have a website and a book bla bla bla
I based my information on Cancer.org. I presume you have read the entire thread, correct? If so, you would have noticed this quite a while back. No one told me directly any information about 2nd hand smoke, but I did manage to take some time, and read up on it before I made the assertion.

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Keep hoping sweety pie.
For???? What would it be I am hoping for besides a world where smoking didn't exist, and not just for me, but for you as well. I am sad that you smoke and cannot get away from such a habit, sincerely.

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"Sicker and sicker", you have a really warped mind of what happens to a small fraction of smokers. The irony being, seeing as you didnt like my fat comment, is the smokers are more mobile than the fatties, lol
Can you show me some evidence to the "small fraction" in which you reference?

And, it isn't that I didn't like your fat comment, though "fatties" speaks for itself, and well, if the shoe fits.. but, it was because you were making a comparison between two things that are completely unrelated outside of addiction.

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I am not sure whats funnier, your gullible nature or the fact you think the air is clean when cigarette smoke isnt around.
Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never asserted or implied the air is clean, but yes, without the smoke, it is cleaner where I breathe. That is an obvious fact.

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Do go read those studies, maybe you can learn something yourself, instead of believing what you are told al the time
You must feel dizzy from all the eye rolling you have done in these posts. See above, I have done a lot of reading on this subject, and nope, it still doesn't make me an expert, but well informed, which is good enough for me.

Frankly, all trolling aside, I am sorry that smoking is such a horrible habit and what I presume, extremely hard habit to break. In all of my life, I have not met a smoker who quit and said, wow, that was a bad decision to quit, I am going to start right back up.
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  #128  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:27
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You cant fail to see them and you're right about something, they do have addition problems
well, you finally got me with an auto-correct on my iPad... it is undeniably true, I must now be completely discounted.
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  #129  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:31
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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It is unclear whether you have misunderstood the world play humour based on sashimos typo or countered with humour of your own.

I will give you benefit of the doubt and assume the latter
With me, always assume the most complicated explanation. (Kind of inverse Occam's Razor...).
  #130  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:31
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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But its not, so pointless argument
so you're rubber and I'm glue? really, is that your answer to the question? Or, you just do not wish to answer the question because you're right and I'm wrong?
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  #131  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:41
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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And here we get to the issue: you want smoking banned because the smell of smoke annoys you. It annoys me as well and I prefer to be in non-smoking bars and restaurants; but last time I looked (that would be last night...), there are plenty of options already in Switzerland for that. Can't we just have some tolerance for other people's lifestyles?

As to other posts about the risks of second-hand smoke (and in the open, this risk is totally non-quantifiable), let me play another game (I'm talking to sashimiso here): would you stop driving if there was risk that you if didn't you might a kill a child?
You're right. I actually don't want tolerance on this issue, it's true. And it's because there can't be a reason for anyone to have to smoke, other for the fact that they think it's their right to exercise their addiction as a freedom, or for the sake of "enjoyment". I'll never understand that, like ever.
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  #132  
Old 20.08.2012, 21:54
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You're right. I actually don't want tolerance on this issue, it's true. And it's because there can't be a reason for anyone to have to smoke, other for the fact that they think it's their right to exercise their addiction as a freedom, or for the sake of "enjoyment". I'll never understand that, like ever.
Says it all.
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  #133  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:13
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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In that case, it probably won't pass. I was so surprised how many people here smoke when I moved here over 3 years ago, (and still do) I thought I was entering a different decade!
A) A recent opinion poll showed that it most likely WILL pass
B) You by error assume that a majority of foreigners in Switzerland are NON-smokers, while reality is rather different. People from former Yugoslavia etc smoke quite heavily
C) I do not know your comparison base. The share of smokers (among adults) here is clearly less than 30%, while it in Southern France is above 40 or even 50 percent. Looking to the U.K. and pubs there I think that the share of smokers is comparable to Switzerland or even higher.
D) another decade ? Imagine that the share of smokers among adults in the 1950ies and 60ies was above 50% and now is below 30%. It in Italy was well around 70%, in France around 60%. Came down in both countries to by average below 50%.
  #134  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:18
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Personally, I've always like the smell of tobacco.

Have never found cigarettes interesting, nor addictive, however, so I rely on others to stink up the place!

Tom
  #135  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:19
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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A) A recent opinion poll showed that it most likely WILL pass
Not really, they also point out that this is often the case a month before a failed vote.

And our four votes will be NO!

Tom
  #136  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:29
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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It's really funny, I googled "what do trolls eat" and the first response I got was "They eat away at people's nerves and patience with their mean, rude, immature, and stupid answers and harassment". I do believe this requirement is now fulfilled, thank you. But I digress, almost to the same level and I, therefore, move on



This, is taken completely out of context but, the facts have already been provided showing how harmful 2nd hand smoke is. I cannot force anyone to believe it, but it has been proven time, and time again, and only those who smoke do not wish to agree (but not all).




I based my information on Cancer.org. I presume you have read the entire thread, correct? If so, you would have noticed this quite a while back. No one told me directly any information about 2nd hand smoke, but I did manage to take some time, and read up on it before I made the assertion.



For???? What would it be I am hoping for besides a world where smoking didn't exist, and not just for me, but for you as well. I am sad that you smoke and cannot get away from such a habit, sincerely.



Can you show me some evidence to the "small fraction" in which you reference?

And, it isn't that I didn't like your fat comment, though "fatties" speaks for itself, and well, if the shoe fits.. but, it was because you were making a comparison between two things that are completely unrelated outside of addiction.



Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never asserted or implied the air is clean, but yes, without the smoke, it is cleaner where I breathe. That is an obvious fact.



You must feel dizzy from all the eye rolling you have done in these posts. See above, I have done a lot of reading on this subject, and nope, it still doesn't make me an expert, but well informed, which is good enough for me.

Frankly, all trolling aside, I am sorry that smoking is such a horrible habit and what I presume, extremely hard habit to break. In all of my life, I have not met a smoker who quit and said, wow, that was a bad decision to quit, I am going to start right back up.
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so you're rubber and I'm glue? really, is that your answer to the question? Or, you just do not wish to answer the question because you're right and I'm wrong?
Analysis:

1st Paragraph: waffle

2nd: actually they haven't. Which is why I have encouraged you time and again to read the ACTUAL studies. But you refuse. So enough said. You prefer to be spoon fed.

3rd: as per above, I based mine on the studies, not 2nd or 3rd parties. The source.

4th: precisely, not going to happen. You say it like we're enslaved live Jews in z nazi concentration camp. Like we all regret the day we started smoking and are fighting the battle. We're not, we enjoy it.

5th: already did in the other thread on the subject, i have to repeat myself too much with you. Circle back, you'll be surprised.

6th: not really. When you understand about passive smoke you will understand the comparison is very relevant. Arguably fat people cost society more with health issues to be frank.

7th: nope. It's easy when someone puts their foot in it over and over

8th: maybe some appreciate that. Most prob don't care. It's a choice I made and live with and not tried to break and my life is great.

Oh no rubber or glue, it's just a non argument. As stated. From the source incase you forgot......again
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  #137  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:31
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Not really, they also point out that this is often the case a month before a failed vote.

And our four votes will be NO!

Tom
difficult to say. My personal forecast before seeing the results of that opiinion poll was a NO. I expect a narrow result, possibly 51% YES and a YES majority of one or two cantons.

With all the "ex-Yugos" it would be a definite 55% NO
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  #138  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:34
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Analysis:

1st Paragraph: waffle

2nd: actually they haven't. Which is why I have encouraged you time and again to read the ACTUAL studies. But you refuse. So enough said. You prefer to be spoon fed.

3rd: as per above, I based mine on the studies, not 2nd or 3rd parties. The source.

4th: precisely, not going to happen. You say it like we're enslaved live Jews in z nazi concentration camp. Like we all regret the day we started smoking and are fighting the battle. We're not, wie enjoy it.

5th: already did in the other thread on the subject, i have to repeat mysekf too much with you. Circle back, you'll be surprised.

6th: not really. When you understand about passive smoke you will understand the comparison is very relevant. Arguably fat people cost society more with health issues to be frank.

7th: nope. It's easy when someone puts their foot in it over and over

8th: maybe some appreciate that. Most prob don't care. It's a choice I made and live with and not tried to break and my life is great.

I wonder if I should point out your typos and make fun of such trivial things....

Since when is cancer.org a 2nd 3rd party resource? Now that is funny

The rest, just more useless fingerprinting instead of getting to the facts.

And I ask the question of you as well, though it was meant for all smokers the last time I asked ...

If it was proven that second hand smoke was harmful to others, would you still smoke around them?
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  #139  
Old 20.08.2012, 22:38
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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....again
Guess I was fast enough to reply and leave those in before you went back and edited...

Are you married and if so, have kids?
  #140  
Old 20.08.2012, 23:19
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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You're right. I actually don't want tolerance on this issue, it's true. And it's because there can't be a reason for anyone to have to smoke, other for the fact that they think it's their right to exercise their addiction as a freedom, or for the sake of "enjoyment". I'll never understand that, like ever.
Yes, this is about freedom. I don't like the smell of smoke but I hope smoking will never be completely banned and fined.

You like that Switzerland doesn't patronize its citizens and I think that the smoking issue is "the other side of the same coin".

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