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  #161  
Old 21.08.2012, 16:09
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Ok... some real facts.. and frankly, I am starting to see that no matter how much data is provided to those who think 2nd hand smoke isn't harmful, the truth will never be accepted.

Below are some references by the Mayo Clinic, and the Cleveland Clinic, both of which providing scientific evidence to 2nd hand smoke and the dangers.

Then, in fairness, I found a commonly referenced, and published position that 2nd hand smoke isn't harmful which, I then found multiple sources showing the flaws and shortcomings in these findings.

But before I point out these facts, I don't mind the debating, I don't mind the valueless back and forth, and at some point, I do find it entertaining. But, what I do mind is the lack of willingness to even listen to points of view other than ones own. It is very disappointing, but not at all surprising, that when one is attacked for his/her want to continue to do harmful things because he or she believes it is ok, he or she will be quite defensive. This is clearly the case here and that, to me, is the biggest crime. If one is unable to evolve, then one cannot possibly see truths brought forth by others. But, I guess if you already know everything and are always right, well, that doesn't matter much anyway............................ right?

Mayo Clinic



Cleveland Clinic



Heartlander.


and I repeat the conclusion



Any questions?

I do find it somewhat hilarious that you have done it again. I genuinely cant believe you have done it again to be honest. What is funnier is you have spent some considerable time going about trying to make your point, when you haven't even understood, again, where to pull the facts from.

You have gone to discussion websites, commentary websites who detailing half truths for the agenda they want to put across.

Read the studies. The actual data. How many times do I have to say that.

I'll give you an example to what you are basically doing.

Sashimo Logic Clinic
Radiation: Avoid dangers in the air
What is radiation:
is a process in which energetic particles or waves travel through a medium or space.emitted from mobiles phones, telephone masks, and is generally all around us etc etc
Radiation is in;
Atomic Bombs See: Hiroshima.
Conclusion:
Because of mobile phones and the fact they omit radiation, beware people near you talking on mobile or any device that omits radiation. Radiation kills, causes cancer, and birth defects.. You could end up like this from the radiation:




Any questions?
__________________
Small minds are concerned with the extraordinary, great minds with the ordinary, Blaise Pascal
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  #162  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:04
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Re various

The smoking ban has been terrible for hospitality, FOREST showed this. On the studies I suggest a reading of Sean Gabbs book, "Smoking,Class and the Legitimisation of Power"
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  #163  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:19
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Re various

The smoking ban has been terrible for hospitality, FOREST showed this. On the studies I suggest a reading of Sean Gabbs book, "Smoking,Class and the Legitimisation of Power"
But good for the health of those who work in hospitality, especially bar workers:

Quote:
One study analysed 55 studies from around the world found that non-smoking spouses of people who smoke at home have 27% higher risks of lung cancer. 73 And a review of 22 studies found that people exposed to second-hand smoke in the workplace have 24% higher risks of lung cancer. Those who were exposed to the highest levels of second-hand smoke at work had twice the risks of lung cancer.
Here
  #164  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:31
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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But good for the health of those who work in hospitality, especially bar workers:



Here
If they still have a job....
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  #165  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:32
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Well, I think that they must have done chemical tests which produced said results. No?
Goshy goodness! How on earth did all those chemicals get into the cigarettes in the first place? ..... and then how did they escape the purifying lungs from which they were exhaled?

Are you absolutely sure that they were analysing fumes from cigarettes? Not busses or industrial machinery?

Well, in my house we ONLY use BIO tobacco - none of that stuff in there! Straight from the farmers drying shed to my house.

No wonder all those cigarette packets have those horrible pictures on them. Another thought here: Are we all SURE those photos are from "cancer" caused by cigarette smoke? .... you know, with all the scammy things that go with stuff like Photoshop around these days? ..... just a thought? Cause of all the people I`ve known for over half a century, who smoked, no-one ever came up with "diseases" looking like that?
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  #166  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:36
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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How on earth did all those chemicals get into the cigarettes in the first place?
Well, from the ground, of course.

And, since tobacco is a nightshade, same as tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, etc., you can be sure to find the exact same chemicals in those too!

And I LOVE smoked peppers!

Tom
  #167  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:42
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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<snip>

Gladly, if I can institute a new one... Anyone who thinks like this must renounce their citizenship, forfeit their permit, whatever, then, take the next train to Clarksville.
So because I disagree with you I must face a descent into name calling and leave the country?

Re the UK figures see here

http://www.amendthesmokingban.com/
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  #168  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:45
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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No wonder all those cigarette packets have those horrible pictures on them. Another thought here: Are we all SURE those photos are from "cancer" caused by cigarette smoke? .... you know, with all the scammy things that go with stuff like Photoshop around these days? ..... just a thought? Cause of all the people I`ve known for over half a century, who smoked, no-one ever came up with "diseases" looking like that?
Please....you are in denial.

For the record, I personally don't know anyone in old age who smoked throughout their life and never gave up who isn't dead from smoking-related diseases.
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  #169  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:48
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

Actually, I totally agree with the ranters here about the stink of cigarettes.

It is the BOUGHT ready rolled cigarettes that stink. They realy do!

Cigars, pipes, and hand-rolled ciggies from air-dried tobacco have no after-stink. Seriously!

But on another tack, an interesting one, last time we had a festival in our village ....... There was one big tent where they were playing really good music, it was packed with people enjoying themselves, drinking beer/wine, and so we decided we`d go in there.

Aaaaahhhhhhh!...the STINK! Not cigarettes. No smoking allowed. It was the stench of BODIES! Until now, I never realised how much cigarette smoke disguised the stink of bodies ..... whether perfumed, washed, or not ..... they stank! The air was un-breathable. We only got a meter inside and had to retreat, to find a nice clean outdoor pub, where we could smell the wafting smoke, diluted with fresh air!
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  #170  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:50
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Please....you are in denial.

For the record, I personally don't know anyone in old age who smoked throughout their life and never gave up who isn't dead from smoking-related diseases.
For the record, I personally, and nor does the world as we know it, know anyone in old age or younger, who has been subjected to passive smoke throughout their life, and never avoided it, who is dead from smoking related diseases.
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  #171  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:52
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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I do find it somewhat hilarious that you have done it again. I genuinely cant believe you have done it again to be honest. What is funnier is you have spent some considerable time going about trying to make your point, when you haven't even understood, again, where to pull the facts from.

You have gone to discussion websites, commentary websites who detailing half truths for the agenda they want to put across.

Read the studies. The actual data. How many times do I have to say that.

I'll give you an example to what you are basically doing.

Sashimo Logic Clinic
Radiation: Avoid dangers in the air
What is radiation:
is a process in which energetic particles or waves travel through a medium or space.emitted from mobiles phones, telephone masks, and is generally all around us etc etc
Radiation is in;
Atomic Bombs See: Hiroshima.
Conclusion:
Because of mobile phones and the fact they omit radiation, beware people near you talking on mobile or any device that omits radiation. Radiation kills, causes cancer, and birth defects.. You could end up like this from the radiation:



Any questions?
no questions, you are a moron, plain and simple ... there is an expression that my friends and I use in such instances foffdhawjof*

nothing like exploiting others in your pursuit of being an arsehole (meaning the picture you attached to the thread)

i doubt there are many as stupid either... calling places like Mayo Clinic a discussion thread... let me ask you, what have you accomplished in life dropping out of school in the 3rd grade

_ + | + _ do the math
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  #172  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:55
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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So because I disagree with you I must face a descent into name calling and leave the country?

Re the UK figures see here

http://www.amendthesmokingban.com/
no... it was because you pulled a parallel of hitler into the conversation... and because it was the most ridiculous argument I have seen date, only equaled by the arseholeo
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  #173  
Old 21.08.2012, 17:57
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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For the record, I personally, and nor does the world as we know it, know anyone in old age or younger, who has been subjected to passive smoke throughout their life, and never avoided it, who is dead from smoking related diseases.
Didn't you read the link in my post?
  #174  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:03
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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no questions, you are a moron, plain and simple ... there is an expression that my friends and I use in such instances foffdhawjof*

nothing like exploiting others in your pursuit of being an arsehole (meaning the picture you attached to the thread)

i doubt there are many as stupid either... calling places like Mayo Clinic a discussion thread... let me ask you, what have you accomplished in life dropping out of school in the 3rd grade _ + | + _ do the math
I rest my case.

Unable to face the facts, when the reality of the situation is put in a simple enough term for you to finally understand.

What have I accomplished, I am not sure what that has to do with anything. But, i'll take a guess, a bit more than you thus far
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Old 21.08.2012, 18:04
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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no... it was because you pulled a parallel of hitler into the conversation... and because it was the most ridiculous argument I have seen date, only equaled by the arseholeo
The argument on the use of "easy" targets to justify state intervention in private lives along with the hoards that are employed to enforce the intervention is valid. Like I say a slippery slope. You should read the book
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  #176  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:09
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Please....you are in denial.

For the record, I personally don't know anyone in old age who smoked throughout their life and never gave up who isn't dead from smoking-related diseases.
Maybe I am - about those photos, until proved otherwise.

Oh I know LOTS of old smokers who are still alive. Of the ones who died smoking ....one old guy of 88 who began smoking when he was 8, I think he finally died at about 93, two months after his wife died. He said he wanted to be with her.

My friends grandfather here, smoked till he was 94, died couple years back - after taking ill, only lasted 2 weeks of delightful home nursing and he died with his stogie (cigar) in his mouth. No real cause. They did find a bit of cancer though, and some disease in his eyes that would have finally blinded him if he`d lived longer, a few other unintelligable medical terms were mentioned, which hèd picked up from his years of hard work in the forests and fire department. But basically, he died of old age, and happy to have lived so long.

Another 96 yr old smoker who was still driving his little "go-kart" around the place - finally he just had to be incarcerated in the old-age home.

All my non-smoking friends began dying from the ages of about 40 up to now, from cancers. ..... lungs, stomach, leukeumia, skin cancers, different internal organs, brain. Now I`m on my 2nd friend with brain cancer, only a short time to go for her now. ALL NON SMOKERS.

Oh, and yesterday I heard about a near neighbor who died last week from cancer - only 50, non-smoker, she died 2 weeks after diagnosis.

Ja. Seeming to me that life can be pretty dangerous huh?

Now I`m rather busy trying to protect my house from the poison sprays the wine farmers are using against mildew up the hill - it causes a terrible sinus infection! But it`s legal, at least. Every morning they drive up there with their tractors lugging huge containers of poison sprays. Since Spring it`s been a mildew retardant, and now it`s copper. But it`s okay. Because they are allowed to spray even though it drifts down over the houses. And it`s not yet been investigated into about whether it`s carcinogenous, or not.
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Old 21.08.2012, 18:16
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Re various

The smoking ban has been terrible for hospitality, FOREST showed this. On the studies I suggest a reading of Sean Gabbs book, "Smoking,Class and the Legitimisation of Power"
FOREST? Very unbiased I'm sure .
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Old 21.08.2012, 18:19
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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Oh I know LOTS of old smokers who are still alive. Of the ones who died smoking ....one old guy of 88 who began smoking when he was 8, I think he finally died at about 93, two months after his wife died. He said he wanted to be with her.

My friends grandfather here, smoked till he was 94, died couple years back - after taking ill, only lasted 2 weeks of delightful home nursing and he died with his stogie (cigar) in his mouth. No real cause. They did find a bit of cancer though, and some disease in his eyes that would have finally blinded him if he`d lived longer, a few other unintelligable medical terms were mentioned, which hèd picked up from his years of hard work in the forests and fire department. But basically, he died of old age, and happy to have lived so long.

Another 96 yr old smoker who was still driving his little "go-kart" around the place - finally he just had to be incarcerated in the old-age home.

All my non-smoking friends began dying from the ages of about 40 up to now, from cancers. ..... lungs, stomach, leukeumia, skin cancers, different internal organs, brain. Now I`m on my 2nd friend with brain cancer, only a short time to go for her now. ALL NON SMOKERS.

Oh, and yesterday I heard about a near neighbor who died last week from cancer - only 50, non-smoker, she died 2 weeks after diagnosis.
That's why medical advice is based on meta-analysis studies, and lab and clinical work rather than personal anecdote.
  #179  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:21
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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no questions, you are a moron, plain and simple ... there is an expression that my friends and I use in such instances foffdhawjof*

nothing like exploiting others in your pursuit of being an arsehole (meaning the picture you attached to the thread)

i doubt there are many as stupid either... calling places like Mayo Clinic a discussion thread... let me ask you, what have you accomplished in life dropping out of school in the 3rd grade

_ + | + _ do the math
I was reading your posts with something close, just close, to respect. But now I see I was wrong?

When losing an argument, or faced with contradictions, tis not classy to sink into bad language and begin calling fellow forum members derogatory names.

Better to stick with facts, as you know them, and allow others their opinions.

When others have high opinions of institutions, which differ from one`s own opinions, or visa versa, there can be no middle ground. Better to stick to your own level, if you are happy sitting there.

Personally, I have NO respect whatsoever for any "research" done by cancer organisations/big pharma/whatever ...... because I have personally experienced/seen with my own eyes/and heard from the mouths of people involved, that it is all a bunch of shite. There are simple cures for cancer, but they are not patentable, so they have no "worth".

Better you all believe the "easy target" theory - to distract yourselves from reality.
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  #180  
Old 21.08.2012, 18:22
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Re: Protecting Non-smokers - Referendum Sep 23, 2012

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I rest my case.

Unable to face the facts, when the reality of the situation is put in a simple enough term for you to finally understand.

What have I accomplished, I am not sure what that has to do with anything. But, i'll take a guess, a bit more than you thus far
no, all you proved is you are what you are. I was not pissed once until you took someone with a physical deformity and used it for your own awjoff stupidity.

you are beyond offensive and really, i suppose it is your stupidity I should almost just accept... but I won't
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