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  #61  
Old 12.08.2012, 23:29
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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So the unibombers parents are the reason he made bombs and blew up people because he didn't believe in their business practices too?? Really, you want to tie the actions of a grown adult to his parents and say anything good they said or did now becomes invalid?
You seem to be fine with tying up all form of physical discipline into one horrible condemnable thing. Sorry, but it's NOT. Interesting thread though, you were bound to get plenty of reactions on this subject.
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Old 12.08.2012, 23:45
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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I think that if one of my children grew up to be a child pornographer or a serial killer, I would feel more than a little bit responsible.
That is something you need to work out then, but it doesn't make it your fault, it just doesn't make sense, unless you encourage such behaviors? And yes, you might feel responsible, but it doesn't make you responsible
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Old 12.08.2012, 23:47
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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You seem to be fine with tying up all form of physical discipline into one horrible condemnable thing. Sorry, but it's NOT. Interesting thread though, you were bound to get plenty of reactions on this subject.
Thank you for your analysis dr. Abrsive... Or is that "r" misspelled for something more obvious?
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  #64  
Old 12.08.2012, 23:54
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

You are welcome sashimiso, and the "r" is perfectly spelled for no reason whatsoever.

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Thank you for your analysis dr. Abrsive... Or is that "r" misspelled for something more obvious?
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Old 12.08.2012, 23:59
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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That is something you need to work out then, but it doesn't make it your fault, it just doesn't make sense, unless you encourage such behaviors? And yes, you might feel responsible, but it doesn't make you responsible
encourage such behaviors? my sons would get the beating of their lives for far less egregious behavior, I leave "timeouts" or "taking away privileges" to their mother.

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  #66  
Old 13.08.2012, 01:35
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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I think that if one of my children grew up to be a child pornographer or a serial killer, I would feel more than a little bit responsible.
Ah, the joys of being a parent. You feel responsible for whatever they do - good or bad. Nothing new there.
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Old 13.08.2012, 01:36
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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So, was the person in question using a baseball bat or similar implement?

Did the child need to go to hospital?

Otherwise, GROSS exaggeration on your part.

Tom
Remember..you weren't there know all. Punching with knuckles in the head (a sensitive area anyway) pushing, slapping towards a stone floor in my view is how I described it in the title. Or is a stone floor not quite hard enough for a child to be beaten to for you?

It was shocking, the boy expression on his face had a look of being abused, he wasn't even screaming or anything, embarassed. I would have elaborated in my original post but didn't because it is still sinking in.

Your comments really prove some people on here will base serious things they say on no fact at all, amazing.
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Old 13.08.2012, 01:43
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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Your comments really prove some people on here will base serious things they say on no fact at all, amazing.
Unfortunately that's the risk you take posting a serious issue to a public forum with not much information in the opening post. Most people will base the things they write purely on what they read here. What else can they do?
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Old 13.08.2012, 02:43
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

I also hate hitting in any form because I was battered as a kid and into my late teens. It takes a lot of control not to hit, so maybe those parents who weren't really and truly hit by their parents cant see the problem as those that were.
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Old 13.08.2012, 07:27
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

I have three children and when they were small and put theirselves in danger they occasionally got a smack on their pampers. You can explain toddlers anything you want, but they simply don't understand you when give them "adult" reasons and tell them not to touch the stove because it hurts. Sometimes they have to make the experience that it does hurt.
Once and only once I beat up one of my children. My eldest was five when she decided to jump into the lake dispite all warnings and of course without knowing how to swim. I had to fish her out and I still remember that my heart stopped beating until I realised that she was save. My reaction was immediate and I couldn't stop myself. I am certainly not proud of it but at least it taught her the lesson.

Last edited by simplon; 13.08.2012 at 10:15.
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Old 13.08.2012, 07:41
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

Good thing you did. If a 5 year old didnt understand warnings and just did something, then she would probably do it again after being told off. Its like a game really. "Ha ha i jumped in when i wasnt supposed to and i got fished out. Where can i jump next?" But "sh*t i jumped in when i wasnt supposed to and now i cant sit for a week. Im not doing that again"

And even for people who would never hit their kids, i dont thing a slap and a punch are considered "beating the living sh*t" out of someone
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  #72  
Old 13.08.2012, 08:11
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

What a thread. No surprise that a parenting topic is so heated.

I'm personally not a fan of spanking nor a fan of traditional timeouts. The former because I don't feel good about putting a hand on a child if there's any sentiment that's not positive. The latter because I find it isolating.

Will my opinions change? Quite possibly as I have more children. We'll see. =)

Back to the original OP, I think there are instances where any *reasonable* person (spanker or not) will agree on something being abuse. I don't like seeing a parent smack their child but I don't assume it's abuse. Similarly, I doubt most reasonable parents who spank their children will passively shrug their shoulders if they see a kid being punched repeatedly. There's no formula here. Of course it's subjective. But if you think it's abuse, then report it to the police. In fact, some places in the world make it a crime not to report abuse.

I like the 'idea' of empathy and talking to a parent but that's a limited one in my opinion. If we're talking about a child being punched repeatedly, such that as I said a *reasonable* person (spanker or not) would consider it abusive, then the priority is the child, not the parent. Yes, helping a parent find tools to manage frustration and anger is important. However, it's only one part of the solution. It's critically important too that they know quite clearly what they are doing is not okay and what kind of consequences (for their child and them) can occur if they continue.

Just to stir up a key issue I have with spanking. The thing about spanking is that it was originally supposed to be discipline for the child. As a parent, you don't want to discipline your child but you make the choice to spank them because you believe it will in some way help them. Yet how often is spanking done as an emotional outlet for the parent rather than a disciplinary tool for the child?
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  #73  
Old 13.08.2012, 08:32
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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Just to stir up a key issue I have with spanking. The thing about spanking is that it was originally supposed to be discipline for the child. As a parent, you don't want to discipline your child but you make the choice to spank them because you believe it will in some way help them. Yet how often is spanking done as an emotional outlet for the parent rather than a disciplinary tool for the child?
Very good point. I think smacking occurs far more, for similar behaviours from the child, when the parent is tired, angry etc, than when s/he is feeling calm and energised.
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Old 13.08.2012, 08:43
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

Here a concrete example. My daughter loves the cat, they play a lot together, they tease each other and have a great amount of fun. But sometimes, she gets a little bit to rough and hit him or kick him. Which is absolutely unacceptable. I tried talking, explaining, showing, timeouts on the chair, in her bedroom, nothing worked.

One day, she was playing with him and started to get rough with him again. I was right behind and I slapped her on her tigh (not hard enough to get even red).

The reaction was instantly. Surprise, shock and cries. I explained to her that what she does to the cat is exactly this.

She never hit him again.

When I was young my mom was using the iron. She kept telling me it was hot but didn't believed it. I touched it.

I learned the iron was indeed damn hot. Was it negligence from her part? No, she understood I wouldn't learned it until I hurt myself.

The slaps on the face until late teen were abuse though.
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Old 13.08.2012, 08:54
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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Does this still go on? ------barbaric-------
As soon as you raise your hand against your child you have gone too far...a minor slaps leads to a moderate slap which leads to a severe slap etc.

And often parents are upset when they "slap" their children, which is a very bad combination.

If you have to use physical measures to discipline your child you have failed as a parent.

Since the whole thing is a grey zone, was it grabbing? was it hard? etc. And even if the child will not get bruises he will other traumas.

Take your time from early ages to explain to your child, it's a process that take many years and you have to repeat over and over,
but people want the "fast way"...how sad.

For me its weird, slapping the most precious thing you have accomplish in your life...don't get it...
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  #76  
Old 13.08.2012, 09:22
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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. My reaction was immediate and I couldn't stop myself. I am certainly not proud of it but at least it thought her the lesson.
im sure it did.... it's clear it didn't occur to you that the mere trauma your child faced while being under and potentially drowning wasn't enough

your actions were a reaction... this to me is where a lot of the problem starts, too many people react without thinking things through. maybe a nice hug, reassurance, and the mere fright would have been enough
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Old 13.08.2012, 09:33
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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As soon as you raise your hand against your child you have gone too far...
No you haven't.

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a minor slaps leads to a moderate slap which leads to a severe slap etc.
Not with normal parents.

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If you have to use physical measures to discipline your child you have failed as a parent.
No you haven't.

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For me its weird, slapping the most precious thing you have accomplish in your life...don't get it...
Inflicting mild discomfort to prevent serious harm. Makes absolute sense to me. You might not agree that it works, but that's up to you. Enough of the slander.
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Old 13.08.2012, 09:34
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

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I guess my point to mentioning it is, when I hear people rationalize hitting their kids, I really think that it was how they were brought up and didn't get therapy, or they have no clue how horribly traumatic it is on a child, or, they are just morons without patience and should not be parents to begin with.
Conversely, I think it is very difficult for someone who suffered at the hands of sustained violent abuse to give a balanced counter-argument.
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Old 13.08.2012, 09:45
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

I was spanked as a child, and I'm not deeply traumatised. Nor am I a moron, thank-you. Neither are my sisters.

I just checked, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but occasional spanking (but no more, and certainly not beating) is legal in Switzerland (so what the OP witnessed was probably illegal). If you've a problem with something that parents do that's legal, start a political campaign to get the law changed. Until then, again, stop the slander. (Unless you think you're above the law )
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Old 13.08.2012, 09:55
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Re: Just saw a mother beating the living sh1t out of her kid in Rhine Falls area...

Here's some reasons why it might be good to ban smacking. Rehearse these Sashimo, and you might win some people over to your view.

While most children can effectively disciplined by smacking without any psychological damage, with a minority it causes significant trauma.

While most parents who smack never beat their child, some don't know when to stop, and the difference between reasonable and unreasonable. Their behaviour is more likely to cause significant trauma, and even physical damage, to their children.

It is possible to bring a child up, properly disciplined, without smacking.

Therefore to protect the minority of children, from the minority of bad parents, banning smacking is a good thing.

Personally, I think if a parent is incapable of disciplining without smacking, then they're already needing support.
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