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Old 13.08.2012, 17:15
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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For same standard of living, after tax and other deductions, I would say around 100k Franks. But the question is: what would the exact same job pay? That's more in the 160k Franks region.
Nah, much more...as you would have to include factors such as opening hours, availability of goods and service, safety etc. Geneva is an utter $hithole to say the least.
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:24
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Nah, much more...as you would have to include factors such as opening hours, availability of goods and service, safety etc. Geneva is an utter $hithole to say the least.

If you are not a fan of French language, culture, lifestyle etc. then there is really no point in moving to Geneva (except proximity to excellent skiing facilities).

You could of course commute from somewhere in Vaud or France but trains and motorway are very busy during rushhour.
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:25
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Geneva is an utter $hithole to say the least.
Have you ever been outside Frankfurt's city center (i.e. beyond Alleenring)? Or compare the crap standard of German apartments (ok, still much better than UK), to Swiss standard.

Since the OP knows Stuttgart, Frankfurt will be disappointing, especially food-wise.
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:25
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Nah, much more...as you would have to include factors such as opening hours, availability of goods and service, safety etc. Geneva is an utter $hithole to say the least.

what would you rate as the shittiest thing about Geneva?
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:29
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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If you are not a fan of French language, culture, lifestyle etc. then there is really no point in moving to Geneva (except proximity to excellent skiing facilities).

You could of course commute from somewhere in Vaud or France but trains and motorway are very busy during rushhour.
I do like the French and its language..however, I do not believe in the hypoe of Geneva it's an overpriced rubbish city, that once was something important and now only is a place for diplomatic douchebags and their cronies working at various organizations.

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Have you ever been outside Frankfurt's city center (i.e. beyond Alleenring)? Or compare the crap standard of German apartments (ok, still much better than UK), to Swiss standard.

Since the OP knows Stuttgart, Frankfurt will be disappointing, especially food-wise.
As oppsed to the fabulous cuisines Geneva has to offer?

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what would you rate as the shittiest thing about Geneva?
Everything...and the city stinks, I mean literally.
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Old 13.08.2012, 17:35
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Have you ever been outside Frankfurt's city center (i.e. beyond Alleenring)? Or compare the crap standard of German apartments (ok, still much better than UK), to Swiss standard.
Yes, I have. My sister bought a house some 30 mins from the city. Not a villa but with a garage and a garden. For 250k EUR. Show me that in Geneva.

I prefer Switzerland over Germany, but 115k CHF vs. 75k EUR is an absolute no-brainer.
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  #27  
Old 13.08.2012, 17:37
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

Have to largely agree with you sadly. I used to live there and miss the old city and Parc de Bastions. Also miss the French language which I prefer to German. Still Geneva has a sense of urban decay which seems to be getting worse. It is a place for the very rich and very poor with life for the middle class becoming tougher all the time. Sky high rents and health insurance premiums, rampant drug dealing and the general sensation that there is no sign of positive change on the horizon.

Properly run, Geneva's natural beauty and it's wonderful surrounding countryside would make it an incredible place to live.
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  #28  
Old 13.08.2012, 17:42
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

With 115 K chf in geneva or surroundings there is no way to have a near to similar lifestyle as with 75K eur in Frankfurt. I would go for Frankfurt unless your employer is willing to upgrade to 155K or more.

And still then, housing will be difficult, very difficult.
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  #29  
Old 13.08.2012, 17:43
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Yes, I have. My sister bought a house some 30 mins from the city. Not a villa but with a garage and a garden. For 250k EUR.
Where? That must be in the middle of the woods. Nowadays, a detached house + Garden (larger than a towel) in reasonable distance to the city centre is 650k+
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  #30  
Old 13.08.2012, 18:03
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Where? That must be in the middle of the woods. Nowadays, a detached house + Garden (larger than a towel) in reasonable distance to the city centre is 650k+
Woellstadt. Yes, as I said: 20km or less than 30mins out of the city. Still: You are not seriously discussing if one can live the same quality of life on 115k CHF in Geneva vs 74k Eur in Frankfurt?! Only the difference in rent will kill the bill - if you do find a place... with this income in Frankfurt can you on the other hand pick and choose... how much would something like this be in Geneva?
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  #31  
Old 13.08.2012, 18:15
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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how much would something like this be in Geneva?
and how much is that in % of your net income in Geneva and in Frankfurt? About the same I would guess.
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  #32  
Old 13.08.2012, 18:27
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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and how much is that in % of your net income in Geneva and in Frankfurt? About the same I would guess.
true, but it would probably be much easier to find such a flat in Frankfurt than in Geneva
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Old 13.08.2012, 22:26
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

Hi guys, thank you everybody for your tips!

The fact is that 60k for Vitoria, norther Spain is a lot, and will allow me to have a very nice live, but Spain... What a disaster! Even if I am spanish, I don't want to have nothing to do with the country nowadays

And if I will decide for Frankfurt, I will live most probably in Oberursel, where job takes place, so flats will be cheaper that in the city. And the same will hapen in Geneva, I will try to live in France, close by the border.

And what I realized is that even if Geneva option doesen't make too much sense, if I am able to save a 30% percent in Geneva will be even more money than a 50% in Germany.

Ahhhhh!! All this only because Geneva has those mountains and ski resorts so close!!
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  #34  
Old 13.08.2012, 22:28
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crackfurt sux! soulless, grey, dull city. sachsenhausen is ok, but thats not enough to make this place liveable. rent is also on a higher level, quality i incline to say is better than geneva and spain. but id chose geneva, for sure. northspain i liked this summer, depends where that exactly is but...
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Old 13.08.2012, 22:32
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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Where in Germany did you live? It sounds like you had some really bad experiences there. Do you find life in Switzerland much better?
Yes, I had an awful time in Germany. I've lived in five countries, and never been treated so badly as a foreigner, even though I am an EU citizen. To be fair, it was small town southern Germany (Heidelberg) but I have never, ever felt comfortable in Germany. In Switzerland, on the other hand, I have always been made welcome and have been very happy.

There are lovely people and places in Germany, of course, and I'm speaking ins sweeping generalisations, but my overall experience and that of almost all of my expat acquaintances was overwhelmingly negative.
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Old 13.08.2012, 22:52
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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crackfurt sux! soulless, grey, dull city. sachsenhausen is ok, but thats not enough to make this place liveable. rent is also on a higher level, quality i incline to say is better than geneva and spain. but id chose geneva, for sure. northspain i liked this summer, depends where that exactly is but...
I agree with you. I don't like Geneva but Frankfurt is even worse. Blerck.

Of the three options, I'd pick Spain. You have a good salary in a nice place. Stay in Spain.
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  #37  
Old 14.08.2012, 00:45
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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I agree with you. I don't like Geneva but Frankfurt is even worse. Blerck.

Of the three options, I'd pick Spain. You have a good salary in a nice place. Stay in Spain.
I agree with Mini.... You will have a very very very good salary in a nice place.
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Old 14.08.2012, 00:52
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

There is this joke where Marie-Thérèse compares Berne to being on a coma... with very few chances of waking up. Frankfurt is on the same scale. Boring. Booooring. Not to mention the lack of alps. The lack of lake Geneva. LAKE GENEVA! is there anything more beautiful?

I used to dislike geneva very much for the sense of urban decay it transmits, but I have to say that the more I know it (and I don't live there) the more I like it, really wonderful city with lots of things to do when you know it!

Rents are sky high but it's not all about money, is it? anyway given that tax are lower than in germany the difference on rents shouldn't be important.
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Old 14.08.2012, 01:02
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

For the money: Frankfurt, no brainer.
For the language: pick up the one you like and are likely to still like on middle/long term.
For the culture: if you know yourself, you'll know where to go... otherwise, we are doomed to risk stereotyping when explaining differences. The only thing I gladly say even as half-German is that you won't like Germany if you can't deal with directness, cold goal orientated to the point honesty. The Swiss are softer on the outside, it's more comfy for some people. Last but not least: Frankfurt/Main is.... special. You work there, fun is elsewhere. It's a money town, productive and "house and BMW"kind of place when you've managed to get enough money to get out of the centre. But you'll also find bank/finance international crowd.

P.S. For Geneva, refuse any job offer that doesn't guarantee you a place to live. You'll never manage to get a flat for less than 4000 a month on your own, and nothing at all if you are not in Geneva to visit and apply on the spot. Ideal would be taking over a flat from somebody leaving your new employer or relocating.
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Old 14.08.2012, 01:11
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Re: Decission: Spain 60k - Frankfurt 75k - Geneva 115k chf

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P.S. For Geneva, refuse any job offer that doesn't guarantee you a place to live. You'll never manage to get a flat for less than 4000 a month on your own, and nothing at all if you are not in Geneva to visit and apply on the spot. Ideal would be taking over a flat from somebody leaving your new employer or relocating.
Ok c'mon guys, do not exaggerate, for 4,000 you can get a really good luxury flat, but not everyone needs that. I'm planning to move there... Applied last week for a 1,450 francs newly renovated 2.5 pieces appartement in the city centre. First application. I got the flat. Doesn't look very hard, does it?
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