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Old 17.08.2012, 11:57
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Deposit not refuned

Hi,

I rent a flat in Zurich and had a deposit in a bank.At the day of checkout the landlord signed in fornt of 2 other witnesses to return the full amount to me. I send this document to the bank and asked my money, though the landlord found problems and she called them to not refund me.
For the last 8 months the bank is not giving me the money. Is this legal?
I know the landlord can claim something for up to 1 year but for the bank's point of view shouldnt the signed document be ebough?
I called the bank and the hung up on me and I called lawyer but he said he will cost more that my deposit.

Any suggestions?
Andreas
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Old 17.08.2012, 12:20
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Re: Deposit not refuned

Your right, the landlord can hold the money for a year and despite your signed letter the bank is probably following HIS instruction…

Just be a bit wiser next time, with-hold the last month or months rent (up to the value of your deposit) until you leave, when your landlord signs you out as OK release the keys if he doesn't refuse to vacate…

We did that when we rented, when he signed the OK (apartment was left immaculate and professionally cleaned) he did so because he wanted the new tenants in, he then sent us a bill for nearly CHF5,000 a month later, obviously I sent it back, he sent lawyers after us we used a mediation service CAP (cost us a small annual fee) and they saw we had more legal standing so he reluctantly dropped it…

Being a renting foreigner here, like anywhere else you will be seen as an easy target for a few extra francs, play them at their own game, don't be scared of lawyers letters either, most of them, unless you have caused real damage are just hot air…

As for that deposit, you will have to wait, even after the time has elapsed you could find he has put a claim against it…

Good luck !
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Old 17.08.2012, 12:29
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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Just be a bit wiser next time, with-hold the last month or months rent (up to the value of your deposit) until you leave, when your landlord signs you out as OK release the keys if he doesn't refuse to vacate…

That is truly terrible advise, DO NOT DO THIS!! you will have a Betreibung registered against you faster then you can say auslander.

The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.
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Old 17.08.2012, 12:52
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Re: Deposit not refuned

The best advice has been given on these kinds of threads over and over again: Go and make an appointment with the Mieterverband. They are all lawyers and can advise you on your rights, help you get a letter written to the landlord and/or the bank or refer you to see a mediator or to go to court.

Yearly fee is around 100 CHF a year, but worth every penny.

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Hi,

I rent a flat in Zurich and had a deposit in a bank.At the day of checkout the landlord signed in fornt of 2 other witnesses to return the full amount to me. I send this document to the bank and asked my money, though the landlord found problems and she called them to not refund me.
For the last 8 months the bank is not giving me the money. Is this legal?
I know the landlord can claim something for up to 1 year but for the bank's point of view shouldnt the signed document be ebough?
I called the bank and the hung up on me and I called lawyer but he said he will cost more that my deposit.

Any suggestions?
Andreas
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:02
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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That is truly terrible advise, DO NOT DO THIS!! you will have a Betreibung registered against you faster then you can say auslander.

The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them.
That is a worst case scenario, what is better paying a CHF 40 fine (which wont effect your credit rating if you explain the circumstances) or have CHF thousands held for year?

Too many people live in fear of the system!
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:04
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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That is a worst case scenario, what is better paying a CHF 40 fine (which wont effect your credit rating if you explain the circumstances) or have CHF thousands held for year?

Too many people live in fear of the system!

your joking right?? so when you give your credit reference to your prospective landlord you think they will give you the apartment. Oh that, that's just where I withheld rent to make sure I got my deposit back.

seriously, step away from the keyboard.
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:07
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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your joking right?? so when you give your credit reference to your prospective landlord you think they will give you the apartment. Oh that, that's just where I withheld rent to make sure I got my deposit back.

seriously, step away from the keyboard.
It doesnt have to stay on your credit history you can get them wiped off for good… You can over on the French side because I had one
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:13
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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It doesnt have to stay on your credit history you can get them wiped off for good… You can over on the French side because I had one
I suggest you read up on that a bit more. You can do it - with the approval of the person who issued the "Betreibung" in the first place.

If you have a bad relationship with that person, you're pretty much jacked.
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:16
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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I suggest you read up on that a bit more. You can do it - with the approval of the person who issued the "Betreibung" in the first place.

If you have a bad relationship with that person, you're pretty much jacked.
You don't need approval at all, you just have to argue your case, the decision is made there and then, like I said, I'm speaking from experience not from something I have read!
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:18
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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That is a worst case scenario, what is better paying a CHF 40 fine (which wont effect your credit rating if you explain the circumstances) or have CHF thousands held for year?

Too many people live in fear of the system!
please do us all a favour and don't become a solicitor
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:20
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Re: Deposit not refuned

This is a classic case of when someone is just so wrong its not worth arguing with them.

So lets just leave it at, its a very very bad idea not to pay your rent to get your deposit back, especially if you intend on staying in switzerland
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:26
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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Just be a bit wiser next time, with-hold the last month or months rent (up to the value of your deposit) until you leave, when your landlord signs you out as OK release the keys if he doesn't refuse to vacate…!
We should have a section for totally duff bit's of advice... and this could start it off.

All that sort of behaviour does is have the potential to land you in serious doodoo, get you a poor reference, and makes landlords less likely to rent to auslanders in the future... way to go... not

Last edited by Papa Goose; 19.08.2012 at 12:44.
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:32
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Re: Deposit not refuned

Questions to the OP:

  1. The document you sent to the bank, was it actually the bank release form or just the handover report?
  2. What kind of damage did the landlord find and how long did the landlord take to tell you about it?
  3. Would the damage that the landlord is claiming for have been easily visible when the apartment was inspected?
  4. Are you actually responsible for the damage?
  5. How do you know the landlord called the bank? Who told you? Did you ask the bank for any paperwork to support their claim?
  6. Did the bank just act on the landlord's phone call (hard to believe) or was there some correspondence? If there was correspondence, have you asked the bank to let you have a copy (there should be no objection, the account should be in your name)
PS: Did the bank really put the phone down on you???? And if they did, why? Were you being abusive or rude? And please don't tell me that they just got fed up talking to you....
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:33
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Re: Deposit not refuned

keep it going guys, i just love it !

This forum inspired me to create an algorithm to detect trolls, so we can sell it as an add on

>we have misguided trolls
> malicious trolls
> gang member trolls (that's here)
> sexual trolls
> and pedantic trolls

Please, maybe this thread may give me some more inspiration, come on now, I need to pay my mounting debts and fines
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Old 17.08.2012, 13:48
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Re: Deposit not refuned

Nice one 'GOANING' Trolls

I just knew it was coming
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Old 17.08.2012, 14:13
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Re: Deposit not refuned

you forgot the terrible advise troll
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Old 17.08.2012, 14:26
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Re: Deposit not refuned

Thank you for your replies,

My question has to do with the Bank. I send them a signed document, which is actually bank release document provided from the Bank itself, not something i wrote. It has all our signatures and 2 other witnesses were present. Is it legal the Bank to keep the money because landlord changed her mind? Why did we signed it in the first place? The past 8 months I called the Bank and they even hang up the phone and told me to call laywer. If I sign again and the landlord wants more money do I have to sign until she gat it all?

Yes I am part of the tenant association and they confirmed I have to pay them to proceed to legal action, for the 100CHF they only give advises. I called lawyer and he said his fee (100-500CHF/hour) will be bigger even that the deposit.

I dont live in zurich anymore i dont speak German and I dont want to go to court if possible, because I dont beleive that if i win they will pay me the tickets to Zurich, a translator or a laywer. As for her claim has to do with inventory and cleaning, we never even had a signed inventory, she send me audio files in German (i dont speak German and she knew it) which are not legal-confirmed by Tenant association. I asked for signed inventory 10 times but she never gave me one. I was also paying cleaning service of her choise every other week which cleaned the flat last time even after I left, because she said they only knew how to clean her things.

I dont want to talk to the landlord again and I dont want to go in detail if her claims are valid or not, and either tha Bank. My question has to do with the signed document and the Bank and if I can do something to get my money back without going to court.

Is the Bank legal to keep the money?How many signed documents I have to send?



Regards
Andreas
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Old 17.08.2012, 14:36
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Re: Deposit not refuned

For your reference the conversation with
Graubündner Kantonalbank



(last 1 minute)
....
(me) - I send you a signed document
(bank) - Yes?Let me check.....
(bank) - Yes but we cannot give it to you?
(me) - Why?
(bank) - Talk to landlord
(me) - The signed document is not valid? Why did i signed it?
(bank) - Talk to landlord
(me) - If we sign a new document and she calls again will that be also invalid?
(bank) - Yes.
(me) - Give me your leagl department please
(bank) - We dont have legal department, we are a Bank, call a lawyer
(me) - If I do he will cost more than the deposit, will you pay me if I win?
(bank) - Goodbye
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Old 17.08.2012, 14:43
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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keep it going guys, i just love it !

This forum inspired me to create an algorithm to detect trolls, so we can sell it as an add on

>we have misguided trolls
> malicious trolls
> gang member trolls (that's here)
> sexual trolls
> and pedantic trolls

Please, maybe this thread may give me some more inspiration, come on now, I need to pay my mounting debts and fines
None of these are trolls; they're simply behavioural traits that you find annoying. (See how I cunningly got into one your bullet points?)

A troll is simply an attempt to provoke an argument between posters (ideally not involving the original troller after the troll post), by presenting a superficially correct premise but which is cunningly designed to trigger hot-button responses.

In that sense, your post is an excellent troll!

(BTW, the algorithm you're looking for is easy in the retrospective case: just look for threads with high ping-pong traffic in which the OP rarely subsequently participates)
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Old 17.08.2012, 14:57
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Re: Deposit not refuned

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My question has to do with the Bank. I send them a signed document, which is actually bank release document provided from the Bank itself, not something i wrote. It has all our signatures and 2 other witnesses were present. Is it legal the Bank to keep the money because landlord changed her mind?
The document the bank received, is it the original, signed by all parties, with the amount filled in, i,e. what part is returned to you, and what part is returned to the landlord?

If you signed a blank document, i.e. no amounts filled in, then I see a problem. Otherwise, I don't see what the bank could have to stop the release of the funds.

I deal with these issues on behalf of clients and something just doesn't sound right here.
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