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  #21  
Old 27.08.2012, 22:20
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

Don't you just love the simplicity of the English language, when it comes to personal pronouns ..... which ultimately defines the simplicity of it's users.
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  #22  
Old 27.08.2012, 22:55
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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If during a business lunch a customer tells you their first name while making a toast ("anstossen"), does this mean that you should now address them as "Du" rather than "Sie"?
Not necessarily - I'd wait and watch for a while. Usually the person will make it clear by asking you if it OK to 'Dutzen' - usually the most senior of the two.
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  #23  
Old 27.08.2012, 23:18
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Don't you just love the simplicity of the English language, when it comes to personal pronouns ..... which ultimately defines the simplicity of it's users.
Appen tha's never bin to t'Pennines, hast tha?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou#Pe...erson_singular
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Old 27.08.2012, 23:20
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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And I've noticed that people who are per Du in German often 'vous' one another in French.
Rightly so. I admit that it's a little bit easier to go over to Du in Switzerland than Germany, but in French, I can't warn enough even in Switzerland. Listen carefully and let the other make the change. I would even let them insist a bit before giving in. I've been saying Sie to my neighbours for years and we have a happy house.
In a working environment, it's better to let people insist offering Du rather than using it too easily and forcing them to accept it out of politeness but no conviction.
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Old 27.08.2012, 23:31
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

At a 1st august party here in Ottawa ,with "His excellency the ambasador of switzerland " attending,I ask the guy next to me "Und wer bisch Du " He replyed ,while extending his hand to me " Peter the ambassador" That day I almost lost my wife tue a heart attack
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Old 27.08.2012, 23:59
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Don't you just love the simplicity of the English language, when it comes to personal pronouns ..... which ultimately defines the simplicity of it's users.
Yes. English makes these other euro languages with ludicrous informal and formal complexities look very cumbersome indeed. God knows how people are supposed to remember which form they are using with each person. I know I swap between tu and vous in my Franglais conversations.

It is all a horses ass.
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  #27  
Old 28.08.2012, 00:06
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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At a 1st august party here in Ottawa ,with "His excellency the ambasador of switzerland " attending,I ask the guy next to me "Und wer bisch Du " He replyed ,while extending his hand to me " Peter the ambassador" That day I almost lost my wife tue a heart attack
Your bad - my wife always ensured I knew who the party host was ..... and sometimes it was even the guy carrying a silver tray of a pyramid of gold covered choccy balls.
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  #28  
Old 28.08.2012, 00:21
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Yes. English makes these other euro languages with ludicrous informal and formal complexities look very cumbersome indeed. God knows how people are supposed to remember which form they are using with each person.
It's called learning a language. Try harder, dear.

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I know I swap between tu and vous in my Franglais conversations.
Big mistake. Not only language-wise. One day, you'll meet a French person who will be very unpedagogical about it. That will be painful.

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It is all a horses ass.
only to you, dear, only to you. Open you mind to the rest of the world, open...
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  #29  
Old 28.08.2012, 00:31
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

this is any easy equation for me - the people who are willing to speak Swiss German with me tend to be friends, and everybody else switches immediately to English.
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Old 28.08.2012, 00:43
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Yes. English makes these other euro languages with ludicrous informal and formal complexities look very cumbersome indeed. God knows how people are supposed to remember which form they are using with each person. I know I swap between tu and vous in my Franglais conversations.

It is all a horses ass.
Technically you are using 'Sie' all the time in English . The 'Du' form got out of use quite a while ago.

In the 19th century there was actually the same tendency in German. Even married couples used the 'Sie'-form to address each other. The 'Du'-form was on the verge of extinction, but was eventually saved by the socialists who used it to express egality and to distinct themselves from the bourgeoisie.
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  #31  
Old 28.08.2012, 00:48
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

...and along those same lines, children would address their parents as "Sie".
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  #32  
Old 28.08.2012, 00:48
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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The 'Du'-form was on the verge of extinction.
Not in dialects, which was (and still is to a certain extent) the speech of the vast majority of the people (as in Volk). You are talking only of High-German formal speech. Massive part of the population never had to speak it anyway.
If you really want to make such distinctions in history, you'll have to add the "ihr"-Form.
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  #33  
Old 28.08.2012, 01:20
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Not in dialects, which was (and still is to a certain extent) the speech of the vast majority of the people (as in Volk). You are talking only of High-German formal speech. Massive part of the population never had to speak it anyway.
If you really want to make such distinctions in history, you'll have to add the "ihr"-Form.
But don't forget the 'er'-form.
I don't know whether my memory is correct. But I think 'Ihr' was used by members of lower social classes to address members of higher social classes. 'Er' was used by members of higher social classes to address people with lower social standing. 'Sie' was only used as a polite form between members of the same social class.

You are certainly correct, that change away from the 'Du' form mainly happened in standard German. But as this was the language of the upper and middle classes and of education it would have eventually filtered trough to the lower classes. If a form is once extinct from the standard of a language and is considered to be wrong in the standard language, it is very difficult to reintroduce it again.
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  #34  
Old 28.08.2012, 01:31
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Yes. English makes these other euro languages with ludicrous informal and formal complexities look very cumbersome indeed. God knows how people are supposed to remember which form they are using with each person. I know I swap between tu and vous in my Franglais conversations.

It is all a horses ass.
Yeah, especially when most common English speakers can't even seem to get their grammar correct these days. It does make one glad that we don't have to have them butchering the formal and informal address of "you".



Especially those of us from the Colonies.
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  #35  
Old 28.08.2012, 01:48
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Yes. English makes these other euro languages with ludicrous informal and formal complexities look very cumbersome indeed.
If you think language formalities are complicated in European languages, try languages in East Asia.

Never mind a more extensive system of honorifics (equivalents to du/Sie) - the verbs in Japanese change according to both the status of who you're speaking to and who you're speaking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorif...ch_in_Japanese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uchi-soto

Korean and Thai can be quite complex in this regard too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_honorifics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_honorifics
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  #36  
Old 28.08.2012, 02:44
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

I would like to see the day 2 Iron worker call each other Herr Huber and Herr Meier
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  #37  
Old 28.08.2012, 10:06
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

I've found (in my experience so it's only anecdotal) that certain groups of people immediately defer to the "du" form of address and using "Sie" is odd and awkward.

I've experienced this with motorbiking friends of my husband and usually when you meet with people in a leisure organisation which is sporty such as climbing clubs and swimming groups.

I started off with "Herr..." and immediately got a friendly clap on the back, a guffaw of laughter and a "I'm Peter, what's your name?"
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  #38  
Old 28.08.2012, 10:14
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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Don't forget, once you start using 'du' with someone, it is an insult to ever use 'sie' again with that person. (learned my lesson well )

Tom
Oops! I read your post too late! Well a customer toasted me with his first name at a company social event. Yesterday, I got an email addressed to me using my first name, I responded using Herr, and today the customer is calling me Herr again!!
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Old 28.08.2012, 10:22
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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If during a business lunch a customer tells you their first name while making a toast ("anstossen"), does this mean that you should now address them as "Du" rather than "Sie"?
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Oops! I read your post too late! Well a customer toasted me with his first name at a company social event. Yesterday, I got an email addressed to me using my first name, I responded using Herr, and today the customer is calling me Herr again!!
What exactly do you do for a living? And is it based in the 1960s?

I have worked in the corporate world for twenty years and I have never once been toasted by a customer or supplier!
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Old 28.08.2012, 10:25
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Re: Changing from "Sie" to "Du"

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I have worked in the corporate world for twenty years and I have never once been toasted by a customer or supplier!
Think he means "anstossen" where you chink glasses and (re)introduce yourself with your first name.
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