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Old 30.08.2012, 09:52
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Witness of threat and almost violence

Yesterday I watched a friend of mine being pushed out of the cafe we were at by another guy and then provoked and harassed. The other guy was clearly trying to provoke my friend to take the first strike. My friend, being intelligent, did not take the bait, even when the guy insulted him continuously, talked a few inches from his face, gave him a few aggressive "buddy slaps" and finger pokes,and even made a racist comment towards me. The good thing was, I was able to film the whole 7 minute confrontation on my phone where you can clearly see that the other guy was not acting rationally and my friend was trying to calm the situation.The guy has now threatened to come back to my friend in a week, to "sort" him out. Whatever that means. There were quite a few witnesses around, and the guy must have seen me filming, but I am not 100% sure. I must note though, that I did not hide the filing...i stood there blatantly with my iPhone. First to the guys back, but a couple fo times I move to the side, and then at the end the guy turns to my direction, so I think he should have seen me...but he could have just been seeing red.

My police friend says because this argument is between 2 men, there really isn't much that can be done. we could report it, but then the police would just go to the guy and ask him if this all happened. If he would deny it, the could say they have video evidence, but if he says he does not give permission, the video could be discounted. I heard that the law in Switzerland, like many other places, is that you do not have lawful right to film someone who does not give their consent to be filmed. So what can I do? Do we have any legal right to be able to show this video to anyone? Or do we wait until next week when the guy comes back and someone gets hurt? I feel completely sickened and worried about this situation...

Any help would be most appreciated.
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Old 30.08.2012, 09:54
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Post it on YouTube.

Tom
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Old 30.08.2012, 09:55
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Put the video on You-tube, let it go viral and when all his friends, workmates and family see what a tw*t he is, hopefully, he'll calm down.

Last edited by Tom1234; 30.08.2012 at 09:55. Reason: Beaten to it by the other Tom
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:01
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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Yesterday I watched a friend of mine being pushed out of the cafe we were at by another guy and then provoked and harassed. The other guy was clearly trying to provoke my friend to take the first strike. My friend, being intelligent, did not take the bait, even when the guy insulted him continuously, talked a few inches from his face, gave him a few aggressive "buddy slaps" and finger pokes,and even made a racist comment towards me. The good thing was, I was able to film the whole 7 minute confrontation on my phone where you can clearly see that the other guy was not acting rationally and my friend was trying to calm the situation.The guy has now threatened to come back to my friend in a week, to "sort" him out. Whatever that means. There were quite a few witnesses around, and the guy must have seen me filming, but I am not 100% sure. I must note though, that I did not hide the filing...i stood there blatantly with my iPhone. First to the guys back, but a couple fo times I move to the side, and then at the end the guy turns to my direction, so I think he should have seen me...but he could have just been seeing red.

My police friend says because this argument is between 2 men, there really isn't much that can be done. we could report it, but then the police would just go to the guy and ask him if this all happened. If he would deny it, the could say they have video evidence, but if he says he does not give permission, the video could be discounted. I heard that the law in Switzerland, like many other places, is that you do not have lawful right to film someone who does not give their consent to be filmed. So what can I do? Do we have any legal right to be able to show this video to anyone? Or do we wait until next week when the guy comes back and someone gets hurt? I feel completely sickened and worried about this situation...

Any help would be most appreciated.
So your friend is planning that in a week he'll be hanging out in the same "cafe", waiting for the same guy to come back there and "sort him out"?
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:05
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Doesn't Swiss Law oppose people posting crimes on YouTube?

My friend works in the cafe, so he cant exactly avoid it
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:07
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

You must report this to the police, and give them a copy of the evidence. Then when it happens again, he cannot claim it was a first offence, and get off lightly with just a warning.

I was once attacked and I went to the police who advised me not to make a complaint. I then went to the doctor who found my shoulder was broken (Clavicle bone, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavicle_fracture ). Doctor said I must insist on a report, for the above reason. I insisted and made my statement, and the police grudgingly accepted it.

There were 2 court cases, and I attended as a witness (You need to bring the evidence to court yourself, as the police or prosecutor is not appearing) the attacker did not turn up, on both occasions! I don't know the result.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:07
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Ok, I am missing the WHY bit?
Why did this happen?
What led to these events?
Was this completely unprovoked verbal aggression?
"sort him out* basically means give him a bashing, though, it is likely an empty threat in the heat of the moment.
Are you a man or a woman?
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:09
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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So your friend is planning that in a week he'll be hanging out in the same "cafe", waiting for the same guy to come back there and "sort him out"?
If they go there regularly then of course it's an issue, and "a week" doesn't mean the guy will wait exactly 7 days... he could turn up any time over the next couple of weeks for all they know. Sorry to make your sarcy comment into a bit of a fail.

But anyway Gummybear, don't worry about it too much. I'm guessing he (angry man) was just talking 99% shite, as if he was really serious he would have just hit your friend then and there while he was angry, not wait a week until it had all blown over. It was an empty threat designed to intimidate, so just go about life as normal and if he turns up again, call the police and tell him to **** off.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:09
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

What provoked the situation in the first place? People don't normally get aggressive and threaten others without a reason. I'm not justifying the incident in any way but I think the first half of the story is missing, to be honest.

Last edited by Sandgrounder; 30.08.2012 at 10:10. Reason: JordanBarr got there before me. :-)
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:14
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

I am a woman, my friend is a man. This fight came out of a false accusation made by the guys wife, that my friend verbally attacked her professionally. The real situation, which is in a written statement, states that she instigated the fight, and my friend , also at this time, would not rise to her provocation, which made her sorely pissed off. she then went and told her husband, a big burly guy, that she was verbally attacked, he went to my friend and threatened him. He even says to my friend at one point "do you think my wife is lying to me?" and my friend blatantly says YES, because that was the truth.

As for reporting it....apparently nothing will come of it. I think we are just supposed to wait until the sh*t goes down and someone gets hurt. which scares me. This guy looked aggressive and not very educated, so I am sure he is capable of MANY stupid things...
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:18
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Call the police to report it anyway, then it will be on file and when you tell this woman and her husband it will act as a deterrent in future if they know you've made the first step against them. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:25
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

You brought it to the attention of the police, IF something does happen, you can point out that fact. Hopefully you took down the name of the officer(s) with whom you spoke.

I agree with some others though, that it was probably a heat of the moment thing (particularly if alcohol was involved), and likely nothing more will come of it. If your friend isn't hurt now, I'd simply let it blow over, if he is hurt, of course, that's a different story though.


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As for reporting it....apparently nothing will come of it. I think we are just supposed to wait until the sh*t goes down and someone gets hurt. which scares me. This guy looked aggressive and not very educated, so I am sure he is capable of MANY stupid things...
Oh honey, lol.

I spent my late 20s / early 30s living and working near a uni specializing in air and space engineering, there is PLENTY that happens between people that has absolutely nothing to do with level of education.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:25
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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I am a woman, my friend is a man. This fight came out of a false accusation made by the guys wife, that my friend verbally attacked her professionally. The real situation, which is in a written statement, states that she instigated the fight, and my friend , also at this time, would not rise to her provocation, which made her sorely pissed off. she then went and told her husband, a big burly guy, that she was verbally attacked, he went to my friend and threatened him. He even says to my friend at one point "do you think my wife is lying to me?" and my friend blatantly says YES, because that was the truth.

As for reporting it....apparently nothing will come of it. I think we are just supposed to wait until the sh*t goes down and someone gets hurt. which scares me. This guy looked aggressive and not very educated, so I am sure he is capable of MANY stupid things...
It is easy for us to say, but I would report the threat and then forget about it. The chances are - after a week - that the guy has had some time to think about it and a discussion will have taken place with his wife.

Think about it from the other guy's point of view. How would you feel if someone made comments regarding your wife/husband/boyfriend etc. etc? It doesn't really matter if they are true or false as alcohol has a way of making everything more serious than it is and also remove the requirement for proof.

None of this is excusing the action itself, but having been here in Switzerland for over four years, I have yet to see someone physically attack another individual.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:28
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

The police I spoke to was actually a police-friend, so it was unofficial. She was the one that said not much can really be done, and she seemed to think it wouldn't help much except aggravate the situation.

To be honest, as I am not a man...I dont know how this whole male ego/fighting thing goes...but as a woman bystander, it terrified me.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:31
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Well, this couple are notorious. People are afraid of both of them as the are both aggressive many times with others. No one dares say anything due to their overly aggressive natures. When we spoke to other friends about it, they also said that they had been threatened by him before. I hope this will die down. I cant even think to leave him alone and I cant sleep/eat
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:31
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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The police I spoke to was actually a police-friend, so it was unofficial. She was the one that said not much can really be done, and she seemed to think it wouldn't help much except aggravate the situation.

To be honest, as I am not a man...I dont know how this whole male ego/fighting thing goes...but as a woman bystander, it terrified me.
Exactly. You are looking at it from the point of view of a woman. For us, we have a set-to, threaten all sorts of stuff, plot revenge for weeks, discuss it ad nauseum with our friends, cry over it, stare and hiss at the person as we pass them in the street then eventually delete them from Facebook and never speak to them again.

As a chap, they have a one-off barney in a bar, maybe a bit of a scuffle then a week later it's forgotten.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:32
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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It is easy for us to say, but I would report the threat and then forget about it. The chances are - after a week - that the guy has had some time to think about it and a discussion will have taken place with his wife.
I actually doubt this. If she instigated the ruse, without her bluff being called, she will continue to perpetuate it. Perhaps even stir the pot a bit more. The "lady macbeth syndrome", if you will.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:47
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

Silverburn, I totally agree with you. She will never "come to her senses". she already tries to ruin his professional life by spreading rumors and false accusations...I guess there must be a law against that too? Defamation of reputation or something? this isnt the first time. The wife once was at the gym and started shouting at a friend of mine in front of everyone, and she was in tears after.
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:49
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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I am a woman, my friend is a man. This fight came out of a false accusation made by the guys wife, that my friend verbally attacked her professionally. The real situation, which is in a written statement, states that she instigated the fight, and my friend , also at this time, would not rise to her provocation, which made her sorely pissed off. she then went and told her husband, a big burly guy, that she was verbally attacked, he went to my friend and threatened him. He even says to my friend at one point "do you think my wife is lying to me?" and my friend blatantly says YES, because that was the truth.

As for reporting it....apparently nothing will come of it. I think we are just supposed to wait until the sh*t goes down and someone gets hurt. which scares me. This guy looked aggressive and not very educated, so I am sure he is capable of MANY stupid things...
Ok, so that explains the filming as opposed to standing by their side situation.

Accusation your friend attacked her professionally? Does she work in the cafe too or something? So it sounds like a work disagreement i.e. your friend upset lady, she got irate, he didnt react according to you, she told husband, husband came and told him not to upset his wife.

You are making many assumptions, so your feedback will contain many assumptions.

My take is, woman got emotional from your friends accusations or manner, she tried to argue it out with him, he was disinterested / smug if you like perhpas, she went and told hubby about young upstart who upset her, hubby came in to give him what for.

You have said the guy looked uneducated in two different posts. What does this have to do with anything? How can you make this assumption? What is uneductated? I didnt go to university, I dont have a degree or masters, I didnt stay on at school beyond 16 to even do a-levels? Am I uneducated and thus inferior or prone to aggression and assaults?
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Old 30.08.2012, 10:49
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Re: Witness of threat and almost violence

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particularly if alcohol was involved
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It doesn't really matter if they are true or false as alcohol has a way of making everything more serious than it is and also remove the requirement for proof.
Who said Anything about Alcohol being involved??? Why people assume all arguments are fueled by alcohol is beyond me! Because no one fights without it right??

Before assuming it was Alcohol, why not read the thread properly first before jumping to conclusions.

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My friend works in the cafe, so he cant exactly avoid it
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