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  #141  
Old 07.09.2012, 09:35
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

I find it ironic that a self identifying libertarian has an avatar referencing ancient roman government.
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  #142  
Old 07.09.2012, 09:38
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Nonsense. You have misunderstood Economics 101. Supply and demand operate on a curve. Demand is not unlimited at the higher price. There is demand for the same product at lower prices that is not being fulfilled when legislations remove that supply from the market. If all demand could be supplied at the lower price by a more efficient producer, rather than partially fulfilled by the inefficient protected producer, the price would then be lowered to the new revenue-maximizing point and existing producers would have to lower their prices to match.
No, you are right. You didn't misunderstand the lesson on supply and demand and neither did I. But that wasn't the point I was making.

Was I am trying to get across to people is that trying to explain why prices in Switzerland are high by somehow attributing it to costs of production etc is wrong. Any seller will sell at the maximum price that the market will stand and the fundamental factor about higher Swiss retail prices is the fact that consumers will pay those prices.
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  #143  
Old 07.09.2012, 09:40
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Didn't they make you sign something saying you wouldn't write stuff like that anymore at the investiture?
They made me check-in my cynivision and my wit rapier, but I always carry spares in my sock.
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  #144  
Old 07.09.2012, 10:53
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Right, first of all your timescale is way off for gaining Swiss citizenship via the Irish route. Why? This is what is required for Irish citizenship:

You must be of full age (i.e. eighteen years or older, or married if younger than eighteen).
You must be of good character.
You must have had a period of one (1) year’s continuous reckonable residence in the State immediately before the date of the application and, during the eight (8) years preceding that, have had a total reckonable residence in the State amounting to four (4) years.

This means a total of 5 years residency in the last 8. So unless you can claim some sort of Irish descent that might entitle to citizenship, the Irish end is at least 5 years.

Then there is the Swiss end of things. There follows the conditions for a normal naturalisation permit:

12 years' residence in Switzerland (between the ages of 10 and 20 every year is counted as two years)
Integration into Swiss society
Familiarity with Swiss customs, traditions and lifestyle
Compliance with Swiss law
No threat to Switzerland's internal or external security.

And that assumes the Irish will grant you citizenship in the first place because another requirement is:

You must intend in good faith to continue to reside in the State after naturalisation.

Looks to me like you need to do much more research about how long this may take you.

And you may also need to consider how FATCA is affecting other nations. I don't mean as a US citizen, but as a citizen of any country who works in a different one. Already the UK and others are eyeing up similar thoughts about taxing their citizens abroad and I shouldn't be surprised if Ireland followed suit. That means, even if you made the move to Switzerland once you had Irish citizenship you may well end up paying additional taxes to Ireland while you wait at least 12 years for Swiss citizenship.
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  #145  
Old 07.09.2012, 11:32
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Already the UK and others are eyeing up similar thoughts about taxing their citizens abroad and I shouldn't be surprised if Ireland followed suit.
Where did you get this from? In the UK, the new tax residency law comes into effect from April 2013. I am not aware of any intention to change this as you suggest.
  #146  
Old 07.09.2012, 11:35
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Then there is the Swiss end of things. There follows the conditions for a normal naturalisation permit:

12 years' residence in Switzerland (between the ages of 10 and 20 every year is counted as two years)
Integration into Swiss society
Familiarity with Swiss customs, traditions and lifestyle
Compliance with Swiss law
No threat to Switzerland's internal or external security.


And, don't forget that Swiss citizenship is not automatic. People are turned down all the time, often based on local prejudices.

(We qualify, but would never be approved.)
  #147  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:00
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Where did you get this from? In the UK, the new tax residency law comes into effect from April 2013. I am not aware of any intention to change this as you suggest.
Article from Reuters 23.08.12

"A cross-party committee of MPs has called on the government to introduce U.S.-style automatic disclosure of information on UK citizens by foreign institutions and tax authorities to help stem global cross-border tax evasion.

In a report published on Thursday, the International Development Committee said that if tax authorities are required to share information on UK individual taxpayers or corporations, it would help stop international tax evasion.

The proposed legislation takes as inspiration the new U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which is designed to stop Americans from hiding money from the taxman offshore, the report says.

FATCA places the burden of automatic disclosure to U.S. tax authorities on foreign financial institutions, with U.S. taxpayers as clients.

In Europe, under the EU's Savings Directive, if an EU resident holds an account in another member state, the home tax authorities must be notified.

The UK parliamentary committee suggested that if the UK required tax authorities to exchange information related to British citizens or corporations with overseas interests, it would establish a standard of transparency.

"We recommend that the government introduce legislation similar to the relevant section of the U.S. ...FATCA, requiring tax authorities automatically to exchange information relating to UK citizens or corporations," the report said.

The committee also recommended the UK government use its influence "to persuade other governments to follow suit".

Such a move could enhance the abilityof developing countries to increase their tax take, the report said.

"The capacity of a developing country tax authority to obtain information on the offshore activities of its citizens or corporations is critical to its ability to curtail illicit capital flight."

FINANCIAL INDUSTRY HEADACHES

Adoption of U.S.-style automatic disclosure rules by other developed countries would add to a long list of regulatory headaches currently afflicting the global financial services industry.

Rules on enforcing FATCA have yet to be finalised, but they have already caused ripples across the banking industry, which has had to absorb the administrative and financia lburden of meeting the disclosure obligations.

Another reform mooted by the committee is the introduction of new accounting standards that would require corporations to report information on a country-by-country basis.

This would aim to prevent multinationals from shifting profits to subsidiaries set up in tax havens, thus reducing the tax take in the countries where they actually operate.

UK charity Christian Aid, which has campaigned for country-by-country reporting and provided written evidence to the Committee, welcomed the proposals.

"We're ... really pleased that MPs are calling on the UK government to lead the global fight against tax dodging, rather than waiting for other countries to agree on what to do about it,"said Joseph Stead, senior economic justice adviser at Christian Aid."

And they won't be the only ones to do so. France has also expressed interest in setting up something.

At this rate, no one will be able to get a bank account anywhere other than in their home country. The whole banking and economic system will probably collapse because each system needed will be different and the banks simply won't be able to cope. Ordinary working people can't live without bank/credit facilities in other countries when they work abroad yet no one seems to be thinking about this.
  #148  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:06
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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In the end, I'm guessing I would be eating more beef living in Switzerland than chicken.
Is there a more perfect quote to summarize someone's theoretical rose-tinted-glasses view of Switzerland before having actually experienced it?
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  #149  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:07
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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And you may also need to consider how FATCA is affecting other nations. I don't mean as a US citizen, but as a citizen of any country who works in a different one. Already the UK and others are eyeing up similar thoughts about taxing their citizens abroad and I shouldn't be surprised if Ireland followed suit. That means, even if you made the move to Switzerland once you had Irish citizenship you may well end up paying additional taxes to Ireland while you wait at least 12 years for Swiss citizenship.
LOL, the irish government is barely capable of collecting taxes from non-PAYE workers who live in Ireland, let alone tax people living abroad
  #150  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:17
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Article from Reuters 23.08.12

"A cross-party committee of MPs has called on the government to introduce U.S.-style automatic disclosure of information on UK citizens by foreign institutions and tax authorities to help stem global cross-border tax evasion.
This article does not mention that UK expats will be taxed in a similar manner to US expats.
  #151  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:27
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

I considered reading all 150 posts in this thread but decided that reattaching the retinas of my eyes using a minimally invasive home surgery technique involving red hot skewers and a tube of super glue would be more entertaining. Therefore, I apologise if anyone has already made this observation:

OP --your avatar is just a little incongruous. Libertarian, you mentioned?

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Morgannon, is that you?
Quite. My first thought, too.



ETA:

Dammit -- cheesey, at the top of this page.
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  #152  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:32
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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So is it a fair assessment that there are also people asleep in Switzerland to the realities of the US government?
So you admit that actually, this thread is all about criticizing the US government, and not at all about whether the Swiss (or any other) system is better suited to your particular requirements.

To answer your question with a question, why would people in Switzerland care about (your perceived) realities of the US government? We live in Switzerland.
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  #153  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:43
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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So you admit that actually, this thread is all about criticizing the US government, and not at all about whether the Swiss (or any other) system is better suited to your particular requirements.

To answer your question with a question, why would people in Switzerland care about (your perceived) realities of the US government? We live in Switzerland.

He went to bed. Its a school day today and he has lots of homework and he needs to get it done early because he has a sleepover this weekend, with cookies and milk and everything. He's VERY excited about it. He's gonna watch grown up TV and then come back and tell us all about it
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  #154  
Old 07.09.2012, 12:52
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

I don't understand why any Libertarian would want to live in Switzerland. Despite the fact that it is a direct democracy, it is also very regulated.

Hell, you can barely fart on a Sunday, legally.
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  #155  
Old 07.09.2012, 13:11
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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I don't understand why any Libertarian would want to live in Switzerland.
He doesn't. He just doesn't want to live in the US.

You could replace Switzerland in the OP with any country -- Bermuda, Latvia, Afghanistan -- and get much the same result.
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  #156  
Old 07.09.2012, 13:20
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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This article does not mention that UK expats will be taxed in a similar manner to US expats.
Do you really think that they won't, especially in these cash-strapped days?
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  #157  
Old 07.09.2012, 13:28
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Currently, I live in the US, with it's ever increasing police state policies becoming the norm domestically and imperialism abroad - frankly I'm sick of it and I don't expect it to get any better no matter who wins here in November.

That said, I've studied Switzerland for quite some time (I'm probably closest to the FDP there). While it is by no means my 100% ideal nation (such a thing does not exist), it is however a nation that closely matches my ideology, in particular, their greater emphasis on federalism granting greater power to the cantons and the people over their central government.

Anyway, this is all basic encyclopedic info, but to get to the root of my questions, I would like to know from those who live there in Switzerland if the following concerns I have about the US are also issues in Switzerland:

1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?

2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)?

3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?

4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?

5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?

6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?

Thanks for any answers or insight you can provide. I'm hoping that none of the above are the case in Switzerland as I intend to move there in 5 years time.
Are you Jason Bourne?
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  #158  
Old 07.09.2012, 13:40
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Are you Jason Bourne?
No. Jason Bourne's been to Switzerland.
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  #159  
Old 07.09.2012, 13:58
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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No. Jason Bourne's been to Switzerland.
Not really. Those scenes from the first Bourne flick were not done in Zurich.
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Old 07.09.2012, 14:15
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Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

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Yeah, they do, I certainly hope you don't use one... Such a "helpful" post. You're one of those punk kids who hates everything in the world beyond your little bubble, aren't you? I've read your other posts on a few of the other threads and I'm guessing that's in fact the case.

You're the kid that hung out in my poli sci classes, argued with everyone, and claimed that everything would be so much better if we just did what Marx said and killed the rich people and gave all their money and land to the poor. That worked out SO well for Zimbabwe...
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