Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:41
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO, USA
Posts: 43
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
aedile245 has become a little unpopular
Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Currently, I live in the US, with it's ever increasing police state policies becoming the norm domestically and imperialism abroad - frankly I'm sick of it and I don't expect it to get any better no matter who wins here in November.

That said, I've studied Switzerland for quite some time (I'm probably closest to the FDP there). While it is by no means my 100% ideal nation (such a thing does not exist), it is however a nation that closely matches my ideology, in particular, their greater emphasis on federalism granting greater power to the cantons and the people over their central government.

Anyway, this is all basic encyclopedic info, but to get to the root of my questions, I would like to know from those who live there in Switzerland if the following concerns I have about the US are also issues in Switzerland:

1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?

2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)?

3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?

4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?

5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?

6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?

Thanks for any answers or insight you can provide. I'm hoping that none of the above are the case in Switzerland as I intend to move there in 5 years time.
The following 3 users would like to thank aedile245 for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at aedile245 for this post:
  #2  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:47
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Welcome to the forum.

Didn't I see you once presenting Fox News?

You could always stay in America because the only people who thinks these things happen there wear tin foil hats
The following 9 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
This user groans at Caviarchips for this post:
  #3  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,248
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,732 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Morgannon, is that you?



Seriously - do a bit of browsing around. These questions come up regularly.


The executive summary:

Private life in Switzerland is regulated to a degree unthinkable for most Americans, of any political persuasion.

The picture painted in the US media is quite far from the mark.

---

But before you even think of trying to immigrate here, research your visa options. It is very difficult for non-EU citizens to move to Switzerland these days. You'll likely need unique skills, unavailable in the entire EU, in order to secure a work permit.

And research the fallout from FATCA - it's becoming very difficult for Americans to access the financial sector here, some banks no longer will do business with Americans due to the high cost of compliance and liability..
The following 6 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:53
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

1-6

1. They have spied on foreign citizens in the past, despite strict privacy laws, so you will probably be more at risk than in the USA
2. Yes
3. I imagine if you escape to Switzerland, the USA can still murder you anywhere they please, so it's a bit pointless worrying about it.
4. No, swiss citizens are waived through all security at all airports.
5. There's social welfare in switzerland, so probably
6. Get a grip, also this post has been forwarded to the FBI as dissenting, expect a knock at the door.
The following 3 users would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post

1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?
the Swiss authorities do not need to bother with spying, since your neighbors will do it for them.



in all seriousness, the US government can't find its own ass without using 10,000 civil servants and spending trillions of dollars, do you really think they are reading your e-mail?
The following 10 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:56
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,728
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,937 Times in 3,652 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order
Who knows. They wouldn't tell me if they did. They do go through your bin bags if you put them out on the wronmg day.

Quote:
View Post
2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)?
There was that French director bloke. But they let him go after keeping in a chalet for a while.

Quote:
View Post
3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?
Who knows. They wouldn't tell me if they did. Probably not though.

Quote:
View Post
4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?
You mean like having your water taken away? Yeah. They do that here too. Not so much of the fingerprints and eye scans though. (Though beware if youre carrying a fake handbag.)


Quote:
View Post
5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?
Of course. This is Switzerland.

Quote:
View Post
6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?
Good grief no. They invented Fasnacht for just that purpose.

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for any answers or insight you can provide. I'm hoping that none of the above are the case in Switzerland as I intend to move there in 5 years time.
I'm sure they can't wait to find out whether they've met your criteria.
__________________
Nothing of value kept in this post overnight.
The following 2 users would like to thank mirfield for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.09.2012, 17:58
Caviarchips's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel Stadt
Posts: 3,979
Groaned at 99 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 6,677 Times in 2,388 Posts
Caviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond reputeCaviarchips has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I'm sure they can't wait to find out whether they've met your criteria.
Didn't they make you sign something saying you wouldn't write stuff like that anymore at the investiture?
The following 3 users would like to thank Caviarchips for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:08
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?

2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)?

3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?


1-3 are not questions that can be met with simple yes/no answers, as similarly to the US or indeed most other countries, it depends. You'd probably need to be a lawyer to do a full comparative analysis. But if I interpret the question behind the question correctly, Switzerland is probably more restrictive than the US.

Quote:
View Post
4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?


They don't care about security as much as the US does, but they may be interested in how much meat you've bought or whether you've bought any counterfeit brand articles.

Quote:
View Post
5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?


Companies that were bailed out include Swissair and UBS. But these measures met quite a bit of disapproval so they may be more careful in future. Tax rates are generally low here, regarless of whether you're a big multinational or self employed or an employee.

Quote:
View Post
6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?


I never heard of such a case. Freedom of speech isn't quite as open as in the US, as for example, there are laws against hate speech. But if you look at some of the stuff that gets pushed into our letterboxes, the level of tolerance appears to be quite high. I'm not aware of any other types of opinions being illegal, or of measures being taken to repress them.
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:10
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO, USA
Posts: 43
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
aedile245 has become a little unpopular
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Welcome to the forum.

Didn't I see you once presenting Fox News?

You could always stay in America because the only people who thinks these things happen there wear tin foil hats
I anticipated a response like this, so here's my proof:

1. The U.S.A. PATRIOT ACT
2. Warrantless Wiretapping
3. National Defense Authorization Act

4. Summary executions of U.S. citizens abroad
5. The Transportation Security Administration
6. The Ex-PATRIOT Act, exit taxes, and fees
7. Fiscal and Tax Policy Stacked Against Small Businesses
8. The Detention of Brandon Raub in a Psych Ward for Anti-Government Postings on Facebook

So is it a fair assessment that there are also people asleep in Switzerland to the realities of the US government?
  #10  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:11
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,354
Groaned at 90 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 19,675 Times in 8,704 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
the Swiss authorities do not need to bother with spying, since your neighbors will do it for them.
CG is only half-kidding. The neighbors do enough watching (and correcting your behavior) that the cops and government don't need to do much.

Quote:
View Post
They do go through your bin bags if you put them out on the wrong day.
Also not a joke. And if you don't bundle up your newspapers just so, you get a letter informing you how to do it properly.

You think you hate the U.S. government now? Wait until you get here and deal with FACTA.
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:12
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO, USA
Posts: 43
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
aedile245 has become a little unpopular
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Morgannon, is that you?



Seriously - do a bit of browsing around. These questions come up regularly.


The executive summary:

Private life in Switzerland is regulated to a degree unthinkable for most Americans, of any political persuasion.

The picture painted in the US media is quite far from the mark.

---

But before you even think of trying to immigrate here, research your visa options. It is very difficult for non-EU citizens to move to Switzerland these days. You'll likely need unique skills, unavailable in the entire EU, in order to secure a work permit.

And research the fallout from FATCA - it's becoming very difficult for Americans to access the financial sector here, some banks no longer will do business with Americans due to the high cost of compliance and liability..
I've taken this into account, I will transfer with my company to Ireland, establish my residency there, renouce my U.S. citizenship post haste, and then from Ireland, move to Switzerland. I see no advantages to maintaining a U.S. citizenship whether I remain in the US or live abroad.
  #12  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:14
cyrus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Emmenbruecke
Posts: 2,904
Groaned at 37 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 3,471 Times in 1,513 Posts
cyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond reputecyrus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

You do realise, that as a foreign national in another country, it's probably more likely that you'll be subjected to everything you fear than if you just stayed in the us of a.
This user would like to thank cyrus for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:14
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Richterswil
Posts: 541
Groaned at 11 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 378 Times in 169 Posts
Breezy has an excellent reputationBreezy has an excellent reputationBreezy has an excellent reputationBreezy has an excellent reputation
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Psst.... Panama, my top tip. Dont tell anyone I told you. Our secret.
  #14  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:15
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Currently, I live in the US, with it's ever increasing police state policies becoming the norm domestically and imperialism abroad - frankly I'm sick of it and I don't expect it to get any better no matter who wins here in November.
First of all we do not like your kind here. Actually we do not like any kind of kind here, but specially not the foreign kind. We call them Fremde Fötzel (even if from the wrong Canton, or town, or part of town) and Ausländer.

Quote:
View Post
That said, I've studied Switzerland for quite some time (I'm probably closest to the FDP there). While it is by no means my 100% ideal nation (such a thing does not exist), it is however a nation that closely matches my ideology, in particular, their greater emphasis on federalism granting greater power to the cantons and the people over their central government.
FDP? Back in the good ol' days, maybe. Know it is just like your GOP.

Quote:
View Post
Anyway, this is all basic encyclopedic info, but to get to the root of my questions, I would like to know from those who live there in Switzerland if the following concerns I have about the US are also issues in Switzerland:

1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?
They do with "probable cause". And nobody gets spied upon if there weren any "suspicions", even in the U.S.A.
Quote:
View Post
2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)?
Depend on the canton, but normally up to 48 hours.
Quote:
View Post
3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?
Yup specially foreigners, see here.
Quote:
View Post
4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?
No question asked, just a "Grüezi and welcome back".
Quote:
View Post
5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?
Sure, every proud Nation would. see here.
Quote:
View Post
6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?
The people is the highest governmental body. We do not like to be criticized. Especially not by Ausländers.
Quote:
View Post
Thanks for any answers or insight you can provide. I'm hoping that none of the above are the case in Switzerland as I intend to move there in 5 years time.
You're welcome (But not in this country)

PS: This posting my contain sarcasm, irony, hyperbole, and other non suitable language.
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
The following 6 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:18
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winti
Posts: 1,933
Groaned at 57 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,161 Times in 1,187 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

I'm neither American or living in America, so quite frankly, I don't really care. Thanks for the info though.
p.s. probably better to vote and write to your representives to change the system than to ask a bunch of English speakers living in Switzerland loads of leading questions. IMHO.

Last edited by MsWorWoo; 06.09.2012 at 18:18. Reason: cant speel
The following 2 users would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:18
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,550
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,883 Times in 8,863 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
1. Do the federal or cantonal governments of Switzerland regularly spy on their citizens (phone calls, emails, texts, purchases, etc) without suspicion, probable cause, or court order?
They don't need to. We have neighbours.
Quote:
2. Can the federal or cantonal governments arrest you without warrant and imprison you without trial merely on the order of some executive authority who deems you a threat (without court oversight)
As far as I am aware, no government can arrest anyone. However the police can arrest you if you haven't got any id, and hold you indefinitely if they can't establish your identiy.
Quote:
3. Similarly, if you are deemed a threat to the government by that executive authority, can you be executed outside of the nation's borders without trial or charges?
Of course. Name a country where you can't.
Quote:
4. When travelling into or out of Switzerland, as a citizen, are you required to subject yourself to a pointless security theater administered by a bloated federal agency?
Good news! No. Rather you are required to subject yourself to a pointless security theatre before flying anywhere by a number of bloated bureaucratic agencies.
Quote:
5. Does your fiscal and tax policy favor large multinational firms over small businesses and entrepreneurs, and would the federal government use tax money to bail out failing politically connected industries?
Yes. Name a country that doesn't.
Quote:
6. Would the federal or cantonal government imprison you without trial or charges for saying, writing, posting, or otherwise transmitting strong criticism of that government and political leaders?
See 2.

Quote:
I'm hoping that none of the above are the case in Switzerland as I intend to move there in 5 years time
Sorry to have dashed your hopes, and I guess we won't be seeing you.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
  #17  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:19
PaddyG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pensier, Fribourg
Posts: 9,243
Groaned at 118 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 16,857 Times in 5,912 Posts
PaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond reputePaddyG has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I've taken this into account, I will transfer with my company to Ireland, establish my residency there, renouce my U.S. citizenship post haste, and then from Ireland, move to Switzerland. I see no advantages to maintaining a U.S. citizenship whether I remain in the US or live abroad.
That's a hell of an answer to "Where do you see yourself in 5 years' time?"

My try it at my next interview.
The following 8 users would like to thank PaddyG for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
.

That said, I've studied Switzerland for quite some time (I'm probably closest to the FDP there). While it is by no means my 100% ideal nation (such a thing does not exist), it is however a nation that closely matches my ideology, in particular, their greater emphasis on federalism granting greater power to the cantons and the people over their central government.
This is patently untrue. If you had a world where you never had to work, life consisted of watching top class football games and drinking pints of beer, with the only women allowed were tall blonde's with massive breasts all of whom fancied you, then I would say this was pretty much a perfect world.

We have explored a microscopic fraction of the universe. Basic statistics should tell you that it is entirely possible such a world exists and once we've got a rocket fast enough, I'll be getting a one way business class ticket there.

So please, can we keep to the facts in these kind of rambling postings.

Thanks
The following 4 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:26
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,550
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,883 Times in 8,863 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Are you the same aedile245 as here? http://www.myspace.com/aedile245
  #20  
Old 06.09.2012, 18:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO, USA
Posts: 43
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
aedile245 has become a little unpopular
Re: Questions from a libertarian that would like to move to Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
You do realise, that as a foreign national in another country, it's probably more likely that you'll be subjected to everything you fear than if you just stayed in the us of a.
Yes, I am aware of that, but I do not see the direction of the US getting better in any time frame. We have practically thrown away our constitution, we have become a unitary government like the UK, and as I mentioned before, our increasing police state domestically does not fill me with any loyalty or hope for a free future in this nation.

As with any government, I expect some limitations. I am approaching this rationally and reasonably. I am a student of history and I see history repeating here in the US: Rome toward the end, Weimar toward the end, etc. I'm not rich, I'm not politically connected, and I happen to be in the minority opinion that people should be allowed to pursue their dreams and goals, provided they prohibit no one else doing the same through their actions, and provided they take responsibility for their own failures along the way.

I understand that in today's America (and perhaps this is a global phenomena) that this is no longer a logical or rational position to hold. As a previous poster noted, the Swiss police each other... I happen to like that approach as it doesn't require that every local police department have an ATV and a fully equipped SWAT team to break down the door of the wrong house and summarily execute someone who sought to defend themselves and their family from unannounced intruders:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting

Now getting back to your point that it will be tougher for me in Switzerland until I'm a citizen, I get that, and I'm prepared for that. But I would hope and assume that non-citizens in Switzerland aren't subject to the same potential abuses that legal citizens are here in the US, that's my ultimate point here.
This user would like to thank aedile245 for this useful post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would like to move to Australia/New Zealand.... sinab General off-topic 4 24.06.2012 00:15
Will move to zurich in early january and would like to meet people olga_stefan Introductions 11 01.12.2008 10:54
who would like to share the cost to move out from England to Switzerland dlililou Other/general 8 16.09.2008 17:01


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0