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  #41  
Old 10.09.2012, 22:32
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

Hey mate,

I'm an Aussie and have been living here for almost 4 years. I can relate to all the idiosyncrasies at different times. One piece of advice I would give is to learn German asap. Even if you can communicate in English it should help you adjust to the place a lot easier, even with the challenge of Swiss German being spoken.

Plenty of recommendations on the EF re: language schools but I went to a few and thought Sprachwelten was the best.

PM me if you want more info.

Ironically, after mastering the language I'm actually heading back home in a few weeks.

Good luck!

Ant
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  #42  
Old 10.09.2012, 22:49
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

Throw away all that funny garb you were wearing when you came here and buy some normal stuff. The Swiss won't have any reason to stare at you then.
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  #43  
Old 10.09.2012, 23:20
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

My family and I have just completed our first full week in the Canton of St Gallen and we really like it so far.
I expected a tougher first week due to relocating and having no network and all that but the great weather, stunning scenery and general friendliness of the swiss people we have encountered has made the week fly by.
My wife being German and her speaking the language helps when we needed to sort out permits in the Gemeinde and all that and I have some basic German language skills which I intend on improving.
I am dreading trying to master Swiss German though....but that will be a good while away yet.
On a side note, we opened a Raffeisen bank A/C today and was surprised by just how many times (ok maybe 3 times) they asked something along the lines of.."so you're definitely not american right?"
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  #44  
Old 10.09.2012, 23:41
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Transport varies state to state, and I certainly understand the challenge to manage transport over larger distances, however in the state I come from (Victoria) there is strong resistance to invest any money into the system, instead relying on external privatised operators to bear the brunt. Trains are slow, almost always not on time, old, and security is poor. For a country that has a comparable economy of scale to Switzerland it is not really a good track record.
Based on what you say about the transit system, I might be hesitant to support putting more money into it either. If the trains are that bad, it sounds like throwing good money after bad.
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  #45  
Old 10.09.2012, 23:47
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Based on what you say about the transit system, I might be hesitant to support putting more money into it either. If the trains are that bad, it sounds like throwing good money after bad.
Yes unfortunately it has gotten to that stage.
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  #46  
Old 11.09.2012, 00:44
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Smoking - So many smokers everywhere! It almost seems like this whole country smokes! People are allowed to smoke in most public places, and I really dislike having smoke blown in my face while waiting for a train etc. One thing I did like about Australia were the anti-smoking laws in public areas. I am quite surprised by the number of smokers here, given that the swiss are health conscious.
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Even among adults, it is less than 30%. It was 65% among adults in the 1960ies ! In restaurants, in the lower rail-station areas like the Bahnhof Landesmuseum and the Bahnhof Bahnhofplatz and in shops and shopping centres and hospitals smoking is banned.

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English - In Zurich and Winterthur there isn't as much English as I expected there to be. Most young people speak English, but for people over the age of 40 its hit and miss. I actually needed a german friend to translate for me when registering to live here, because the lady couldn't speak english. Hardly any signs are in english either, so I sometimes have to look up words.
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Difficult to see what you expected. When going to school in the 60ies, English only started in the third class of Secondary School and you only could participate if you had a 4.5 average (6 best, 1 lousiest). Things improved for English in the 1970ies, and already in 1971, English had arrived on an equal position to French. You however are wrong with the age as it is not 40 but about 70. Lots of signs in English and/or French and/or Italian all around. Whatever, the official language of/in the Canton of Zürich is German.

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Transport - I absolutely love the public transport here, it makes the public transport in australia look like a joke. I once had to change 3 trains with only 5 mins in between, and every single one was on time. This would be a very rare occurrence in Australia, as you'd often miss connections. I love the fact that you don't even need a car to get around.
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Well, in the Schaffhausen-Winterthur-Zürich-Zug area you do not need a car generally but in remoter areas of the Canton of Bern or the Canton of Graubünden, the situation is less splendid. True, if a train does not come in within two minutes after the announced time, people start to consult their watches, and will pace up and down, and get into considerations and speculations about what is happening !

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Scenery - Love the scenery, and can't wait to explore the rest of the country.
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Expand. Do not limit your exploring to "the rest of the country" but include the neighbouring areas and towns and cities


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On a side note, when I first arrived in the country in Lausanne I was shocked at the lack of English spoken. Almost no-one spoke english there, which made it very difficult. I went into a mobile shop to buy a sim card and the guy couldn't speak a word of english, so I had to find another shop. Even people in Paris spoke more English.
You have to see that many Vaudois pretend not to speak either German or English. One of the reasons is history as "das Waadtland" for some centuries was under Bernese rule. The Bernese army had conquered the Waadtland by using its speciality and that was not Röschti but artillery That Geneva for ages was allied with Bern, and so indirectly in a kind of TRIpartite alliance with Zürich . That most German speaking Cantons in recent years made English equal or superior to French was and is not exactly loved by the Romands who fear to lose weight. The habit of the Romands to demand of visiting Zürcher to speak French, but on arrival in Zürich simply to talk French (the usual thing even into the 70ies) was not exactly helpful. The pre-war generations accepted this, but the postwar generation did not. Gone were the times when ambitious "Alémaniques" at age 20 went west for the "année en Romandie" = "Welschland Jahr" but up from the late 50ies, people went for some months to London. YES you obviously became victim of an intra-Swiss problem
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  #47  
Old 11.09.2012, 00:59
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

I agree on your comment about the amount of smoking people do here in Switzerland and in other countries in Europe... it's just ridiculous! And considering how "ecologically conscious" the Swiss are, I'm surprised to see there are no laws against throwing cigarette buts on the street, and people have no problem throwing those things all over the place as if they would somehow turn into plants...
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  #48  
Old 11.09.2012, 12:06
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

If you're on the hunt for quality cheeses, I hear grumpygrapefruit can hook you up.
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  #49  
Old 11.09.2012, 13:48
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

Ive been here 10 years nearly and still enjoy Switzerland. The only things that wind me up are, as others have stated. cigarette butts everywhere, even on top of the mountains you will find them and the graffiti is appalling. The authorities seem very reluctant to takle this problem.

AS for language I learnt High German. Bugs me a bit when people say "you should know Swiss German" I mean if you go to the UK to learn English did you bother to learn Cockney or Geordie or Mancunian English??

Other than that I love it here.
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  #50  
Old 11.09.2012, 14:20
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

Holy cow the staring!!! I always find it amazing how they will stare at me when I have luggage and I am on the Intercity Train to Zurich Airport. How is it fascinating that people headed to the airport should have luggage?

Grocery stores are getting more and more things that are found everywhere else. BBQ sauce, Mexican etc. Although you pay an arm and a leg, it is becoming more available.

I find that almost everyone I make contact with here (Bern/Thun) speak at least enough English to converse. Most of them are excited to practice and would rather me speak English to them than me butcher German
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  #51  
Old 12.09.2012, 10:01
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

My first impression after coming from Poland was - how tidy, how peaceful, how organised and green Switzerland is
And I'm still impressed.
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  #52  
Old 19.09.2012, 09:13
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

I'm starting to find it quite difficult and frustrating at times, and have moments where I think "what the hell am I doing here".

Most government office workers do not speak any english at all. Not speaking english almost seems as if its a requirement for their job. Most people on the street can even speak better English than most government workers. I just find it bizarre that there are almost no english speaking people for places like the office to register, RAV, etc when there are likely to be a lot of foreigners with little to no German that go to these places.

When I went to the RAV, I politely asked "sprechen Sie Englisch?" to which I was told "nein". He basically said "sorry, you'll need a translator to come here". Then he said "ok, I'll try and explain as much as I can with my limited English". Later on I went to open a bank account, and the young woman there could also couldn't speak much english. It took me 1 hour just to open an account, because she had to look up each word in German and translate to English so she could explain the terms/conditions etc.

Then there are all the forms... oh boy they don't make it easy. Form after form after form, only in German of course. Some forms require you to visit another place to get another form to fill out the form you were given.

The office workers are also very inconsistent, I get told different things for each person I see. First they wouldn't let me register because I'm only sharing a place first for 3 months (then finding somewhere else after that). Apparently I couldn't register because I'm not at the address for more than 3 months and therefore I'm seen as a tourist. I went back there about 10 min later and saw a different person and she said "no problem" and registered me no questions asked. Has anyone else experienced this inconsistency?

All street signs are written in German. Obviously I can't complain about this because German is their language. But I'm worried that one day I may do something illegal unintentionally, just because I couldn't read a sign on the street or something.

I am going to attend German classes to learn German asap. However, it is still a very daunting experience until I become more knowledgeable in the language. From what I heard, I thought Switzerland was going to be a lot more English friendly.

As for the swiss... my flatmates are nice but very indirect when they want me to do something. Coming from Australia I am not used to this. For example, one of my flatmates started vacuuming one day, so I asked if she needed any help in cleaning. She said abruptly "no its fine". I asked how often they do the cleaning so we could take turns, and she said "just when it needs cleaning" which sounded like it was a hint that I should have cleaned. The swiss version of "just went it needs cleaning" is very different from the Australian version of "just when it needs cleaning". The place already looked spotless to me, but apparently it wasn't and I couldn't see where it was dirty. So i'm not sure exactly when I'm supposed to clean, if I can't see any mess or dirt.

Another thing I find odd, they always wipe down the shower glass with a window cleaner after each time they take a shower. Not knowing this, I didn't do it the first time and I was told that I have to each time. Is this normal? I have never heard of anyone in Australia doing this.

Then there is the recycling, oh god... you almost need training just to figure this one out. If you dare put something in the wrong pile you'll get another slap on the wrist. One time I arrived home and I was told "the cardboard doesn't go in the same pile as the recycled paper"... right. So they have different piles for paper, cardboard, plastic/glass, aluminium, compost, and normal rubbish - Wow! In Australia we have two bins, one for normal rubbish, and a recycling bin for everything.

Has anyone else experienced these difficulties/frustrations? I hope it gets easier with time.
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  #53  
Old 19.09.2012, 09:19
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

Do government office workers in Australia speak German, if required?
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  #54  
Old 19.09.2012, 09:29
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Do government office workers in Australia speak German, if required?
Fair point, but what i'm trying to say is this isn't what I expected after being told that "everyone speaks english in Switzerland" and that you don't even need to know any German. This is certainly not the case.

Australia is also a very isolated country (unlike Switzerland), so its not going to be expected that they can speak other languages.
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Old 19.09.2012, 09:33
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Fair point, but what i'm trying to say is this wasn't what I expected after being told that "everyone speaks english in Switzerland" and that you don't even need to know any German. This is certainly not the case.

Australia is also a very isolated country (unlike Switzerland), so its not going to be expected that they can speak other languages.
I've lived here for some time (I'm from the UK) and I still get the impression living here that compared to countries like France, Spain et al., a massive portion of the Swiss population speak English.
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  #56  
Old 19.09.2012, 09:47
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Fair point, but what i'm trying to say is this isn't what I expected after being told that "everyone speaks english in Switzerland" and that you don't even need to know any German. This is certainly not the case.

Australia is also a very isolated country (unlike Switzerland), so its not going to be expected that they can speak other languages.
Who told you everyone speaks english? They gave you a bum steer. In Zurich and Zug a lot of people speak english. as you move away from these international centres, the local english speaking population drops dramatically.

English is not formal national language. It is taught in schools but the national languages do come first.
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Old 19.09.2012, 09:53
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Fair point, but what i'm trying to say is this isn't what I expected after being told that "everyone speaks english in Switzerland" and that you don't even need to know any German. This is certainly not the case.

Australia is also a very isolated country (unlike Switzerland), so its not going to be expected that they can speak other languages.
The old "everyone speaks english" line cracks me up every time I hear it and the more naive amongst us fall for it. As spalebärg notes the proportion of people who can speak some english is higher than France\Spain\Italy, but lots and lots of people can't. Rein, nada, niente.

You have been sold a pup.
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  #58  
Old 19.09.2012, 10:09
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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I'm starting to find it quite difficult and frustrating at times, and have moments where I think "what the hell am I doing here".

Most government office workers do not speak any english at all. Not speaking english almost seems as if its a requirement for their job. Most people on the street can even speak better English than most government workers. I just find it bizarre that there are almost no english speaking people for places like the office to register, RAV, etc when there are likely to be a lot of foreigners with little to no German that go to these places.

When I went to the RAV, I politely asked "sprechen Sie Englisch?" to which I was told "nein". He basically said "sorry, you'll need a translator to come here". Then he said "ok, I'll try and explain as much as I can with my limited English". Later on I went to open a bank account, and the young woman there could also couldn't speak much english. It took me 1 hour just to open an account, because she had to look up each word in German and translate to English so she could explain the terms/conditions etc.

Then there are all the forms... oh boy they don't make it easy. Form after form after form, only in German of course. Some forms require you to visit another place to get another form to fill out the form you were given.

The office workers are also very inconsistent, I get told different things for each person I see. First they wouldn't let me register because I'm only sharing a place first for 3 months (then finding somewhere else after that). Apparently I couldn't register because I'm not at the address for more than 3 months and therefore I'm seen as a tourist. I went back there about 10 min later and saw a different person and she said "no problem" and registered me no questions asked. Has anyone else experienced this inconsistency?

All street signs are written in German. Obviously I can't complain about this because German is their language. But I'm worried that one day I may do something illegal unintentionally, just because I couldn't read a sign on the street or something.

I am going to attend German classes to learn German asap. However, it is still a very daunting experience until I become more knowledgeable in the language. From what I heard, I thought Switzerland was going to be a lot more English friendly.

As for the swiss... my flatmates are nice but very indirect when they want me to do something. Coming from Australia I am not used to this. For example, one of my flatmates started vacuuming one day, so I asked if she needed any help in cleaning. She said abruptly "no its fine". I asked how often they do the cleaning so we could take turns, and she said "just when it needs cleaning" which sounded like it was a hint that I should have cleaned. The swiss version of "just went it needs cleaning" is very different from the Australian version of "just when it needs cleaning". The place already looked spotless to me, but apparently it wasn't and I couldn't see where it was dirty. So i'm not sure exactly when I'm supposed to clean, if I can't see any mess or dirt.

Another thing I find odd, they always wipe down the shower glass with a window cleaner after each time they take a shower. Not knowing this, I didn't do it the first time and I was told that I have to each time. Is this normal? I have never heard of anyone in Australia doing this.

Then there is the recycling, oh god... you almost need training just to figure this one out. If you dare put something in the wrong pile you'll get another slap on the wrist. One time I arrived home and I was told "the cardboard doesn't go in the same pile as the recycled paper"... right. So they have different piles for paper, cardboard, plastic/glass, aluminium, compost, and normal rubbish - Wow! In Australia we have two bins, one for normal rubbish, and a recycling bin for everything.

Has anyone else experienced these difficulties/frustrations? I hope it gets easier with time.
haha. classic experience. at least you're living with swiss people.

i'd sit down with them and tell them that things seem very different and ask them to help you out.
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  #59  
Old 19.09.2012, 10:42
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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When I went to the RAV, I politely asked "sprechen Sie Englisch?" to which I was told "nein". He basically said "sorry, you'll need a translator to come here". Then he said "ok, I'll try and explain as much as I can with my limited English".
A tip:

Rather than the somewhat curt: 'Sprechen Sie Englisch?', try 'Entschuldigen Sie mir bitte, aber ich kann nicht Deutsch sprechen. Dürfen wir auf Englisch reden?'

At least around my neck of the woods, many people seem to be offended by 'Sprechen Sie English?'. Perhaps it sounds a tad arrogant, implying that the lack is theirs rather than yours. If you try the more polite 'I'm sorry, but I can't speak German, may we speak in English?' you might find that suddenly the person is more receptive to using English - and doors tend to open more easily as well.

All the best as you settle in...
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Old 19.09.2012, 10:50
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Re: First impressions of Switzerland

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Affirmative. I always stop to have a chat with a cat, and the Swiss cats simply stare at you, unbelieving. What's with that? I never see anyone harass them.
Yeah most of them here are pretty shy. The friendliest cats i've ever seen were in Amsterdam. Every cat there will let you walk up to it and pat/hold it.
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