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  #21  
Old 20.09.2012, 23:07
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

Thank you Sbrinz!

I am definitely not spoiling my weekend with others' problems.
I work too hard 5 days per week to care about the Quran or Prophet or movies about them.
I hope that Swiss police handles this well but with no compromise.

I am going to either Basel or Luzern, which one would you recommend?
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  #22  
Old 21.09.2012, 01:11
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Thank you Sbrinz!

I am definitely not spoiling my weekend with others' problems.
I work too hard 5 days per week to care about the Quran or Prophet or movies about them.
I hope that Swiss police handles this well but with no compromise.

I am going to either Basel or Luzern, which one would you recommend?
To generalize things a bit, Luzern is more beautiful while Basel is more entertaining. In Basel, you can go eating (and shopping) in the near Alsace, but In Luzern you can go onto the lake with a steamship
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  #23  
Old 21.09.2012, 13:55
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

(The Föderation Islamischer Dachorganisationen Schweiz (FIDS) covers 12 organisations. The Koordination Islamischer Organisationen Schweiz (KIOS) is an umbrella for 3 Swiss organisations).

Now the Swiss Muslim umbrella associations FIDS & KIOS are distancing themselves from the planned demonstration on Saturday.

http://www.derbund.ch/bern/nachricht...story/19788389

The original demo was about freedom of religion, claiming that Swiss law against racism does not protect Muslims enough against religious discrimination. FIDS & KIOS are now saying the laws are good enough.

I suspect FIDS & KIOS are expecting trouble and are washing their feet of the demo.

Again I would say, DEFINITELY keep out of Bern on Saturday afternoon 22. September.
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Old 21.09.2012, 14:38
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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(The Föderation Islamischer Dachorganisationen Schweiz (FIDS) covers 12 organisations. The Koordination Islamischer Organisationen Schweiz (KIOS) is an umbrella for 3 Swiss organisations).

Now the Swiss Muslim umbrella associations FIDS & KIOS are distancing themselves from the planned demonstration on Saturday.

http://www.derbund.ch/bern/nachricht...story/19788389

The original demo was about freedom of religion, claiming that Swiss law against racism does not protect Muslims enough against religious discrimination. FIDS & KIOS are now saying the laws are good enough.

I suspect FIDS & KIOS are expecting trouble and are washing their feet of the demo.

Again I would say, DEFINITELY keep out of Bern on Saturday afternoon 22. September.
FIDS & KIOS know only too well that those "Zentralrat" chaps tend to talk unacceptable rubbish. The "Zentralrat" is NOT a member of either organisation, and only represents a fairly small number of people. In previous affairs like the Minaret-Initiative FIDS & KIOS reacted far too late against "statements" of the "Zentralrat" to the press. And too many press-people still believe that the name "Zentralrat" means that those people represent the Muslims in Switzerland. You can be sure that the ZR-chaps will issue some idiotic statements as usual
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  #25  
Old 21.09.2012, 15:11
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Your location is India and you come from America but you tell people in Switzerland to stay away. Care to elaborate as to why this advise?
Since you asked so nicely...

I suppose I should go back and read my post, but I´m fairly certain that I didn`t "tell people in Switzerland to stay away". I believe that I agreed that it`s not a bad idea to stay away from such things, and paraphrased his comments. I didn`t get this old and this unscathed by jumping into the center of demonstrations - even the ones in San Francisco in the 60s.

You seem to think that there`s something about my location being India. Ahmedabad, actually. 40% Muslim roughly. My main rickshaw driver is Muslim and he is one of 3-4 Muslim families in my neighborhood - he lives in the house his grandfather built when he was with Gandhi. I live next door to Gandhi Ashram and work at an NGO there. Been there now 3 1/2 years.

And that I´m American isn`t my fault - it`s the fault of my relatives that moved from Norway and Germany.
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  #26  
Old 21.09.2012, 16:34
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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(The Föderation Islamischer Dachorganisationen Schweiz (FIDS) covers 12 organisations. The Koordination Islamischer Organisationen Schweiz (KIOS) is an umbrella for 3 Swiss organisations).

Now the Swiss Muslim umbrella associations FIDS & KIOS are distancing themselves from the planned demonstration on Saturday.

http://www.derbund.ch/bern/nachricht...story/19788389

The original demo was about freedom of religion, claiming that Swiss law against racism does not protect Muslims enough against religious discrimination. FIDS & KIOS are now saying the laws are good enough.

I suspect FIDS & KIOS are expecting trouble and are washing their feet of the demo.

Again I would say, DEFINITELY keep out of Bern on Saturday afternoon 22. September.
That may not be it exactly. Not too long ago a Muslim family tried to keep their child out of swimming classes because of their "religion." The Swiss said the child had to take the class and the family would be fined each day the child was out of class. The family took the case to the court and lost, plus they had to pay the fine as well. Switzerland is not into political correctness they even banned minarets, and they are not into creating parallel societies. I think Muslims in Switzerland know which side their bread is buttered on and the last thing they want to do is start a riot. Besides, Switzerland has a law now about deporting criminals.

People can talk about Switzerland but the Swiss call a "spade a spade" and they are going to do what needs to be done to protect their country's sovereignty. There was another guy, I think he was Muslim, who said that "Switzerland needed to change their flag because it doesn't represent what Switzerland is anymore." He had to go into hiding after that...He was told that he was "ungrateful." Here he is in a country that allowed him to live there and now he wants to become rude and try to change it into something it is not. Its like guest coming into your home and changing your furniture! He later apologized and said that he was only joking....yeah right.

If they tried that violent crap in Switzerland there will be repercussions. As I stated earlier "Switzerland's lack of political-correctness has helped to save them." Look at the countries who try to appease others at the expense of their citizens and their sovereignty and look where they are. London is called "Londinistan" now...and for good reason. Other countries in Europe Netherlands, Paris are having troubles. Even Australia is thinking about "waking-up" and changing some rules after troubles over the last couple of weeks. People can have freedoms in countries and even have demonstrations, but countries must be careful not to try to create a society for reach group and appease their selfish interest. Just my 5cents...LOL
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  #27  
Old 21.09.2012, 23:58
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

I just received a notice from my foreign ministry advising that westerners should stay away from the area around Helvetiaplatz Saturday afternoon because the demonstration may turn violent. Given the work being done on the tram tracks on the Kirchenfeldbrucke perhaps the demonstrators will be kept away from downtown.
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  #28  
Old 22.09.2012, 00:34
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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That may not be it exactly. Not too long ago a Muslim family tried to keep their child out of swimming classes because of their "religion." The Swiss said the child had to take the class and the family would be fined each day the child was out of class. The family took the case to the court and lost, plus they had to pay the fine as well. Switzerland is not into political correctness they even banned minarets, and they are not into creating parallel societies. I think Muslims in Switzerland know which side their bread is buttered on and the last thing they want to do is start a riot. Besides, Switzerland has a law now about deporting criminals.

People can talk about Switzerland but the Swiss call a "spade a spade" and they are going to do what needs to be done to protect their country's sovereignty. There was another guy, I think he was Muslim, who said that "Switzerland needed to change their flag because it doesn't represent what Switzerland is anymore." He had to go into hiding after that...He was told that he was "ungrateful." Here he is in a country that allowed him to live there and now he wants to become rude and try to change it into something it is not. Its like guest coming into your home and changing your furniture! He later apologized and said that he was only joking....yeah right.

If they tried that violent crap in Switzerland there will be repercussions. As I stated earlier "Switzerland's lack of political-correctness has helped to save them." Look at the countries who try to appease others at the expense of their citizens and their sovereignty and look where they are. London is called "Londinistan" now...and for good reason. Other countries in Europe Netherlands, Paris are having troubles. Even Australia is thinking about "waking-up" and changing some rules after troubles over the last couple of weeks. People can have freedoms in countries and even have demonstrations, but countries must be careful not to try to create a society for reach group and appease their selfish interest. Just my 5cents...LOL
Overall I agree with your comment but please help me understand what your last sentence is about...sorry, English is my third language!
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  #29  
Old 22.09.2012, 01:15
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on a low turn out at the IZRS rally and no trouble.
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  #30  
Old 22.09.2012, 01:52
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Overall I agree with your comment but please help me understand what your last sentence is about...sorry, English is my third language!
You mean this one: People can have freedoms in countries and even have demonstrations, but countries must be careful not to try to create a society for each group and appease their selfish interest. Just my 5cents... What I meant was that sometimes people come from other countries and expect their host country to change for them. However, their host country is under no obligation to cater to their "selfish" demands as in my previous post about the Muslim woman who wanted her child not to go to swim class because of her religion. What next, separate bathrooms for Muslims? Switzerland has managed to stop this type of behavior before it gets out of hand. Hope that helps.
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  #31  
Old 22.09.2012, 11:35
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Please be aware there will be two big demonstrations in Bern this Saturday. Either of them might turn violent. If you see large groups of people, turn around and keep away: the police have adopted the UK system of "Kettling" where hundreds of people are kept in one place for hours, until all the suspects have been interviewed. Carrying your Permit L/B/C is to be recommended!

Be careful after 4 pm around the Bern main railway station, all the problems seem to end up in the street at the side, Bollwerk, on the way to the Reithalle, http://map.search.ch/bern/bollwerk-4

One demo is by the Muslims protesting the film, Islamische Zentralrat der Schweiz. Starting at Helvetia Platz, Bern, at 13:30.
http://www.derbund.ch/bern/stadt/Moh...story/20739838

The other is by the workers union UNIA protesting about renewal of contracts with employers' federation and fixed taxation for foreigners; they might be attacked by right wing unnofficial demonstrators (After they are finished with the Muslims) The original idea was to demonstrate in Gstaad, but they have moved it to Bern city, beginning at Schutzenmatte, Bern, at 14:00
http://www.derbund.ch/bern/kanton/Unia-befuerchtet-Ausschreitungen-in-Gstaad/story/25726305

http://www.unia.ch/GAV-MEM-2013.6301.0.html

When we get more specific details about times and places, please post them here.
This thread has been changed to discussing Islamism again.

This thread is about visiting Bern today, nothing else, OK. Start your own thread if you want to discuss foreigners and their habits, OK?

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  #32  
Old 22.09.2012, 11:50
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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There was another guy, I think he was Muslim,
So what?
Btw he isn't. Ivica Petrusic is a Swiss Croatian from Bosnia. He is a Catholic.
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who said that "Switzerland needed to change their flag because it doesn't represent what Switzerland is anymore."
He didn't. In Second@s Plus (org. of second generation immigrants) they discussed religious symbols and country flags. He seems to fancy some ideas of the Helvetic Republic and in reference to this time said that flags and other national symbols (eg. anthems) can and do change over time. And yes the point was made that a flag without religious symbol could be more inclusive. Pretty vague, but no one said the flag and the cross is bad and needs to be changed.
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He had to go into hiding after that...He was told that he was "ungrateful."
Into hiding? Not that I am aware of and if it was the case that is not exactly something to be proud of. He did receice anonymous death threats though, but it seems almost anyone who opens his mouth in public gets some of these.
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Here he is in a country that allowed him to live there and now he wants to become rude and try to change it into something it is not. Its like guest coming into your home and changing your furniture!
Well for one he is a swiss citizen not a guest. He has every right to rearrange the furniture as much as you do. As he is a member of cantonal legislative in Aargau it may be even easier for him than for you.
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He later apologized and said that he was only joking....yeah right.
He didn't and he wasn't. Just because it fits your narrative it doesn't make it true. Sorry for OT but I had to get that in.
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  #33  
Old 22.09.2012, 12:34
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

Have you ever lived in Britain? Look out for those Brits all singing "I'm rioting in the rain..."!

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It's OK, forecast is for rain..... not many riots in the rain.
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  #34  
Old 22.09.2012, 17:51
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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So what?
Btw he isn't. Ivica Petrusic is a Swiss Croatian from Bosnia. He is a Catholic.

He didn't. In Second@s Plus (org. of second generation immigrants) they discussed religious symbols and country flags. He seems to fancy some ideas of the Helvetic Republic and in reference to this time said that flags and other national symbols (eg. anthems) can and do change over time. And yes the point was made that a flag without religious symbol could be more inclusive. Pretty vague, but no one said the flag and the cross is bad and needs to be changed.

Into hiding? Not that I am aware of and if it was the case that is not exactly something to be proud of. He did receice anonymous death threats though, but it seems almost anyone who opens his mouth in public gets some of these.

Well for one he is a swiss citizen not a guest. He has every right to rearrange the furniture as much as you do. As he is a member of cantonal legislative in Aargau it may be even easier for him than for you.

He didn't and he wasn't. Just because it fits your narrative it doesn't make it true. Sorry for OT but I had to get that in.
I wrote that "I THINK he is Muslim," they followed later. And yes he did go into hiding, because of the threats, and later recanted his statement. I remember reading about that incident some time ago last year, if I can find the info I will certainly send a link. There is no reason to "make stories up," what bearing would that have on the truth?

And no one has a right to come into a country, especially a country nice enough to allow a person citizenship, and re-arrange their furniture, especially about nonsense. That point was proven with the idea of changing the flag, you see where that got him and those that followed. He got quiet as a mouse after that. Just because the Swiss gave him citizenship does not mean they have turned into bloody fools!

As for the flag, the current symbol was first used in Switzerland in 1339, when the union of separate cantons just started to take shape. It achieved its official status in 1848. I don't think foreigners are going to come into Switzerland and tell them how to run their country and change their flag. The nerve of even suggesting it! I am also a Swiss citizen, I love the Swiss flag just the way it is.

And I am quite sure this "demonstration" will not turn into a riot, the Swiss do not put up with the political correctness like other countries. If the demonstrators want to go the violent route, there will just be more laws passed making it more difficult for them to stay in Switzerland and many will be deported. End of story...

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 22.09.2012 at 18:11.
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  #35  
Old 22.09.2012, 17:56
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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I just received a notice from my foreign ministry advising that westerners should stay away from the area around Helvetiaplatz Saturday afternoon because the demonstration may turn violent.
Well then, you can inform your foreign ministry that the 150 people willing to hold out in the rain for an hour are gone home now, and every Westerner is free again to cross the Helvetiaplatz without getting his throat slit.

http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/b...story/30304800

You can also tell them that the main goal of the organizer is to convert non-Muslims to Islam (and Muslims to Salafism). They might not be PR geniuses, but how it appears so far, they do know that getting violent against western infidels doesn't convince them to join the club.

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Now the Swiss Muslim umbrella associations FIDS & KIOS are distancing themselves from the planned demonstration on Saturday. (...) I suspect FIDS & KIOS are expecting trouble
Hardly. The IZRS is a small Islamic fundamentalist organization with a huge sense of mission, thankfully absorbed by the media. Of course those Muslim organizations who view themselves as moderate feel the need to distance from any statements made by the IRZS. And put themselves on the spot while on the way. That doesn't mean they expected any violence.
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  #36  
Old 22.09.2012, 18:08
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

Thank you, that IS good news!
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Old 22.09.2012, 18:14
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

Just as I predicted, there would be no violence...They can pull that crap in other countries like France and the Netherlands.
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Old 22.09.2012, 18:27
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Just as I predicted, there would be no violence...They can pull that crap in other countries like France and the Netherlands.
You're so delusional, it's actually funny.
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Old 22.09.2012, 18:31
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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This thread has been changed to discussing Islamism again.

This thread is about visiting Bern today, nothing else, OK. Start your own thread if you want to discuss foreigners and their habits, OK?

.
Right. And as I regard UNIA as a large trades union but rather sensible people and the "Zentralrat" folks as a bit idiotic but not violent, I would not have had any hesitation to get around in Bern. To give an example. I just by chance a few years ago came out of a shop and there was a really big Kurdish demo going on. I picked one of the younger chaps a bit on the side to ask him about the perspectives and the chances of them to succeed. He clearly stated that it was not a thing for the short term but that he was quite confident to see things turn his way in the longer run. Two of his colleagues joined for a nice chat and then rejoined their folks. Completely harmless.
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Old 22.09.2012, 18:38
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Re: 2 Demonstrations in Bern on Saturday at 2pm on 22.09

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Have you ever lived in Britain? Look out for those Brits all singing "I'm rioting in the rain..."!
I did, for three months, but that was in autumn 1972 . In Indian restaurants still many former soldiers and state officials of the old "Raj of India", in the city lots of gents with umbrella and bowler hats. But nobody rioting anywhere at any time.
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