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  #61  
Old 24.09.2012, 22:42
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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Ah, don't worry about it, friends are way over-rated IMO...and there is always some issue anyways...either they live too far, live too close, they smoke - you don't, he is trying to screw your girl, his girl is trying to screw you, they have money - you're broke, you have money - they're broke, you're a morning person - they're night owls, you're a night owl - they're morning people....there is always something to cause friction and in the end, it's all the same shit, and the ones who are actually helping you in a way or they other are usually complete strangers.
Good is that friends are chosen while brothers are not. Nice is when you and your brother after becoming adults gradually convert into serious friends Exceedingly sad is when your brother and best friend passes away at age 46 Nice is when you far later make friends with locals and foreigners
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  #62  
Old 24.09.2012, 22:53
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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seriously, please chill.

a) 6 months is not a long time. It takes people that long to find and settle into an apartment, figure out the trains and trams, work out how to get their groceries and laundry done...

b) You're in a foreign country. It's called foreign because it's different from back home, wherever back home is. They speak foreign languages. I'm assuming you're not fluent in French??

c) It's not that different from a lot of other places, including - in all likelihood, wherever you come from. People in their 30s and 40s, especially the ones who have grown up locally, have full lives - including friends, neighbors, colleagues and classmates they have known for ever; not to mention kids or extended families (and their friends/neighbors/classmates) Unless you are super scintillating or followed by papparazzi or throw outrageous parties, why exactly would locals fall over themselves to friend you?

d) some 20% of the CH population are expats. they are in the same boat, and probably just as pissed off at not making friends with the locals. join hands with them!

e) you're probably going to be here for a few years. why waste all that time and effort into making locals friends when the expats are so much easier to mix with? and while we're on that subject, why would a Swissie want to spend time getting to know someone who will probably be off to somewhere else before it's time to invite them home for a drink??
come on, dino! you've been here too long!

6 months is a heck of a long time. of course, some places are harder to settle into than others. 6 weeks in other countries and you will have made dozens of friends and have a packed social life!

to be honest, i guess it is a personality/attitude difference with the swiss.

a few weeks ago, i met 3 "swiss" girls who were born and grew up here and speak perfect swiss german. but they also cannot integrate and they told me they would never be accepted. the reason: their parents were eastern europeans.

that said, i'm not sure why people have a hang-up about making swiss friends. i'm happy to have friends and don't care what nationality they are...
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  #63  
Old 24.09.2012, 23:36
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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I regret to tall you that "easily make friends" and Switzerland is an oxymoron.
this right here is really the answer, though there are obviously exceptions and most of the folks on the EF don't like talking about the reality. and the poster who pointed out that the same applies to locals as it does to "foreigners" was spot-on, as well. it is simply a cultural difference and it takes some getting used to, learning the local language (or at least making a concerted effort to learn it) will go a long way with most folks, although perhaps this is actually somewhat easier for Americans since everybody expects us to be gun-toting-flag-wavers and loves to laugh at us and our funny accents.

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  #64  
Old 25.09.2012, 00:56
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

Oh yeah. The Swiss are cold and impossible to make friends with, whereas the expats are such a nice lot,.. Truth is, many ex-pats I know are some arrogant characters themselves.
My advice for the OP is to keep digging, you'll find people with shared interests at some point or another. Be open-minded yourself and don't let the nationality play a role far too important than it should. Otherwise, what goes around comes around.
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  #65  
Old 25.09.2012, 10:34
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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What made you come back? Switzerland is no prison, afaik.

The most important person in my life. And the chocolate
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  #66  
Old 25.09.2012, 11:30
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a verein to me is no solution. my ex swiss gf's parents were in a rowing club. both organised events like rowing the Ebro. never the people met outside of the club environment. never somebody came around to their house. they all shared rowing, but that was it.

when i came here after 3 months i was ready to go back to munich. i knew nobody round here and had nobody to speak to but my co-workers. then i found while googling the EF 5-a-side thread and the brit-lads i met this one sunday in april were all fresh from the boat and all had more or less the same deficit not knowing much people.

and a friendship developed out of that common interest and situation we were all in at the time. what i did was to bring some swiss lads down to footy. the BF of my ex GFs best uni friend. he said he likes to play so i asked him to come down. and guess what? he without any notice dropped out, never said a word about it. all other swiss people did the same.

dont get me wrong: we did not depend on their appearence but looking back it is backing up the theory that the swiss are hard to make friends with.

what somebody said about east european roots and not fitting in is spot on! my ex gf said in her class was a albanian girl. she and her family wanted to get a swiss passport after 20yrs they lived here. she for some reason had the germanic sounding name of her mother and she got the passport. rumor or truth has it that the rest if her family got rejected as their name ended with an IC... tomic or something...
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  #67  
Old 25.09.2012, 11:41
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

i think the other factor is that people are simply too busy with their own lives.

it's not like student days where everyone is single and has all the time in the world.

there are people i know who i get on with really well and would like to get to know better, but when they have kids etc. (and i honestly don't know how they even have time to manage work, commuting and family life) it is just not a possibility.
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  #68  
Old 25.09.2012, 11:51
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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that said, i'm not sure why people have a hang-up about making swiss friends. i'm happy to have friends and don't care what nationality they are...
Perhaps one reason is that as an Auslander one constantly hears criticism of the 'expat bubble' and of the expectation to integrate into Swiss society, whatever that means. Many who have experience of integrating into other cultures have done so by establishing friendships as a first step - and make the assumption that doing the same here is the not only the right, but also the expected, thing to do.

It's only after one is fully integrated into Swiss society - as in, as developed a good understanding of the culture and language - that one realizes that friendships are not easily formed.
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  #69  
Old 25.09.2012, 12:03
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

I can "survive", I am 42, I know where to go, what to do, I can organize a lot of things, I can meet other people, that is not the issue.
I feel sorry for my daughter, I feel I steal her childhood if I keep her here.
I grew up in the "grund" (yard, street, etc) among lots of children. With all the adventures you can imagine. And I take this from her.
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Old 25.09.2012, 14:51
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

For me (getting on to 60ish) is that nearly all my very good friends here (after 40 years) are(were) nearly all expats.
Means that at a time in your life when you could use some good friends, that over the last few years they have all gone back to homes in UK, Australia, Italy etc.
Which means Ill probabley turn into BOB that someone was talking about in an earlier post today ( I am feeling sorry for myself today arnt I)
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  #71  
Old 25.09.2012, 16:29
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

Swiss are alright. My closest aquintances/buds here are Swiss. One is a lawyer and two others in IT with no immigration background. Being a naturalized Yank and born Pole it is weird that I get along with them so well and we enjoy getting together and staying im touch. My upcoming buddy might be a ZKB banker who financed our new flat who lives in our small conservative village 300m away.

All this makes me actually wish to have some decent Poles and Yanks as friends here
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  #72  
Old 26.09.2012, 00:47
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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Perhaps one reason is that as an Auslander one constantly hears criticism of the 'expat bubble' and of the expectation to integrate into Swiss society, whatever that means. Many who have experience of integrating into other cultures have done so by establishing friendships as a first step - and make the assumption that doing the same here is the not only the right, but also the expected, thing to do.

It's only after one is fully integrated into Swiss society - as in, as developed a good understanding of the culture and language - that one realizes that friendships are not easily formed.
aah. well i interpret integration as helping the swiss people integrate into the rest of the world
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  #73  
Old 26.09.2012, 02:24
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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a verein to me is no solution. my ex swiss gf's parents were in a rowing club. both organised events like rowing the Ebro. never the people met outside of the club environment. never somebody came around to their house. they all shared rowing, but that was it.

when i came here after 3 months i was ready to go back to munich. i knew nobody round here and had nobody to speak to but my co-workers. then i found while googling the EF 5-a-side thread and the brit-lads i met this one sunday in april were all fresh from the boat and all had more or less the same deficit not knowing much people.

and a friendship developed out of that common interest and situation we were all in at the time. what i did was to bring some swiss lads down to footy. the BF of my ex GFs best uni friend. he said he likes to play so i asked him to come down. and guess what? he without any notice dropped out, never said a word about it. all other swiss people did the same.

dont get me wrong: we did not depend on their appearence but looking back it is backing up the theory that the swiss are hard to make friends with.

what somebody said about east european roots and not fitting in is spot on! my ex gf said in her class was a albanian girl. she and her family wanted to get a swiss passport after 20yrs they lived here. she for some reason had the germanic sounding name of her mother and she got the passport. rumor or truth has it that the rest if her family got rejected as their name ended with an IC... tomic or something...
A good Verein lives of "outside the club environment" thihgs. A Verein as you describe it is dull

What 5-a-side thing were you playing ? What sort of people were you attracting ?

Yes, people with "......ic" have it difficult here

Very often, the language paves the way. You at age 6 may be in a "Sprachheil-Kindergarten" and at age 8 are ok and later on throughout schooltime are best-in-class in German language for all of schooltime
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Old 26.09.2012, 06:37
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

Lots of great suggestions here. I wouldn't worry after only 6 months! But your location and your overall social skills are a huge factor.

To be honest, I've had the opposite experience. Being quite a loner (and fairly anti-social) in my home country, I was happy to have one or two very good friends. And I felt quite pushed to go out more and socialise when I arrived, which stressed me out!
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  #75  
Old 26.09.2012, 07:23
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

The OP started an interesting thread, I'll give him that, but doesn't seem to be really into making friends: he never came back to check on the suggestions
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  #76  
Old 27.09.2012, 11:57
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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What 5-a-side thing were you playing ? What sort of people were you attracting ?



footy! this thread was lying there for 2 month when i discovered it and said: allright, there is the pitch, i have a ball. lets meet this weeks sunday 12pm. we were 8 lads at the start, when it peaked we had 30 people showing up and we had to make an EF event out of it, built two slots for each group and all that. we had girls coming down to play, the skill set was from totally inept to spanish ball flamenco. the casuality of the game was it that made it so popular. it was an easy athmosphere with the chance to have a pint and fries afterwards, if you wanted.

from my perspective i didnt understand why he stopped playing. i could feel that there was something he didnt like. he felt uncomfy. and i didnt understand why he never asked me if i want to come around to his students kickabout in the park like he "promised"?

before he came playing i was invited to his birthday at vollmond bar. today i think id never go because it was such a waste of time under these circumstances. i knew him and his GF through my GF, we had the usual couples-dvd-pizza-wine-eves together, had met many times by then and i had already helped his GF move house. and that was that she called me and 20mins i was there. just one of their friends dropped out and i did not long of a talk. i was there and gave a hand. so i wasnt unknown at the time. allright... i showed up at his bday at said bar, there were 20 people mid-end-twens sitting around. i sat down among some people, they were chatting away, looked up, nodded and kept on talking. 1h i was completely blanked! i had the choice to bum into the discussion, forcing to talk to them-> bummer! or just leave the place-> ftw.

i dunno. in germany, uk and spain...other countries/cities this wouldnt happen. there is somebody at least asking your name, how you know this bday-person, what you´re doing...friggin smalltalk! and not with an aura like he/she didnt shit for a week.

beginning of september i had an invitation to a vernissage held by a girl i met first here. i really like her art, but i couldnt be arsed going as i imagine the scene precisely: aperöli-buffet (zweifel pommes chips-> yuk!), cüpli... groups of people (she has to take care of them-> potential buyers) short "hello" and then i would have wandered around, checked her 10 paintings and after that instantly looked for the getaway car as the stiffness among the people would be unbareable.
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  #77  
Old 27.09.2012, 12:08
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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Why don't you just speak to him and ask him why he acted that way? Most of the time you don't have the full picture...

because it happened another time before, that we met at letten and it was so stiff! i thought he is going to break into two pieces. and if id do that with everybody swiss i meet and behaves this way... its a never-ending task.

its a ) personal b) in their genes. i think its a mix of both, but 70% genes.
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Old 27.09.2012, 14:29
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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because it happened another time before, that we met at letten and it was so stiff! i thought he is going to break into two pieces. and if id do that with everybody swiss i meet and behaves this way... its a never-ending task.
...
How do you know your sample is casual and simple and big enough to be representative of all Swiss?


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...
... its a ) personal b) in their genes. i think its a mix of both, but 70% genes.
As you said before the guy was of Asian origin, all Asians are twits?


Seriously: I always have been thinking how odd it is that people who have experienced or do still (at least partly) experience clichés and easy judgements from other groups (like in the case Eastern Europeans and Eastern Germans still sometimes considered being stinky poor Stasi Jammer-Ossis coming from Dunkel-/Nichdeutschland, Neupolen, Zone, ...) adopt the same identical logic in judging others.

If I were you, I would ask myself if I'm really interested in friendship, or if I wouldn't rather try to get all my clichés confirmed, trying to psychologically exit social exclusion from my former (or worse: my actual) life.

But what probably is the main cause: People don't find you interesting or sympathic enough (or you are somehow embarrassing far too much, e.g. was your Asian-Swiss mate you met at the butcher's a vegetarian?) . Consider - if your thought you uttered before is serious - how close your idea is to Sarrazin and NS (you know, the genetic thing).
However, one can change that.


Cheers.
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Old 27.09.2012, 15:53
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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How do you know your sample is casual and simple and big enough to be representative of all Swiss?




As you said before the guy was of Asian origin, all Asians are twits?


Seriously: I always have been thinking how odd it is that people who have experienced or do still (at least partly) experience clichés and easy judgements from other groups (like in the case Eastern Europeans and Eastern Germans still sometimes considered being stinky poor Stasi Jammer-Ossis coming from Dunkel-/Nichdeutschland, Neupolen, Zone, ...) adopt the same identical logic in judging others.

If I were you, I would ask myself if I'm really interested in friendship, or if I wouldn't rather try to get all my clichés confirmed, trying to psychologically exit social exclusion from my former (or worse: my actual) life.

But what probably is the main cause: People don't find you interesting or sympathic enough (or you are somehow embarrassing far too much, e.g. was your Asian-Swiss mate you met at the butcher's a vegetarian?) . Consider - if your thought you uttered before is serious - how close your idea is to Sarrazin and NS (you know, the genetic thing).
However, one can change that.


Cheers.

you see? youre noob to this forum. do the effort and check my posts.

i had the chance to be in switzerland on weekends and my holidays for 1.5 years before i actually came here. so i had the chance to know about all these critical points about the swiss way before i actually settled here. i lived in a family in central switzerland, i have been together with three generations of swiss in one house, i have been to family parties, aperos, concerts, theatre, ski holidays... different occasions. my ex gf´s sister plays harp at KKL orchestra, so we traveled to her gigs all over the place and i have seen and spoken to city and village people, priests, people with different background, education etc. i have been to posh homes, clubs, farmers places, beiz´s, different family friends... i was taking part in the graffiti/hip-hop scene of zurich, i have been with artists, painters, photographers, fashion people, bands and musicians... i have been to squat parties, i have been in 6 years together with different swiss, different places and occasions. i have worked in 3 different swiss companies. so believe me: i have experienced switzerland, the people and i can judge! and just yesterday i had a talk about my first year here and i have to say: i was and still am somewhat devote towards the swiss. and we both, you and i, had this in one pm as well and we had a conclusion or found out where many problems rooting from and how to tackle them. thats why i can say i tried on a very sensible level to get to know people. i took myself back, very much! though i am not the one boasting around much, still i turned into a more timid person bearing in mind: no offense!

you can read this in this thread here and i can back this up as this was the intro i got from my ex swiss gf how hard it is to make friends here. she moved after primary school to another school next to her village. just 12km distance. she came as the nooby into a class that has been together since kindergarten. and whatever she did, parties, hosting a video night, ach...was auch immer... she never made it into this circle. and they were kids! 10 yrs old, or something. 8 years they went together to school and never somebody phoned her up, asking her out. it happend all among them. she had always to do the effort. kids came, ate the food, drank the drinks.. very rarely she got an invitation back and i can imagine how friggin hard it is to have no friends!

now, today i can say i am not looking for friends like in the beginning, when i really did and was fed up that i didnt get a coup. i have german friends, english, american, from india, turkish... gay, straight, lesbians... christians, muslim, jews... and theyre all expats and everybody says the same: i have very little to no swiss mates and what ever i did i had no success because i felt i pester them.

what i want to say is: when youre among people that have the same interests as you, there should be not much of a barrier of talking in fear it gets too private? and from there you start off as acquaintances and this maybe leads to friendhip. and that did not happen to me. apart from one swiss and his GF, but both lived in berlin for some time...

the video-mate just finished his meal and that was made of meat. if i am lacking sympathie or being of interest: ok! but i wonder why this is with the swiss only? that is my point!
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Old 27.09.2012, 17:26
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Re: 6 months... still no Swiss friends.

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...
... if i am lacking sympathie or being of interest: ok! but i wonder why this is with the swiss only? that is my point!
OK, and my answer is: Why do you even care for a nationality/passport of your friends? Why did you point out in the first place that the guy you made the Denner video with has Asian roots and then you talk about Swiss genetic patterns?

Why do you think that your (even if you know many persons still small and tiny) world and the 0.001% of the Swiss population you know (and on the first page of this 3d the guy from Geneva had a point by saying that there are very few "real Swiss", apart that if you go far enough, before 1848 or 1803 there was no real Switzerland either, besides Fricktal and parts of the Geneva hinterland not being Swiss at all) could stand for all Switzerland? It might very much depend upon your habitat, job, family, quarter, and language (and you are advantaged, most of the users here are not).

Not so much upon interests and hobbies (you have a very antique kind of a concept of friendship i.e. a common will for the same thing, which is not a modern way of being friends at all). Hobbies and interests are just a pretest, a fake, a made-up theroetical reality, like small-talk, in which you test the other one's interest not in the situation or hobby but in the person, not in race, origin, family or field.
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