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Old 30.09.2012, 22:42
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Thank you for all your responses.

After thinking about it, I think it was perhaps more of a language barrier??My German is still pretty bad. What I found was that many men were soooo attracted to the Spanish speaking women. But perhaps I also gave off that vibe of " Im not comfortable" here.

I dont really drink and dont smoke. I was offered red wine but it was so strong and I told the guy next to me its too strong for me to drink. Could that have been interpreted am me rejecting their wine?In some cultures, its frowned about to reject what you are offered.

I guess it was more of a case of me reading too much into it.
To reject the wine offered gave the impression as if you disliked the wine in question and regarded it as inferior to the "class" you were used to.

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Ive noticed that whenever I tell people im from South Africa, i get the big " OH"...haha....but on the up side, i get compliments about my English and accent!!!I was told I sound British but with a softer tone.

Well, many people know a lot about South Africa but few know enough to start a discussion about the country. I usually if hearing that somebody is from South Africa also cannot add anything intelligent. In case of Mocambique I at least can mention that a schoolfriend of my granddad was Swiss honorary consul in Lourenço Marques and later honorary consol for Mocambique in Schaffhausen. It usually paves the way to some chatting about Euro-Afro relations etc

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Old 30.09.2012, 23:40
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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People in Swiss are cool except when im in a shop and I tell the lady I can only speak hoch German and she still insists on speaking Swiss German. I actually laugh and tell her never mind...
Most likely, what people speak to you is what they believe is Hochdeutsch. Most Swiss just can't speak accent-free Hochdeutsch (I'm avoiding the word 'proper' here.)

While a lot of valid points have been said about your party experience, there might be one politically incorrect, sexistic, but from the others' viepoint only rational issue: it's a flirty party (you know, hot latinas...), some people might be looking for someone for the night. A black woman from South Africa means a high chance of HIV. Not the first choice for flirting.
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Old 01.10.2012, 00:08
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Most likely, what people speak to you is what they believe is Hochdeutsch. Most Swiss just can't speak accent-free Hochdeutsch (I'm avoiding the word 'proper' here.)

While a lot of valid points have been said about your party experience, there might be one politically incorrect, sexistic, but from the others' viepoint only rational issue: it's a flirty party (you know, hot latinas...), some people might be looking for someone for the night. A black woman from South Africa means a high chance of HIV. Not the first choice for flirting.
Most Germans just cannot speak accent free Hochdeutsch No joke ! Most speak a kind of Dialekt. Or at least a considerable accent. But even in France, the differences DO matter. If you sit at a table in Hyères and the host is a lady from the Bordelais, her husband if from the Neuchâtelois/Vaudois, the old lady who is her best friend speaks immaculate Français Parisien, another guest speaks Marseillais, and two ladies from the Alsace cannot hide their Accent Alémanique. The trouble for foreigners in Bern of course is that Bärn-Tüütsch is still a very strong dialect (rather a set of five Bernese dialects), which is not yet as diluted and mixed as what is Züritüütsch nowadays.
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Old 01.10.2012, 01:16
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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...
A black woman from South Africa means a high chance of HIV. Not the first choice for flirting.
What exactly are you doing when first flirting?

P.S. Just in case, you know what a condom is?


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To reject the wine offered gave the impression as if you disliked the wine in question and regarded it as inferior to the "class" you were used to.
...
I think it's rather that the guys understood they couldn't use the liquor as an easy weapon for charming the girl.


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Most Germans just cannot speak accent free Hochdeutsch No joke ! Most speak a kind of Dialekt. Or at least a considerable accent. But even in France, the differences DO matter. If you sit at a table in Hyères and the host is a lady from the Bordelais, her husband if from the Neuchâtelois/Vaudois, the old lady who is her best friend speaks immaculate Français Parisien, another guest speaks Marseillais, and two ladies from the Alsace cannot hide their Accent Alémanique. The trouble for foreigners in Bern of course is that Bärn-Tüütsch is still a very strong dialect (rather a set of five Bernese dialects), which is not yet as diluted and mixed as what is Züritüütsch nowadays.
This is Northern Swiss Cognitive Dissonance. There are not many regions in Europe where a remarkably big portion of the population is unwilling or unable to speak the standard variety at least in some circumstances of diglossia, with all its positive and negative aspects.
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Old 01.10.2012, 08:19
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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While a lot of valid points have been said about your party experience, there might be one politically incorrect, sexistic, but from the others' viepoint only rational issue: it's a flirty party (you know, hot latinas...), some people might be looking for someone for the night. A black woman from South Africa means a high chance of HIV. Not the first choice for flirting.
That's a bit of a leap from her just moaning that nobody wants to shoot the breeze with her or serve her a decent glass of red...

To be fair, though, the OP has stated in other threads that she is of mixed race, where she has been having problems in other social situations. In this thread she has described herself as a "black woman". My feeling is that she needs to get comfortable in her own skin and stop shifting the blame onto other people.
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Old 01.10.2012, 08:26
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Most likely, what people speak to you is what they believe is Hochdeutsch. Most Swiss just can't speak accent-free Hochdeutsch (I'm avoiding the word 'proper' here.)

While a lot of valid points have been said about your party experience, there might be one politically incorrect, sexistic, but from the others' viepoint only rational issue: it's a flirty party (you know, hot latinas...), some people might be looking for someone for the night. A black woman from South Africa means a high chance of HIV. Not the first choice for flirting.

Two strong accusations/allegations in one. To conclude it to have been a meeting to recruit whores is harsh, and to generalize the HIV/AIDS matter also goes a bit too far
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Old 01.10.2012, 08:34
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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What exactly are you doing when first flirting?

P.S. Just in case, you know what a condom is?



I think it's rather that the guys understood they couldn't use the liquor as an easy weapon for charming the girl.




This is Northern Swiss Cognitive Dissonance. There are not many regions in Europe where a remarkably big portion of the population is unwilling or unable to speak the standard variety at least in some circumstances of diglossia, with all its positive and negative aspects.
Most Swiss German speakers, which means more than 97%, are able to speak High German as this was their school language, quite many however (20 to 40%) are unwilling to do so, unless feeling forced to do so.

But in quite many cases the sound remains "Helvetic". But when the famous Bayern politician Franz Josef Strauss spoke High German it still sounded Bavarian. The only politician with a serious problem about High German is SVP man Bortoluzzi who in schooltime was immigrant from Italy and a bit challenged by German. The real trouble for foreigners is that Swiss-Germans at parties and other meetings tend to switch back to dialect without even noticing it.

And what she was offered was NOT liqueur/liquor but WINE. And wine is not a liqueur. You have to divide
- beer and cider
- wine
- liqueur
- spirits
the four categories are separated by law, customs regulations and medical sciences

And to be just to the O.P., while wines from the Bielersee, the Neuchâtelois, the Vaudois or most of all the Valais are not heavier than South African wines, quite many of them due to a higher "acidicy" are more "aggressive" and so "stronger" in a way. The RSA wines I had at tastings tended to be relatively light, light for the personal feeling while in reality being quite heavy. The personal feeling is not the same as the actual realities. So that THIS point in a way is acceptable, but rather wrong in a social meeting. If an alcoholic drink you get is too strong for you, try to get a second glass with some non-alcoholic stuff beside it. If you for example keep Coca Cola in a wine glass for a while, the bubbles are gone and you can use it for the cheers without problems. And the Coca Cola still is good. Many people believe that champagne (Sekt , Prosecco, Spumante, etc) is "light" which is the personal feeling, while most Champagnes due to the high concentration of alcoholic sugar are quite heavy in reality.

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Old 01.10.2012, 10:37
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Re: First Party experience in CH

Last time I attended a private party in ZH, there was only one CH girl there. All others were from Denmark.People didn`t approach her at all, though she was attractive. It has nothing to do with race, it`s just social and beauty preferences or language barrier.

Don't blame it on your color, it leads nowhere....
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Old 01.10.2012, 10:51
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Re: First Party experience in CH

Were any of them staring at you?
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Old 01.10.2012, 10:58
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Re: First Party experience in CH

Yes, I have new friends now!
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Old 01.10.2012, 11:12
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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To conclude it to have been a meeting to recruit whores is harsh
no one did that.

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and to generalize the HIV/AIDS matter also goes a bit too far
It's just plain economics. Other things equal, you don't approach the one with an a priori 25% chance of being positive, no matter if condoms exist or not.
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Old 01.10.2012, 12:05
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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you don't approach the one with an a priori 25% chance of being positive
Never really thought about it but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_South_Africa

You really think the OP wasn't approached because she might have AIDS?
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Old 01.10.2012, 12:56
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Never really thought about it but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_South_Africa

You really think the OP wasn't approached because she might have AIDS?
I would think that this could be one reason among others that - probably subconsciously - leads people to choose to approach someone else.
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Old 01.10.2012, 14:46
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Hi All,

I just came back from a a party and Im feeling down.

I was the only " black" woman there. The rest were Latin women, Europeans etc and I felt quite lonely. Every woman there were approached by men to engage in conversation and I was left standing alone. Obviously, I engaged in small talk with people around me but I couldn't help feeling "rejected". Nobody took a real interest in me. So instead of trying to force a conversation from people, I just left. Back home, whenever i would go out, I would always be approached by a guy and flirt alot.

Its such a different experience to be in the minority...

Anyway, Just wanted to get this off my chest so that I can feel better about myself.

did you crash the party or were you invited?

seriously didn't the host talk to you (or introduce you to some people)

I remember my first party just having landed here and speaking absolutely no french. It was interesting but the host was great and after a few drinks I was speaking.... something
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Old 01.10.2012, 18:18
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Re: First Party experience in CH

This thread has seriously gone in another direction. Im not sure how the HIV issue came into play.

In SA, when people meet at a party, they dont normally ask themselves if the person has HIV. So for example, women are first concerned about whether the guy is alone at the party ( to avoid being confronted by a girlfriend should they decide to flirt) and whether he finds her attractive enough.

It is sad that there are some people who can view a black South African woman as having a high chance of HIV however, those are views of people and as such, one cannot spend a lifetime trying to change those views.

I am mixed and in SA, some people dont see me as black because I have a white father. But in Europe, I have always been viewed as black and that is why in my initial post, i had described myself as black. In Switzerland, to make life easier, I would tell a Swiss that I am black and just avoid the situation of having to explain why in SA, im called coloured. Race is a very complex issue in SA...With our current Black Economic Empowerment Laws, Chinese people are now considered " black" and so they receive the benefits afforded by these laws.

Nevertheless, I did post that in fact I was the cause of feeling that way and that I was missing home so I was already feeling down when i had arrived at the party and when I was unable to strike up a real conversation with someone, It made me feel even more crappy about myself and decided to go home.

If i recall, in one of my posts, I did mention that I was feeling much better the next day.

Lesson learnt from this thread: Do not post up a thread when you are feeling down or negative.

However, I do really appreciate your different views. Its a learning experience. Perhaps next time when i go to a party, it would be wise not to accept alcohol at all knowing that I am not a drinker and further, be more bold and just strike up a conversation instead of waiting for someone to talk to me.
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Old 01.10.2012, 18:42
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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It is sad that there are some people who can view a black South African woman as having a high chance of HIV however, those are views of people and as such, one cannot spend a lifetime trying to change those views.
This is not a "view", it's statistical reality.
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:25
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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This thread has seriously gone in another direction. Im not sure how the HIV issue came into play.

In SA, when people meet at a party, they dont normally ask themselves if the person has HIV. So for example, women are first concerned about whether the guy is alone at the party ( to avoid being confronted by a girlfriend should they decide to flirt) and whether he finds her attractive enough.

It is sad that there are some people who can view a black South African woman as having a high chance of HIV however, those are views of people and as such, one cannot spend a lifetime trying to change those views.

I am mixed and in SA, some people dont see me as black because I have a white father. But in Europe, I have always been viewed as black and that is why in my initial post, i had described myself as black. In Switzerland, to make life easier, I would tell a Swiss that I am black and just avoid the situation of having to explain why in SA, im called coloured. Race is a very complex issue in SA...With our current Black Economic Empowerment Laws, Chinese people are now considered " black" and so they receive the benefits afforded by these laws.

Nevertheless, I did post that in fact I was the cause of feeling that way and that I was missing home so I was already feeling down when i had arrived at the party and when I was unable to strike up a real conversation with someone, It made me feel even more crappy about myself and decided to go home.

If i recall, in one of my posts, I did mention that I was feeling much better the next day.

Lesson learnt from this thread: Do not post up a thread when you are feeling down or negative.

However, I do really appreciate your different views. Its a learning experience. Perhaps next time when i go to a party, it would be wise not to accept alcohol at all knowing that I am not a drinker and further, be more bold and just strike up a conversation instead of waiting for someone to talk to me.
Wow, so SA is still racist? They`re still "classifying" people by race/colour? I thought they`d gotten over all that ancient stuff, and moved on into an enlightened society? Interesting.

A tip for future parties. I have an aquaintance who drinks no alcohol, but accepts a first glass of wine, and then just keeps topping it up with water (for white wine) or coke/grape juice (for red wine) ...... then she proceeds to let her hair down and enjoy herself - everyone else gets drunk, she`s sober, no-one notices the difference. When one says "I don`t drink alcohol", it sort of dampens the spirit of the revellers, and sets you a bit apart. Just a suggestion
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:39
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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Wow, so SA is still racist? They`re still "classifying" people by race/colour? I thought they`d gotten over all that ancient stuff, and moved on into an enlightened society? Interesting.

A tip for future parties. I have an aquaintance who drinks no alcohol, but accepts a first glass of wine, and then just keeps topping it up with water (for white wine) or coke/grape juice (for red wine) ...... then she proceeds to let her hair down and enjoy herself - everyone else gets drunk, she`s sober, no-one notices the difference. When one says "I don`t drink alcohol", it sort of dampens the spirit of the revellers, and sets you a bit apart. Just a suggestion
The problem Apartheid created was millions and millions of unskilled labour. Black people were restricted. So now, with the black economic empowerment laws, SA is trying to redress the problem by making it mandatory to hire black people in private companies and in govt. If we didnt have these laws, most black people wouldnt have the jobs they have today. Most of the true wealth and skill is still in the hands of one race. In the past, black people only became either teachers or nurses or mine workers. Of course, we do have those exceptions.

There is now a debate that the BEE laws are like apartheid but in reverse.But frankly and honestly speaking??Many companies would not hire black people if they were not forced to do so.Its a sad reality...

The hardest fact is that it has only been 18 years since our independence...how can we fix centuries of racism and oppression in 20 years?not possible...Its a very very slow process. Someone once said Apartheid was designed in such way to affect generations to come. The way black people were forced to live in certain areas, the way they were educated and so on...

Thanks for tip!It will come in handy the next time i go out!
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:45
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Re: First Party experience in CH

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......be more bold and just strike up a conversation instead of waiting for someone to talk to me.
That's probably the best idea.

I go to many parties, many bars etc. etc. etc. and fairly close to no one ever talks to me. But I'm used to it after 3 odd decades, so I just muster up the courage to say hi to a random stranger. Sure almost every time they don't want to talk to me and politely move away, but I just have another drink and enjoy myself. Some people just don't have the physical appearance or first impression mannerisms to make strangers feel comfortable. From my experiences, Switzerland is the worst for it. I've never had such issues in other countries, but it is what it is.
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Old 01.10.2012, 19:50
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That's probably the best idea.

I go to many parties, many bars etc. etc. etc. and fairly close to no one ever talks to me. But I'm used to it after 3 odd decades, so I just muster up the courage to say hi to a random stranger. Sure almost every time they don't want to talk to me and politely move away, but I just have another drink and enjoy myself. Some people just don't have the physical appearance or first impression mannerisms to make strangers feel comfortable. From my experiences, Switzerland is the worst for it. I've never had such issues in other countries, but it is what it is.
You know, in SA, its somewhat the same, depending where you are and the crowd. So for instance, people under 30 year will never chat to a person who they consider "ugly" and of course, i would think its worldwide!I can promise you that as a foreigner in SA, if a woman thinks you are hot, she will most definitely chat to you!

But do you really think its worse in Swiss?

Worldwide, many people are superficial...very sad...
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