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Old 04.10.2012, 23:56
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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...and which contradicts (according to me) with the fact that Switzerland is a country of high living standards. For me it is just another ''typical'' below the average western european country.
Perhaps things will look up if you improve your housing situation and do some research into shops to determine where's affordable to buy what you like. You're just a week in, shouldn't be too hard for things to get better. It certainly sounds like you make enough money to live well.

Best of luck with it.
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  #102  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:04
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How can you possibly defend its so called competitiveness, when across most segments, there are only monopolis governing the market, heavily supported by politicians. In case you haven't realized, there are so many restrictions and regulations impeding economical growth, except for when protecting consumers. These are 3rd world country traits and as long as half of the world is allowed to deposit its crooked money in Swiss bank accounts, it can maintain its social benefits. Give it another 10 years and Switzerland will resemble a post soviet state right after the collapse of the union.
Well competitiveness is a relative thing, perhaps the other countries are worse

I'm sure things are not that bad...
  #103  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:13
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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...
My entire point was that with the salary (for which i dont complain) i make and from the so far experiences, i see a deterioration in the ''quality'' of the lifestyle as i define it...and which contradicts (according to me) with the fact that Switzerland is a country of high living standards. For me it is just another ''typical'' below the average western european country.
...
Imho you have some point.

Housing is a difficult item in Switzerland, and probably one of those fields where CH is put worse than the rest of Europe, the "PIGS" included.

Starting with the ugly old houses and horrible towns in the Swiss German part of CH, Southern Germany and Austria (tiny little half clay, half wooden barns with holes in it, btw which explains the Swiss' love towards New Bauhaus) till the overcrowded Mittelland and immigration pots like ZH, BS e.g.


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Many commented about the air-water quality, the mountains, r...yes it seems a beautiful country..but this planet has so many other beautiful places with clean water, air and mountains. This is not a point of admiration for me.
...
Actually Switzerland is no "Sonderfall", it is not nicer or cleaner than many other European or non-European countries.

You can find very dirty places in CH, even in small tiny little cute cantons. However, the situation is better than a couple of decades ago.


Consider one thing: You are mainly having a talk with (well or even over-paid) expats here, of whom not a few don't like Switzerland for the people, for culture or of real interest in the country, but because they consider it a safe base for their salary and/or career, like to be the "new rich" after thinking that they were no one in their old country maybe so this time they hit the jackpot.

You got some good answers here in this thread (and not so good ones, too),

just don't think Zurich could be typical for all Switzerland and that once you fit your experiences with all the stereotypes of chocolate, cheese, gold, mountains and cows you have seen it all. Just give it a time and don't listen to whom is telling you that CH is special for that crap.
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  #104  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:20
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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Besides the general expat-superiority-class élite crap.
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Consider one thing: You are mainly having a talk with (well or even over-paid) expats here, of whom not a few don't like Switzerland for the people, for culture or of real interest in the country, but because they consider it a safe base for their salary and/or career.
Oh, sweetheart.....did somebody get passed over for their dream job in favour of a Brit? Had their heart broken by a Yank? Jilted by an Italian? Share it all here....better out than in
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  #105  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:21
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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My point was that you shouldn't be surprised that the people on a Swiss forum are broadly positive about Switzerland. Find a Swiss emigrants website and people will be negative about it. You don't have a good control group here
I don't think that's entirely accurate. There are plenty of folks asking the same questions, feeling isolated and miserable, etc., it's just that it takes a thick skin to ask difficult questions in a forum where the regulars can be tough on those who don't stick to the party line or are being overly self-pitying. Most just don't try to incur such public beatings.

QoL is a moving goalpost and those surveys are very misleading. I regretted moving to Zurich almost the moment I stepped off the plane and no matter how much sunshine I tried to blow up my own arse, that never changed. I do miss the cheap French wines though.

The things folks always praise Switzerland for were either things I didn't care about or really didn't like, e.g. mountains as I'm more of a sea level kind of gal. I also noticed that a large number of those who stay in Switzerland (at least the ones I know) for the long term spend a good deal of time outside of Switzerland, either going home to visit or going on holiday.
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  #106  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:28
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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Oh, sweetheart.....did somebody get passed over for their dream job in favour of a Brit? Had their heart broken by a Yank? Jilted by an Italian?
...
... no, nothing like that. In the contrary.


However, what is a little bit sad is that so many newbies (at least here on the forum) complain about the Swiss and what they have done wrong, how dare those mountainers to offend the free spirit well educated expats with fees and franks, SVP, lil mean old lady from next door and the smoking criminal ahead,

and how much they love Swiss cheese, the scenery, clear water, freedom and who knows what else what one can consider, OP got that right, European standard (no idea where you come from that you didn't have this. Where was that? North Corea?).
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  #107  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:35
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I regretted moving to Zurich almost the moment I stepped off the plane and no matter how much sunshine I tried to blow up my own arse, that never changed.
I don't really think that is related to Switzerland (or insert x place) necessarily, especially if you hate it instantly. It's more related to you (or rather oneself) and where you are in life, where you came from, etc, etc.

I've certainly lived in places I didn't particularly like all that much and then I moved and never looked back. There are plenty of people who love living there and wouldn't think of moving no matter how much of a basket case the place is.

Other places I grew to love, some I loved instantly and others I'm still hoping I'll get to. At the end of the day it's just a personal thing. (Although, I'm sure I'd hate living in Zurich too. ) And I really really believe that life is too short to stay and be miserable. As long as you gave it your best effort, if you're still not happy, I say go forth and find your place in the world.
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  #108  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:39
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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However, what is a little bit sad is that so many newbies (at least here on the forum) complain about the Swiss and what they have done wrong, how dare those mountainers to offend the free spirit well educated expats with fees and franks, SVP, lil mean old lady from next door and the smoking criminal ahead,
I think one of the reasons this forum was created was to give "newbies" a place to vent, commiserate and hopefully even lean on each other a little.
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  #109  
Old 05.10.2012, 00:47
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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I think one of the reasons this forum was created was to give "newbies" a place to vent, commiserate and hopefully even lean on each other a little.
For sure I'm lacking in some expression skills so could be that I was misunderstood:

I do appreciate if a newbie like OP in this thread says flat out what he thinks is the problem / his problem / one of the problems of the place he's living or working in.

What on this forum - not in this thread - is always astonishing for me that normally expats (or new expats, i.e. expats for a few years, and it was them I meant in the other posting above) blame the Swiss or people in Switzerland for their problems, for misbehaving, cheating, charging too much, being narrow minded, smokers, bankers, peasants, ... OP did not.
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  #110  
Old 05.10.2012, 01:05
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I got the same response when I first started shopping, always..."the Swiss quality this, the Swiss quality that." Then I asked the question, well if the price is directly related to the quality, then why does a burger in a German McDonalds cost half as much as one here? Blank stare. !
Er, cause the beef is not your standard European / American dodgey beef, here it comes from a Swiss cow

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Bottom line is Switzerland is expensive because every other CHF is generated from tarrifs which is why their taxes are lower. But when you tarrif imported goods that much, the prices have to go up when you sell them. Of course there's the argument, "Well, we get paid more and our taxes are lower". While that may be true to a point, it doesn't explain why a liter of milk in Germany, with 19%VAT is only .50-Euro cents when the same liter here with 9%VAT is 2.00-CHF. Uh, yeah.
AGAIN, SWISSS milk, from a SWISS cow!


RESPECT THE:

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  #111  
Old 05.10.2012, 01:12
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I will goodnite you all, thank you for the nice and even for the not nice comments.
Yes.. you can live with 4.5k...if you do certain things i.e. plan ahead of time for travelling..buy this card or the other card, go to aldi..buy second hand things.
So far in my life and maybe i have been lucky, i never bought any card..never went to aldi's and never even thought to buy second hand furniture. I am not saying there is something bad about it. I RESPECT all choices people make for a better living.
My entire point was that with the salary (for which i dont complain) i make and from the so far experiences, i see a deterioration in the ''quality'' of the lifestyle as i define it...and which contradicts (according to me) with the fact that Switzerland is a country of high living standards. For me it is just another ''typical'' below the average western european country. But this is relative. I accept all other opinions because people have different experiences.

Many commented about the air-water quality, the mountains, r...yes it seems a beautiful country..but this planet has so many other beautiful places with clean water, air and mountains. This is not a point of admiration for me.
I just wanted to get opinions and ideas about what you think..this is a forum right? Once more thanks for all your replies and especially the positive ones.
You would have a completely different view of Switzerland if you had come here and was given a place along the gold coast with a fantastic view of the lake and the mountains, with a bit of extra bonus pay in your pocket. Seems like you got the "short-end of the stick." That's your fault and only you can fix it. There are many fighting to get into Switzerland because it is one of the only places in Europe with jobs! All fall around her but she still stands, affected but not beaten. You don't "have" to stay in Switzerland, bid her adieu and be done with it.
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  #112  
Old 05.10.2012, 01:26
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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You would have a completely different view of Switzerland if you had come here and was given a place along the gold coast with a fantastic view of the lake and the mountains, with a bit of extra bonus pay in your pocket.
...
I'm aware that your sentence might be pure irony,

but it is exactly the thing in your sentence that is quite a complete inconsideration of what Switzerland really is.

Remember Orson Well's quotation in his character in The Third Man regarding the cuckoo clock?
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  #113  
Old 05.10.2012, 01:46
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I'm aware that your sentence might be pure irony,

but it is exactly the thing in your sentence that is quite a complete inconsideration of what Switzerland really is.

Remember Orson Well's quotation in his character in The Third Man regarding the cuckoo clock?
You have no idea what I "really" meant. I rest my case...

Last edited by ProsperityJoy; 05.10.2012 at 01:57.
  #114  
Old 05.10.2012, 02:05
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Re: The supposed Swiss ''quality'' of life

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You have no idea what I "really" meant.
...
Apparently so.

However, the respect thing you cancelled in your posting was not bad.

I know what mountains are, and I do actually like them (and I have view on them and on the lake and that stuff),

but I often at least suspect that there is not much of respect in talking about clear water, cheese and chocolate when someone wants to emphasize a positive experience or an advantage in Switzerland.
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Old 05.10.2012, 02:33
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Apparently so.

However, the respect thing you cancelled in your posting was not bad.

I know what mountains are, and I do actually like them (and I have view on them and on the lake and that stuff),

but I often at least suspect that there is not much of respect in talking about clear water, cheese and chocolate when someone wants to emphasize a positive experience or an advantage in Switzerland.
I think one should be respectful to their host country. They don't have to like it though. It has nothing to do with wine, cheese, or experiences. We carry our experiences with us. The OP has issues he brought with him to Switzerland there's nothing any of us can do about that. I like your post though...
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Old 05.10.2012, 03:42
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I don't really think that is related to Switzerland (or insert x place) necessarily, especially if you hate it instantly. It's more related to you (or rather oneself) and where you are in life, where you came from, etc, etc.
This is true, but so often on these expat fora the person, who is unhappy and wondering where shangri-la is amid their misery, is beset with judgment that they are somehow unfit for paradise and too stupid to see the forest for the trees. I'm a veteran of moving about the globe, settling in rather quickly and avoiding many of the usual pitfalls that are de rigeur..and I've lived in far more unwelcoming places than Switzerland...but I was surprised at how immediate and unwavering my discontent in Zurich was. When you're unhappy and disconnected, these places can be a life raft for those who are having a rough time finding their way. I'm an old badger so I know the ropes, but for the new and disappointed, a little kindness and understanding can go a long way and is hard to find.

Personally, I identify with most of the OPs questions as I often wondered the same things....at 3x the income. It's not so much about the money, but money is quantifiable whereas wanting an ocean instead of a foggy lake isn't quite as much.

One thing that would be interesting to research is the top 10 things on a wide range of expat fora that expats find difficult and use that to chart an index, similar to the QoL that everyone uses but doesn't quite understand, that might have more meaning for those looking to move/immigrate somewhere.
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  #117  
Old 05.10.2012, 03:47
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AGAIN, SWISSS milk, from a SWISS cow!
So, do they poop gold? From what I've heard, their poop stinks just like every other cow, particularly on windy days downwind from a farm. If they poop ingots, it might explain why the farmers zip around those little back roads in candy-coloured sports cars that mere mortals dream of owning....
  #118  
Old 05.10.2012, 10:40
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Aahhh .... you have misunderstood the meaning of the word "quality of life" I think?

Quality of life means .... things like -

Sitting outdoors on your own piece of land on the 1st August with a glass of wine and watching the country celebrating with fireworks.

Sitting down in a restaurant to enjoy a good meal without worrying about a bunch of gunmen walking in and removing everyone`s wallets, cellphones, and jewellery, and perhaps spraying a few bullets around.

Driving in the city without stressing about being hi-jacked.

Posting a letter and knowing it will be delivered. The same or next day.

Buying something "made in Switzerland" and knowing it is good quality.

Losing your gloves (or whatever) and finding them at the lost property office, or hanging on a gatepost near where you dropped them.

And lots of other arbitrary stuff that adds "quality" to life, no matter how small/humble your home, your income level, etc.
While I agree CH has a lot to offer, I am afraid some of the things you listed only USED TO be true.
  #119  
Old 05.10.2012, 10:43
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So, do they poop gold? From what I've heard, their poop stinks just like every other cow, particularly on windy days downwind from a farm. If they poop ingots, it might explain why the farmers zip around those little back roads in candy-coloured sports cars that mere mortals dream of owning....
Wow, pooptart. Now I know where you got your name from.
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  #120  
Old 05.10.2012, 10:47
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While I agree CH has a lot to offer, I am afraid some of the things you listed only USED TO be true.
Such as?

Tom
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