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  #21  
Old 08.10.2012, 14:59
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Most people have, and, not to single you out, buuutttt... That's why it's just you going on....

hmmmm, pretty sure i replied to a quoted post, much like this one, but lets not let facts get in the way of anything eh

Yep, proper anti smoking thread this one, evades all common sense and reasoning
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  #22  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:16
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Sorry, I was under the impression that most people reading this would have been on the other threads that have been debated to death.

Just to provide clarity on your assumptions: it is "carried on the particles which..." CAN, CAN CAN CAN, cause CANcer, CAN if you were exposed to levels/dosages/amounts in an environment that do not exist in real life situations i.e. 100's of thoudands of smokers in an area so small they couldnt actually really fit, with no change of air/ventialtion (this happens with merely the crack of a window by the way), and for prolonged amount of time i.e. multiply the average life expectancy times 3 to be conservative, closer to 5 to be honest, with no respite i.e continuous exposure. Alas, it does not cause cancer.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/Tobacco/ETS
Interesting, this part:
Quote:
There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke.
If you can smell the cigarette, you have been exposed to the carcinogens. In a small amount, yes, but it still raises your risk of cancer.
To give a counter to your fantasy situation above, living with one smoker, in a normal house, with plenty of time spent apart from them and out of the house, increases a non-smoker's risk of developing lung cancer by 20-30%. That is only one type of cancer ...

I don't really mind people choosing to enjoy something that increases their own chance of death or disease, except where it risks others (such as drinking alcohol, as another example - drink as much as you like, just don't drive while intoxicated, or become violent).
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  #23  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:20
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Reading the title, I thought this thread might be about an experience involving someone eating something smelly on the train, but no, another
smoking thread.

How about this?




Maybe we'll get lucky next week
I'm in, I have three cans in the fridge!

(luckily, they haven't started leaking yet)

Tom
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  #24  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:27
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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living with one smoker, in a normal house, with plenty of time spent apart from them and out of the house, increases a non-smoker's risk of developing lung cancer by 20-30%.
A negligible amount, then.

Now, if it were 1000%, then you might have a valid argument, but a 20% increase in risk?

Tom
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  #25  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:33
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/Tobacco/ETS
Interesting, this part:


If you can smell the cigarette, you have been exposed to the carcinogens. In a small amount, yes, but it still raises your risk of cancer.
To give a counter to your fantasy situation above, living with one smoker, in a normal house, with plenty of time spent apart from them and out of the house, increases a non-smoker's risk of developing lung cancer by 20-30%. That is only one type of cancer ...

I don't really mind people choosing to enjoy something that increases their own chance of death or disease, except where it risks others (such as drinking alcohol, as another example - drink as much as you like, just don't drive while intoxicated, or become violent).
Fine if you believe this.

One problem, statistical manipulation.

You do not understand what you are reading and thus I can not help alleviate your unnecessary paranoia.

Good luck surviving, I am going for cigarette.

Its not that you are necessarily stupid, just misguided. You are exactly the target audience for this kind of manipulation of statistics and mission is successful as you genuinely believe smokers are killing you. Job done. This was supposed to help people quit smoking. Instead, it has made people like you self righteous and simply wrong.

Last edited by JBZ86; 08.10.2012 at 15:46.
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  #26  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:39
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/Tobacco/ETS
Interesting, this part:


If you can smell the cigarette, you have been exposed to the carcinogens. In a small amount, yes, but it still raises your risk of cancer.
To give a counter to your fantasy situation above, living with one smoker, in a normal house, with plenty of time spent apart from them and out of the house, increases a non-smoker's risk of developing lung cancer by 20-30%. That is only one type of cancer ...

I don't really mind people choosing to enjoy something that increases their own chance of death or disease, except where it risks others (such as drinking alcohol, as another example - drink as much as you like, just don't drive while intoxicated, or become violent).
As does smelling car fumes, smelling a curry-eating beer drinker's farts, or eating apples. All expose you to noxious substances which, in a high enough dose, will kill you.
Actually, my farts would kill you in exceedingly small doses .
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  #27  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:41
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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I'm in, I have three cans in the fridge!

(luckily, they haven't started leaking yet)

Tom

Well then, when's the next train all the way around Switzerland? Got the ticket yet?

(btw: do you open the cans in the house or outside?)
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  #28  
Old 08.10.2012, 15:51
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Well then, when's the next train all the way around Switzerland? Got the ticket yet?

(btw: do you open the cans in the house or outside?)
Outside, at a friend's who lives in the mountains, and even then far from the house!

I should be brave enough to try it again, think the last one was ten years ago.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 08.10.2012, 23:57
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

i declare EF smoking threads my sleeping pill.
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  #30  
Old 09.10.2012, 11:43
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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As does smelling car fumes, smelling a curry-eating beer drinker's farts, or eating apples. All expose you to noxious substances which, in a high enough dose, will kill you.
Actually, my farts would kill you in exceedingly small doses .
I don't like car fumes, either - but nobody rolls their car over beside me and starts it up with the exhaust pipe aimed directly at my face.

As for your farts, I doubt they'd seriously injure me - I've survived some that have had people running for the door ... and not making it.

Last edited by araqyl; 09.10.2012 at 14:00.
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  #31  
Old 09.10.2012, 22:30
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Swiss trains have to be one of the most timely and efficient trains around. However the journey leading to and exiting from any train trips are made negative by the serious need for cigarettes for a large portion of train commuters. Waiting on any platforms involves passively inhaling several cigarettes whilst as soon as I exit any train, the person infront of me would light up straight away with smoke blowing back to me.

Environmentally friendly country, full of rules, yet ancient in any non smoking laws.

Despite the recent failed referendum, I hope that this will change soon for the better
Bad, but the nice thing is that smoke-free zones in railways will gradually increase. In case of Zürich HB, the Bahnhof Landesmuseum (underground area of most S-Railways) and the station for S4 Sihltalbahn and S-10 Uetlibergbahn already ARE smoke-free and the new Bahnhof Löwenstrasse/Bahnhofplatz with the through-S-Railways will be smoke-free as underground. The SBB will declare this zone and that one as "Indoors" as the SBB IS the owner of the stations.

Add to this that certain Cantons will move ahead in this matter step by step. BUT there for the foreseeable future will not be much on union-level
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  #32  
Old 10.10.2012, 01:26
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...et/Tobacco/ETS
Interesting, this part:


If you can smell the cigarette, you have been exposed to the carcinogens. In a small amount, yes, but it still raises your risk of cancer.
You should not forget that for evolutionary reasons smoke is the smell our noses are most sensible to. Thus even tiniest amount of smoke are very noticeable. The concentration of smoke you encounter is actually pretty low, as there is lots of air to mix with the smoke. Probably the concentration is some dozen times smaller than in a bar where many guest smoke, or in a heavy smoker's home (who smokes inside). In these environments it is proven that second hand smoke is harmful and it is what your 20% figure relates to.

Outside (or even in the hall of Zurich main station) you probably have to stick your face right before the smokers face in order to get high enough concentration to do you harm (you of course have to do this regularly to get an effect ) . If the smoker is standing something like a meter away from you, the smoke will already be diluted by the air to a great extend.
Because human beings are very sensitive to the smell of smoke will still be very noticeable, but it is more of nuisance than a health hazard.
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  #33  
Old 10.10.2012, 02:58
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Outside, at a friend's who lives in the mountains, and even then far from the house!

I should be brave enough to try it again, think the last one was ten years ago.
I thought Sweden had weaponized surströmming by now. It's Baltic Herring festival time now as well which is always a good time. I never could stand the stuff though fresh herring is a treat. Läskisoosi is the Finnish equivalent as it's a grey sort of gruel that my colleagues howled with laughter as my face turned green the moment the spoon hit my mouth. I'm sure if it were tinned, it'd be even more gross after about 10 years. Talk about health risks....
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  #34  
Old 10.10.2012, 03:10
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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I don't like car fumes, either - but nobody rolls their car over beside me and starts it up with the exhaust pipe aimed directly at my face.

As for your farts, I doubt they'd seriously injure me - I've survived some that have had people running for the door ... and not making it.
True, but I think you're missing the broader point in that there are countless environmental hazards that are even more deadly than getting a whiff of cigarette smoke. It's the chemicals you can't see or smell or taste (at least because they're so pervasive that you grow accustomed to them) that should be more worrisome but smoking is easier to identify and is popularly demonized. Contrast that with major industrial accidents along the Danube, e.g. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...e-river-water/ , and along the Rhine which leech into the ground water and the food supply. And don't forget the carcinogens on grilled meats (the black bits). Granted, beating a dead horse is easier than looking at, say, household detergents and other cleaning chemicals which are everywhere and impossible to escape in an urban environment. Relax, you're going to die sometime and if you do die of cancer, it's unlikely you'll have an upwind smoker to thank for it.
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  #35  
Old 10.10.2012, 08:23
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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And don't forget the carcinogens on grilled meats (the black bits).
When did Carbon become a carcinogen? As a restaurant manager for a decade, that's all that was in the "black bits.". Carbon, in the form of graphite. You could even use it to make pencils. Totally harmless, necessary for life Carbon.
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  #36  
Old 10.10.2012, 10:28
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

Here are some tips for avoiding all the smokers:
  • If there one of those non-smoking glass rooms, always wait inside there. It is quieter too.
  • If possible, try and catch a train that is underground, eg at Zurich. No smoking is allowed on the underground platforms.
  • If outside, estimate the wind direction so you know where to position yourself around the smokers.
  • Avoid standing in the middle of a platform, usually right at the back or at the front is better.
  • Wear a face mask like they do in China. However, expect to get a lot more stares from the swiss than usual.

The worst is when its raining and you're waiting for a bus under the shelter with a few smokers. Your choices are either to put up with their smoke or to stand in the rain. Normally I choose to stand in the rain.

I have also noticed that some smokers actually try and follow me around when I move away from them! Its almost as if they want you to smoke just because they are. I guess its similar to the drinking culture in Australia, where you constantly get asked by other drinkers "why aren't you drinking?" and "Let me buy you a drink" etc.
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Old 11.10.2012, 09:34
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

Geez, it really is like being the new kid in school and being beaten into a pulp by school bullies (senior users) here

At least I know where I stand here.
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  #38  
Old 11.10.2012, 09:52
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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Geez, it really is like being the new kid in school and being beaten into a pulp by school bullies (senior users) here

At least I know where I stand here.
It's not personal. You just happened to start the last smoking thread in a week full of smoking threads. Bad luck, I guess.
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  #39  
Old 11.10.2012, 11:25
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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(btw: do you open the cans in the house or outside?)
Well, we've decided to open some at the afternoon coffee break today, the visiting Swedes are looking forward to it with varying degrees of happiness/sickness!

Tom
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Old 11.10.2012, 19:30
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Re: Efficient but smelly train experience

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How about this?
Ironically, that's the exact brand we opened today (Röda Ulven).

I have two others, but the expert (visiting Swede from up north) said that that was the best (the other I brought to work was Kallax, and the one I left at home is Oskars)!

Tom
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