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  #41  
Old 09.10.2012, 11:44
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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...and it sort of digressed into them rather pointedly saying it is a medieval dialect.
which is actually true for a number of local Swiss dialects:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz...n_Monophthonge
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  #42  
Old 09.10.2012, 11:45
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

I lived and worked in germany for 12 years, I like both the country and the people. I was never given any hassle or insults. Yet here I have been insulted, mobbed at work, and generally told to go away.

I have 5 German friends here, and I do feel sorry for them. They are well behaved, cultured and interesting, but are not welcome. I have met several Swiss people whom speak ill of the German race. They have introduced the subject, it might have been about eating, or driving or something and then they say "But the Germans here are always.. blah blah blah" which is usually different with my experiences.

I really think Swiss citizens have a big inferiority complex. It is a small nation and so they are not big at anything except looking after black money. Sure there are big things here, but when you check out world figures, they are not usually the top. I cannot see any other reason for this hostile anti German attitude, other than there has been heavy immigration from Germany over the past 10 years, the immigrants being well qualified and with good experience. This has probably been upsetting as somebody who is passed over for promotion by a foreign immigrant is not going to like the new boss at all.

.
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  #43  
Old 09.10.2012, 13:18
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Same with motorcycle meetings, though I have noticed that the Voralbergers are more likely to hang out with Swiss rather than Germans.

Tom
Completely correct observation, but maybe you don't know the why: Vorarlberg is the only region in Austria that speaks a dialect that is much closer to Swiss German than to other Austrian dialects. They have been traditionally much closer to the Swiss than to the Tyrolians... In the past was there simply a very hard to cross Arlberg between them and the rest of Austria.
They are considered some sort of half-Swiss by the rest of Austria who mock them as "Gsi-Berger" (Because they use the Swiss German past tense form of "bin gsi" instead of "ich war").
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  #44  
Old 09.10.2012, 13:26
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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he...then approached her and tried to flirt with her in english, but very condescending. She responded in german, and was met with a "This is Switzerland, either talk to me in Swiss or in english, or not at all".
Oh, please tell me she responded in German with something like "Well, I guess you won't be getting laid tonight afterall then"
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  #45  
Old 09.10.2012, 13:38
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Completely correct observation, but maybe you don't know the why: Vorarlberg is the only region in Austria that speaks a dialect that is much closer to Swiss German than to other Austrian dialects. They have been traditionally much closer to the Swiss than to the Tyrolians... In the past was there simply a very hard to cross Arlberg between them and the rest of Austria.
They are considered some sort of half-Swiss by the rest of Austria who mock them as "Gsi-Berger" (Because they use the Swiss German past tense form of "bin gsi" instead of "ich war").
Vorarlberg is also known as "Kanton Übriggeblieben" the leftover Canton
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  #46  
Old 09.10.2012, 13:59
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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When you say Switzerland has not been attacked in the last 500 years, do you mean by Germans, or in general? Cause if it is general, you are wrong.
...
OK among those Milan and Spanish troups in the Graubünden wars there should have been some German, too,

as for sure it's the case regarding Napoleonic armies in CH, or long before, regarding Imperial troups during the process of autonomy from HRE, Schwabenkrieg or whatever.


I doubt however that Germany was a perceived enemy at that time (mostly as Germany didn't exist as a state at none of those times).



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...
It's funny that you think Germans can easily master Swiss,
...
I didn't say they do master, but that they can easily understand Schwyzertütsch. What they make out of it, in another thing.

But - in the contrary to other immigrants - they do have an immediate access to verbal and written communication.


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...
And even still if the Swiss language, which as you know is different in every canton, often from valley to valley, village to village, ...
...
This is Swiss self-perception, linguistically not true (reference e.g. Ulrich Ammon).


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...
... I work with some that have been here for decades, and they are still speaking in high German, in Swiss kitchens, and roll their eyes almost everytime they here dialect. It's not to say they don't know any, or don't get along with the Swiss, but if it was so easy of a language to get a handle on, I think they would be speaking it more.
...
It's a question of will. They don't want to (or fear to make errors and to be stigmatized), and it's a choice.

Furthermore there is no such thing as
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...particularily North-German dialects and accents ...
...
any more, as northern or middle German dialects are dead for many many decades now (and also in the south those are rare), being dialects associated with extremely low social status (which is kind of similar to the situation in Romandie and partially also in Ticino, but completely different from the Swiss German part of CH).
So a reluctance towards a use of dialects or even accents could be explained by social background.
Which however does not have any impact on understanding.


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...
P.S> Did you know that the graphic designer making all those SVP posters is a German immigrant?
...
I thought it was a PR company from Osnabrück?


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...
I have 5 German friends here, and I do feel sorry for them. They are well behaved, cultured and interesting, but are not welcome. I have met several Swiss people whom speak ill of the German race. They have introduced the subject, it might have been about eating, or driving or something and then they say "But the Germans here are always.. blah blah blah" which is usually different with my experiences.

I really think Swiss citizens have a big inferiority complex. It is a small nation and so they are not big at anything except looking after black money. Sure there are big things here, but when you check out world figures, they are not usually the top.
...
I think this is exaggerated by far (and wrong, at least regarding that black accounts impact on the economy). Probably I'm not doing justice to every "victim" of those "attacks", however, please consider that self pity, complaining about everything is a shared value among especially Germans and Anglo-saxons. So victimizing oneself and/or generalizing single events is very en vogue in Germany nowadays (Sarrazin, Buschkowsky, Merkel, Germany as Goldesel, Dolchstosslegende die x-te, bad "PIGS", pöhse Schwiizer ...).
And of course - yes, a parallelism between Anglo-saxon expat "elite" and German new rich showing-off - there is a minority among Germans in Switzerland who really behave badly (at least in the eyes of a Swiss - mocking the dialect, feeling superior, bringing the own stuff and staff, purchases only in Germany, knowing nothing about Switzerland or worse giving a damn about it). And it's a powerful minority, as you said, with good education background, financial ressources and political influence.


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...
I cannot see any other reason for this hostile anti German attitude, other than there has been heavy immigration from Germany over the past 10 years,
...
Immigration was the same thing a 100 years ago, and also before (silk and wool industry in SG and ZH). Not a new thing at all.

Last edited by Bucentaure; 09.10.2012 at 14:13.
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  #47  
Old 09.10.2012, 14:01
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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hey no. I just started to learn it....





It's actually well known that (some) Swissgermans have a problem with Germans, even in Geneva we know it.

On the other side (of the country) we, in Geneva, have a problem with the French....
Actually the whole world has a problem with the French However the French just do not care, so it's not a problem for them
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  #48  
Old 09.10.2012, 14:47
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Actually the whole world has a problem with the French However the French just do not care, so it's not a problem for them
Swiss Germans dont really have a problem with the French i think
imo its the Britains, Americans and Australians mostly
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  #49  
Old 09.10.2012, 14:48
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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I thought it was a PR company from Osnabrück?
No, Dübendorf:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/29821806
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  #50  
Old 09.10.2012, 15:03
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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OK among those Milan and Spanish troups in the Graubünden wars there should have been some German, too,
If you want to be pedantic, Germany didn't exist at the time. As a looser concept, the Holy Roman Empire included a lot of territory that never became part of Germany (including much of Switzerland and even chunks of Northern Italy). So saying that Germany or Germans attacked or invaded Switzerland at that time is pretty much meaningless as a statement. It's a bit like saying that the UK invaded the Kingdom of Mercia.
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  #51  
Old 09.10.2012, 15:08
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Furthermore there is no such thing as
any more, as northern or middle German dialects are dead for many many decades now (and also in the south those are rare), being dialects associated with extremely low social status (which is kind of similar to the situation in Romandie and partially also in Ticino, but completely different from the Swiss German part of CH).
Question? Have you ever actually been to Germany, or do you just watch TV? I hear numerous different dialects everywhere and all the time when I'm there. They are about as distinct as the different dialects of the UK (if not more so), and very much as living too.

A friend of mine complains she can't make friends in her village because she's the only one who speaks Hochdeutsch there. And this village is not in the middle of the sticks but just outside Tübingen.
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  #52  
Old 09.10.2012, 15:12
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Actually the whole world has a problem with the French However the French just do not care, so it's not a problem for them
Even inside France a lot of people hate the French as much as the rest of the world hates the French, only they call them Parisians there.
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  #53  
Old 09.10.2012, 15:28
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Not difficult to find and relatively well known. It is named after a well known German footballer and it's located in a side street off Langstrasse. You may well have been there.
Likely. But can we agree that "Chreis 4" is not exactly an average benchmark of Swiss culture.. ?
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:36
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Question? Have you ever actually been to Germany, or do you just watch TV? I hear numerous different dialects everywhere and all the time when I'm there. They are about as distinct as the different dialects of the UK (if not more so), and very much as living too.
Low German is dead and has been replaced by standard german with maybe some local flavor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German

High German and its dialects survived:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_german

Standard German was derived from High German and is hence frequently called Hochdeutsch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_German

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A friend of mine complains she can't make friends in her village because she's the only one who speaks Hochdeutsch there. And this village is not in the middle of the sticks but just outside Tübingen.

Anything just outside Tübingen IS in the middle of the sticks.
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:39
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

In addition i think neighbour rivalries are pretty normal
dutch-german
swiss-german
poland-german
british-ireland
australia-new zealand
india-pakistan
u.s.-canada
italy-spain etc...
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:43
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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In addition i think neighbour rivalries are pretty normal
dutch-german
swiss-german
poland-german
british-ireland
australia-new zealand
india-pakistan
u.s.-canada
italy-spain etc...
Please, use a map before posting
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  #57  
Old 09.10.2012, 15:43
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Likely. But can we agree that "Chreis 4" is not exactly an average benchmark of Swiss culture.. ?
It depends what you call a "benchmark". Judging by the number of bars and pubs there (which is increasing all the time) and the number of people on the streets on a Friday night, people must be coming them from far and wide. So insignifcant is something different.

If you choose instead to take your beer in the Frohsinn of conservative farming village, that is also a choice. But then you get what you choose.
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:46
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Please, use a map before posting
Why is it that you take obection to Italy and Spain being neighbours, but don't object to the same thing being said of New Zealand and Australia. Maybe you are the one needing a map?
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:46
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Please, use a map before posting
it was only a test, well done FrankS
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Old 09.10.2012, 15:49
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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Why is it that you take obection to Italy and Spain being neighbours, but don't object to the same thing being said of New Zealand and Australia. Maybe you are the one needing a map?

However there are still alot of rivalries going on between
Italy-Spain and Australia-New Zealand
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