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  #141  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:19
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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When i was a kid and we went to Spain for vacation

My Moms would always try to speak Spanish to the Spanish ppl Waiters etc..
but most Germans there would talk German to the Waiters, and then when the Spanish waiters didnt understand they would act rude and unfriendly.
No intergration what so ever.

And this was already the case when my Grandma went to Spain

I have some German friends but im not a fan of many Germans in big groups
It's strange that you say that. In my experience of Spain if you hear somebody in a restaurant trying to order something in pretty shitty Spanish, the odds are that that person is a German or a Swiss or Dutch or a Scandinavian. So you have to give them kudos for at least trying. Other nationalities think they are entitled to get by in their own languages. Especially the French and the English.
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  #142  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:23
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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I have some German friends but im not a fan of many Germans in big groups
What number exactly tips into the "big groups" so that you go from liking them, say at 4, people, and at 5 you don't?
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  #143  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:31
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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What number exactly tips into the "big groups" so that you go from liking them, say at 4, people, and at 5 you don't?
It really depends, one could already be enough at times
I worked for a Swiss Internet customer service once and i have to say the German customers were the most rude, arrogant and unfriendly most of the time. They were really living up to the stereotypes.
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  #144  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:43
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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I think the second WW(see Poland-German, Dutch-German) and the high immigration numbers are the main reasons for the antipathy.

It probably wont change for another generation.

erm, but what did we do to the swiss in WWII?
the nazis brought the (jewish) money here to hide it, etc. no invasion, no concentration camps on swiss ground. no swiss was shot, afaik. what i have heard from my ex ch-gf is that in history she got told that switzerland gave an agreement out that german bombers could cross their air space. so not a 100% neutral country, was it? i mean like bucentaure said, german writers, poets and others try to wash it all away and say, its about time to forget and to put away the auschwitzkeule etc. and i dont want to banalise what happened, but pot-kettle-black is on here. because while mr steinbrück brought the cavalry-indians-issue up, i have read that it will not take long and the black ss leatherjackets might be en vogue again. and 2 weeks later i read an article that this one UBS guy who reported these bank accounts of dead jews and (jewish) money stolen by the nazis is still in UBS vaults to the jewish claim fund ( i think it was) is bancrupt. and the story about him is that the UBS kicked him out of his job and he was a person non grata in CH because he did that. so all this WWII/nazi shit: up yours! CH did profit from it, maybe still does! money the UBS knew of that it was illegitimate in their posession tried to fight that off to put the reporter in a qiet spot and later teeth grinding they handed it over. at work we had discussion about it, WWII and fascism and all that. and i said that to my swiss co-workers in the cantine and it turned pretty quiet not because i said it, but because it is true! there was nothing much left they could probably say... ding-dong!

all these anti-german crap i give a shit about! yes, treverus, it is jaw-dropping and id be speechless too, though i might have said that if she had a brain, she might have been promoted. if not...go figure.

and tbh i dont want to learn any swiss dialect. what for? i can understand it and thats enough i can and will offer. as faltrand said, somebody from hamburg most likely wont take on bavarian accent or swabian or saxonian dialect. its pointless and hardly it will sound right, so its even more stupid to do that and many swiss if not all i met told me that-> leave it. happily do so!
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  #145  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:47
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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[Story]
Trev, sorry to read about your experience. We had a similar accident at the Thursday drinks at the Viadukt with my man, I might have posted it somewhere here before.

Basically, we were talking with a group of EF people, and out of nowhere this wacko interrupted our conversation and started going off about Germans. I didn't actually realize what was going on, because the guy spoke in SG and my man replied in German that he was not going to go into that conversation and that he was not going to argue with him why he should or should not, as a German, be "allowed" to be in Switzerland, and that was the end of it. I had no clue at the time, I just remember thinking "WTF is this guy"? When I asked what was going on, my man just said "Typical attitude towards Germans", but me being oblivious of the issue, I asked the guy in English what was going on, and he repeated the whole spiel in English, then, unhappy, included in the group Portuguese, Greeks, Albanians, Kosovars, Brits, people from the Suisse Romande, etc...and Italians. So I told him that I think Germans are pretty cool, that we all must love each other, and that I am Italian

Guy gave me the stare of his life. Big time wacko. However, I must say for personal experience, for this one wacko we have met tons of excellent Swiss people who love both Germans and Italians (how could you not?)
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  #146  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:52
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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When i was a kid and we went to Spain for vacation

My Moms would always try to speak Spanish to the Spanish ppl Waiters etc..
but most Germans there would talk German to the Waiters, and then when the Spanish waiters didnt understand they would act rude and unfriendly.
No intergration what so ever.

And this was already the case when my Grandma went to Spain

I have some German friends but im not a fan of many Germans in big groups

question: were these people tourists or residents? who learns a lingo before he goes on vacation? i dont know anybody. it is an advice that you should at least speak a language that is understodd in the country youre going to. because it is stupid to believe in rural spain/spain in general they understand german. in the south and their isles they do, unfortunately, but it is that many older people or people not having much money and travelling on small budget, many of them are not well educated. "good bye germany-die auswanderer" gives a nice cross-section, profile about these people and many are not much educated. and believe me: any nationality in groups sucks! i witnessed a full coach flooding a bunch of older swiss into a restaurant in Tirol on his nway home and it wasnt pleasent either.
yes, some spoke itlaian, but from the loudness, rudeness and behaviour on overall not much better than any other nationality in a group.
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  #147  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:53
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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erm, but what did we do to the swiss in WWII?
the nazis brought the (jewish) money here to hide it, etc. no invasion, no concentration camps on swiss ground. no swiss was shot, afaik. what i have heard from my ex ch-gf is that in history she got told that switzerland gave an agreement out that german bombers could cross their air space. so not a 100% neutral country, was it? i mean like bucentaure said, german writers, poets and others try to wash it all away and say, its about time to forget and to put away the auschwitzkeule etc. and i dont want to banalise what happened, but pot-kettle-black is on here. because while mr steinbrück brought the cavalry-indians-issue up, i have read that it will not take long and the black ss leatherjackets might be en vogue again. and 2 weeks later i read an article that this one UBS guy who reported these bank accounts of dead jews and (jewish) money stolen by the nazis is still in UBS vaults to the jewish claim fund ( i think it was) is bancrupt. and the story about him is that the UBS kicked him out of his job and he was a person non grata in CH because he did that. so all this WWII/nazi shit: up yours! CH did profit from it, maybe still does! money the UBS knew of that it was illegitimate in their posession tried to fight that off to put the reporter in a qiet spot and later teeth grinding they handed it over. at work we had discussion about it, WWII and fascism and all that. and i said that to my swiss co-workers in the cantine and it turned pretty quiet not because i said it, but because it is true! there was nothing much left they could probably say... ding-dong!

all these anti-german crap i give a shit about! yes, treverus, it is jaw-dropping and id be speechless too, though i might have said that if she had a brain, she might have been promoted. if not...go figure.

and tbh i dont want to learn any swiss dialect. what for? i can understand it and thats enough i can and will offer. as faltrand said, somebody from hamburg most likely wont take on bavarian accent or swabian or saxonian dialect. its pointless and hardly it will sound right, so its even more stupid to do that and many swiss if not all i met told me that-> leave it. happily do so!

Its not about what Germans did to Switzerland in WW2
its more about what they did to Europe and the World

I know its over and it has been 70 yrs
but 70 yrs is not that much on global scale, many ppl from back then are still alive
If Germany would have won, the World would be different now. But they lost so they have to live with a little bit of antipathy from some Swiss ppl if they come here in big groups, as the World still turns
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  #148  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:56
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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It's strange that you say that. In my experience of Spain if you hear somebody in a restaurant trying to order something in pretty shitty Spanish, the odds are that that person is a German or a Swiss or Dutch or a Scandinavian. So you have to give them kudos for at least trying. Other nationalities think they are entitled to get by in their own languages. Especially the French and the English.
And get by we do!

Plus we make up for it in other areas.
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  #149  
Old 10.10.2012, 16:58
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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switzerland gave an agreement out that german bombers could cross their air space. so not a 100% neutral country, was it?
Actually, that IS being neutral.

Tom
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  #150  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:03
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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If Germany would have won, the World would be different now.
thank god we didnt!! i mean at times i get the picture in full. when i was walking with my GF down to platzspitz and we headed to dynamo...in about 200m distance we heard 6-7 germans speaking! i really tend to keep my mouth shut to not be put in the pot with that stupid fellow germans i hear swaggering about BS. from my perspective these people that come here, find a job and live better off their monthly cheque and feel like "high rollers" (so their maybe the end of the line even compared to average income) spoil it for many. its that arrogance that kills it, that felt "potency". horrible! last year a mate settled over with his wife from munich. and he is that type of guy. i cant stand both of them and try at all cost not to meet them at bdays, partys, dinners... plain stupid and the facsimile of a stupid kraut.
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  #151  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:05
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Actually, that IS being neutral.

Tom

mhm, i dont know why then it is (among other things) an issue here that is set on the history class agenda as (roughly translated) the role of switzerland in WWII and its connection to nazi regime? it was lead as an example that CH was NOT so neutral. i mean, i dont care. just dont throw stones while sitting in the glass house.
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  #152  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:08
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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mhm, i dont know why then it is (among other things) an issue here that is set on the history class agenda as (roughly translated) the role of switzerland in WWII and its connection to nazi regime? it was lead as an example that CH was NOT so neutral. i mean, i dont care. just dont throw stones while sitting in the glass house.
I can recommend going to the Luftwaffe museum in Dübendorf. There's a lot of stuff on WW2 there and what the Swiss Luftwaffe was doing to protect Swiss airspace and it shows you history isn't as simple as some people try to make it.
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  #153  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:13
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

The attitude against germans exists for a long time already. The difference to now is that earlier the Germans were just tourists and only here for a few days/weeks. Now we have Germans coming for work in different fields. The more Germans the more stupid incidents will occur. So you will hear a lot more stories nowadays.

The most problem to integrate will have people in the financial/insurance sector.
In nightlife and tourism there are a lot of germans and it's easier for them, almost the same goes for health sector and public transport.

Language issue:
Germans can only do it wrong. There will be swiss people telling them they should learn SG and then there are the others who don't like it when Germans speak SG as it sounds horrible. No chance here.

What people don't see is that the Germans brought a lot of culture, art, performances to Switzerland in the last few years and are more willing to use the cultural offerings than most of the swiss.

And remember...outside of the big cities is SVP Land.
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  #154  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:39
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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This wasn't a subjective assessment Phil, but based on actual figures. Switzerland ranks as the most innovative and liveable country (or the country with the most liveable cities rather) in most rankings. It dominates the coffee market (among many other commodities, is about to overtake London as the biggest oil trader too), largest producer of chocolate, pharma and so on. Again, on a subjective level we could disagree on many of these points, but Switzerland ranks among the top 20 economies and is anything but a quaint little banking paradise, that's what I meant to say.
then you should probably say something like switzerland has the most registered patents, or whatever measure you've taken as it is not the same as being the 'most innovative' in the common sense of the word.

as for most 'liveable' surely this can only be subjective as you have to determine this based on subjectively included factors.

you can say that it also attracts many hedge funds and traders and as a result has the largest coffee trading operation (or whatever) again, different to what someone might understand as being #1 in coffee (having the best coffee, producing the most coffee beans, etc.)

i think the think that switzerland is good for is low taxation, which attracts a lot of the #1 items highlighted (hedge funds, patent holding location, etc.)
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  #155  
Old 10.10.2012, 17:53
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

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I have some German friends but im not a fan of many Germans in big groups
this is seriously some daft **** that you have written.

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  #156  
Old 10.10.2012, 18:07
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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mhm, i dont know why then it is (among other things) an issue here that is set on the history class agenda as (roughly translated) the role of switzerland in WWII and its connection to nazi regime? it was lead as an example that CH was NOT so neutral. i mean, i dont care. just dont throw stones while sitting in the glass house.
I had two old Swiss guys the same day explain the "neutrality" of Switzerland during WW2. One said they were "strategicly neutral", the other said "Switzerland was Hitler's Pig". Now, not sure exactly what he meant by the latter, but maybe there is a nice neutral in between the two.
I have heard that strategicly neutral term since being here. I have to agree it makes the most sense.
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  #157  
Old 10.10.2012, 18:44
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Re: Rise in Anti German culture

Anti-everything... everywhere you go you will find that kind of people.

People usually like to do some generalization most of the time in what I believe is a self-defense attitude... or just that moment of stupidity we all have once in a while. I have a problem with a,b and c... and they are from "republic of the green orange", therefore I don't like anyone from that country.

I have already listen to stupid xenophobic from french, swiss and germans, in normal life tasks and at work. The truth is that every culture is different and has pros an cons (even in Europe).. and most of the people that make those comments don't even respect their own friends/family/colleagues... so don't expect them to understand that group A speaks loud, group B is quiet, group C likes to party, group D loves his family, group E is vegetarian, group F just arrived and doesn't speak very well, etc...
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Old 10.10.2012, 18:59
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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I had two old Swiss guys the same day explain the "neutrality" of Switzerland during WW2. One said they were "strategicly neutral", the other said "Switzerland was Hitler's Pig". Now, not sure exactly what he meant by the latter, but maybe there is a nice neutral in between the two.
I have heard that strategicly neutral term since being here. I have to agree it makes the most sense.
Die Schweiz das kleine stachelschwein, das nehmen wier im rueckweg ein Good news he did`t
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Old 10.10.2012, 19:19
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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FFS it is exactly that. The example of the OP was without a doubt xenophobic and very personal at the girl. The Swiss guy was not having a philosophical argument about the pros and cons of immigration, he was very rude to the girl solely because of her nationality. Nobody here says that all Swiss are like this, but most Germans in Switzerland including me made some very similar experiences that even you won't be able to bullshit away.

That is the whole point of this thread: not some financial numbers in foreign trade, not some linguisitic details of the various German dialects and not the jokes every nation on this planet makes about their neighbours. Direct and outright racism and hate.

Simple example I encountered first hand myself. I was early for an expat drink taking a beer at a bar in Zurich.

Middle aged Swiss female, probably had some beers already "Excuse me, do you have a lighter?"
Me - I am sorry, but I do not smoke.
She - You are GERMAN!
Me - Er, yes... I guess my language gives this away.
She - I don't like you folks! You are "Gummihaelse"! That's what we call you... (explains me the term which I obviously knew while I am frankly speechless.)
Me - ?
She - I think there are far too many of you here now!
Me - Erm, ok... (turn away and look at my beer)
She - Really! The last years it got worse and worse! ... blablabla jobs blablabla flats got expensive blablabla her friend did not get promoted but a German boss instead...
Me - Look, I am not exactly hitting on you, why don't you just leave me alone.
She - I guess it is about time that someone tells you how WE feel.
Me - I just hope you are only drunk or something...

Is the stupid lady just representing a tiny fraction of the Swiss? Probably yes. She was quite obviously not very educated and from a working class background. But she really meant it and I am sure that guy from the OPs story was the same sort.

Did this have any impact on how I viewed my Swiss friends: Obviously not, but it did have an impact how welcome I felt overall in the country. This was my most extreme encounter, but not the only negative comment I got for being German. All of it ads up.

From my perspective does Zurich has different standards of what is acceptable of behaviour towards German immigrants than other groups. If this would happen to a black guy would somebody in the bar for sure speak up and tell her that her rant is racist.
If I had a dime for every time I was thold BS like this, hier in Canada, I would be rich.Best one out of my collection "Shut up you czechoslovakian C--- Sucker", she got everything wrong I got a good laugh out of this one

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Old 10.10.2012, 19:30
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Re: Rise is Anti German culture

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Its not about what Germans did to Switzerland in WW2
its more about what they did to Europe and the World

I know its over and it has been 70 yrs
but 70 yrs is not that much on global scale, many ppl from back then are still alive
If Germany would have won, the World would be different now. But they lost so they have to live with a little bit of antipathy from some Swiss ppl if they come here in big groups, as the World still turns
what kind of attitude is this?!? do I walk to a russian at a restaurant and yell at him because STALIN? Or some chinese guy because of Mao? Or to some cambodian guy because of Pol Pot? Maybe I can go on to hate on some french guy because - relative to the age of this planet, the napoleonic wars happened ten minutes ago ...
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