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  #81  
Old 09.11.2012, 22:39
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Well, maybe it truly is the most dishonest place the OP has ever been... in the sense that, she/he has experienced more dishonesty here than she/he ever experienced elsewhere. It's not like the Swiss are incapable of lying.

Switzerland IS often voted to be most expensive country in the world. And not everyone makes really high salaries here to compensate for the extremely high cost of living. 1/3 of our income goes to rent for an apartment. We don't have the luxury of being able to buy a house and build equity.

When my mother came here to visit, she didn't buy a thing because she was so discouraged by the prices. I couldn't blame her for not wanting to pay for the customs taxes that are handed down to consumers here, when she can very well buy the same thing for 1/2 the price in her own country.

And yes, compared to many other cultures, the Swiss are indeed not openly friendly. I'm not saying they're necessarily mean, but they certainly aren't as openly friendly as the people in, Thailand, for example.
First of all, in most countries, you have customs duties and VAT taxes . Second, the VAT in Switzerland is only 8% and not between 17% and 25% as in most other European countries. Third, not everything is expensive here and not everything is cheap in comparable countries. Fourth, "THE" Swiss are not friendlier than people in Germany or France or the Netherlands, but simply on the same "friendliness level" which may indeed not be impressive.

Thailand to the best of my knowledge is not in the centre of Europe
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  #82  
Old 09.11.2012, 22:45
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Yeah, like unpleasant generalizations about other countries besides Switzerland never happen here.
Where did I suggest that there aren't unpleasant generalizations made about other countries?

It would also be intellectually dishonest to suggest that the Swiss don't bear the brunt of it, whereas even the occasional dig at British cuisine ends up with 7 pages of angry posts and groans and negative rep, just like I said in my original post.

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Then they shouldn't visit an expat/immigrant forum.
If you're an expat who's not willing to hear your loved ones insulted on a daily basis, find another forum!
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  #83  
Old 09.11.2012, 22:47
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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I mean, you when being abroad somewhere may walk up and down a mile and not find anything you looked for, but if lucky may learn by chance that the desired object is just 200 meters away from your basis-point. Somebody may complain "there is no Migros and no Aldi and no Lidl around here and only a very small and cramped Coop" the person may then get informed that a very large COOP is on the other side of the train-station, the Aldi just a few meters behind.
As was the case with my wife.

She was living in Stabio, 100m from the Gaggiolo border.

She didn't know that there were two supermarkets, 4 pizzerie/ristorante, and several bars, all within walking distance, as her former boyfriend (i.e. borderguard) never liked going to Italy!

Tom
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Old 09.11.2012, 22:48
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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13% in WaWa ontario
And more in Tronna! (where my kid's relatives are from)
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  #85  
Old 09.11.2012, 22:49
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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That's fine. But my mom is from the U.S. and tends to only buy U.S.-made goods, so she rarely pays trickle-down customs or VAT fees. She's also a pensioner and on a very tight budget. Again, I can't blame her for being shocked by the prices here.

It's all relative to what you're accustomed to.
USA ? I on visits to the USA in 1976, 1982, 1988 and 1997 always was shocked by the exceedingly high prices of most stuff in the USA. Alright, in the past 15 years the US-Dollar has become ONE-TO-ONE with toilet paper, which really IS a problem for many arriving US-Americans

When in another country, you have to adapt. I on visits to the USA forgot about overpriced imported wines and enjoyed Californian wines (which are lousily expensive overhere). When in London for three months in 1972, I very swiflty replaced my beloved Emmentaler cheese with excellent Cheddar cheeses. I found out that Cadbury produced (produces) quite acceptable chocolate and by becoming a customer of that company saved money I then could spend on other things.

In other countries you best replace things you know with local products of a similar kind.
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  #86  
Old 09.11.2012, 22:50
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Then they shouldn't visit an expat/immigrant forum.
Major Faux-Pas given the reaction one (rightly) gets on here when saying to people that they can sod off it they don't like to live in Switzerland.
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  #87  
Old 09.11.2012, 23:09
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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And more in Tronna! (where my kid's relatives are from)
Someone is cheating your kids relatives Maybe some swiss expat
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:12
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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US-Americans
Stop that!
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:13
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Major Faux-Pas given the reaction one (rightly) gets on here when saying to people that they can sod off it they don't like to live in Switzerland.
Nah, it's true. I wouldn't log into schweizerforum.co.uk and expect to read endless posts about how delicious English food is, how fine the weather is and how civilised the locals are. I'd expect to find a litany of complaints and discontented grumblings just like those I had to endure while working for Swiss employers in England.

It's normal for exiles to grumble about their host countries with their fellow exiles. I don't see how that should be a problem for the settled, comfortable locals, surrounded by their kin and countrymen.
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:16
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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USA ? I on visits to the USA in 1976, 1982, 1988 and 1997 always was shocked by the exceedingly high prices of most stuff in the USA. Alright, in the past 15 years the US-Dollar has become ONE-TO-ONE with toilet paper, which really IS a problem for many arriving US-Americans

.
Ahh here is a proper complain,Swiss toilet paper is way too rouhg
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:16
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

Yes .... and .... No

and I didn't

I found the constant whingers there, French, Germans, Italians... just as objectionable and a pain in the butt as whinging ex-pats here
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:22
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Nah, it's true. I wouldn't log into schweizerforum.co.uk and expect to read endless posts about how delicious English food is, how fine the weather is and how civilised the locals are. I'd expect to find a litany of complaints and discontented grumblings just like those I had to endure while working for Swiss employers in England.

It's normal for exiles to grumble about their host countries with their fellow exiles. I don't see how that should be a problem for the settled, comfortable locals, surrounded by their kin and countrymen.
Not me,never ever would I do this,you absolutley wrong here,you don`t know what you taking about,you wrong wrong wrong,me think
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:32
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

The experiences here reminds me of a story I heard many years ago. It goes something like this . . .

A man was going through a particularly difficult time and sought a radical change in his life. So he went to a monastery to become a monk.
The brotherhood he joined was a very strict, silent order. He was allowed to one short conversation with the abbot once every five years. Except for this one concession, he had to remain totally silent.
After the monk had served his first five years, he was invited to see the abbot and was asked he had prepared himself for this audience. When the abbot asked him what he had to say as the culmination of five years of spiritual thought and devotion, the monk replied "the bed is hard". The abbot said "my son, these privations are meant to test us in our faith and endurance. We are strengthened by them". There it ended. Another five years passed. Again the monk was summoned to the abbot and was asked if he had prepared anything to say after this further five years of silence. The monk replied "the porridge is cold". The abbot said in reply "my son, these privations are meant to test us in our faith and endurance. We are strengthened by them". A further five years passed and again the monk was summoned to the abbot and asked if he had anything of significance to relate to the abbot. Indeed he had. He told the abbot "I am leaving". The abbot said in reply "well, the truth is that I am not sorry to see you go. You have done nothing but complain ever since you got here.
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:42
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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First of all, in most countries, you have customs duties and VAT taxes . Second, the VAT in Switzerland is only 8% and not between 17% and 25% as in most other European countries. Third, not everything is expensive here and not everything is cheap in comparable countries. Fourth, "THE" Swiss are not friendlier than people in Germany or France or the Netherlands, but simply on the same "friendliness level" which may indeed not be impressive.

Thailand to the best of my knowledge is not in the centre of Europe
Yes, I do realize of course that Thailand is not in the center of Europe. I wasn't limiting my analogy to Europe and chose Thailand on a whim because I've always heard that the people there are very friendly.

Anyways, that's not really relevant.

You can try to defend the high prices here in CH all you want, but Switzerland remains one of the most (if not the most) expensive countries in the world. Perhaps you're fortunate enough to make enough money to not really feel that, financially, but not everyone here is so fortunate.

It blows my mind that people here on the EF will go to great lengths to defend (or deny!) the high prices here in Switzerland, when it is almost always listed as either the top or 2nd most expensive country in the world.
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:48
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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It blows my mind that people here on the EF will go to great lengths to defend (or deny!) the high prices here in Switzerland, when it is almost always listed as either the top or 2nd most expensive country in the world.
Look, in thirty years here prices have barely changed from a Swiss perspective, but have increased three-fold from a US perspective!

Please get this simple fact!

Tom
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Old 09.11.2012, 23:51
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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Yes, I do realize of course that Thailand is not in the center of Europe. I wasn't limiting my analogy to Europe and chose Thailand on a whim because I've always heard that the people there are very friendly.

Anyways, that's not really relevant.

You can try to defend the high prices here in CH all you want, but Switzerland remains one of the most (if not the most) expensive countries in the world. Perhaps you're fortunate enough to make enough money to not really feel that, financially, but not everyone here is so fortunate.

It blows my mind that people here on the EF will go to great lengths to defend (or deny!) the high prices here in Switzerland, when it is almost always listed as either the top or 2nd most expensive country in the world.
And I on the other hand do not understand why people ,which complain about high prices open up a bussines . And make a shitload of money

Last edited by jrspet; 09.11.2012 at 23:52. Reason: Fixed quoting error
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Old 10.11.2012, 00:01
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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I wouldn't log into schweizerforum.co.uk and expect to read endless posts about how delicious English food is, how fine the weather is and how civilised the locals are. I'd expect to find a litany of complaints and discontented grumblings just like those I had to endure while working for Swiss employers in England.
You nearly had me there. But implicate what I expect based on what you don't expect is a nice rhetorical twist, not more.

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It's normal for exiles to grumble about their host countries with their fellow exiles. I don't see how that should be a problem for the settled, comfortable locals, surrounded by their kin and countrymen.
That's ok. Most swiss have the same hobbies. I guess it's ok to sometimes speak up when the "discussions" degenerate into just dumb generalizations if that is acceptable for you without telling me to leave the forum.
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Old 10.11.2012, 00:16
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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But she probably DOES pay sales tax, no?

Pretty much the same thing.

Tom
Not if she shops on Amazon, baby! Oh, how I love that particular loophole and how I shall miss it when it goes. Also, some states dont' have sales tax (hello, NH) and some have random exemptions, e.g. MA doesn't tax clothing purchases. I just bought some stuff online today for xmas gifts, no tax, free shipping, and 60% off. All in the comfort of my own home and delivery in 3 days.
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Old 10.11.2012, 00:22
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

No, really. Not only is the number higher (no currency exchange rates involved, just straight number) but without having to pay uncle sam in addition to the swiss, and having a much lower cost of living, it's pretty much a win on this side.
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Old 10.11.2012, 00:44
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Re: Another one bites the dust...

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The experiences here reminds me of a story I heard many years ago. It goes something like this . . .

A man was going through a particularly difficult time and sought a radical change in his life. So he went to a monastery to become a monk.
The brotherhood he joined was a very strict, silent order. He was allowed to one short conversation with the abbot once every five years. Except for this one concession, he had to remain totally silent.
After the monk had served his first five years, he was invited to see the abbot and was asked he had prepared himself for this audience. When the abbot asked him what he had to say as the culmination of five years of spiritual thought and devotion, the monk replied "the bed is hard". The abbot said "my son, these privations are meant to test us in our faith and endurance. We are strengthened by them". There it ended. Another five years passed. Again the monk was summoned to the abbot and was asked if he had prepared anything to say after this further five years of silence. The monk replied "the porridge is cold". The abbot said in reply "my son, these privations are meant to test us in our faith and endurance. We are strengthened by them". A further five years passed and again the monk was summoned to the abbot and asked if he had anything of significance to relate to the abbot. Indeed he had. He told the abbot "I am leaving". The abbot said in reply "well, the truth is that I am not sorry to see you go. You have done nothing but complain ever since you got here.
Given how the thread is going, and how the OP is...gone, this story might fit better:

A man is driving down the road and his car breaks down near a monastery. He goes to the monastery, knocks on the door, and says, "My car broke down. Do you think I could stay the night?"

The monks graciously accept him, feed him dinner, even fix his car. As the man tries to fall asleep, he hears a strange sound. A sound unlike anything he's ever heard before. The Sirens that nearly seduced Odysseus into crashing his ship comes to his mind. He doesn't sleep that night. He tosses and turns trying to figure out what could possibly be making such a seductive sound.

The next morning, he asks the monks what the sound was, but they say, "We can't tell you. You're not a monk." Distraught, the man is forced to leave.

Years later, after never being able to forget that sound, the man goes back to the monastery and pleads for the answer again.

The monks reply, "We can't tell you. You're not a monk."
The man says, "If the only way I can find out what is making that beautiful sound is to become a monk, then please, make me a monk."

The monks reply, "You must travel the earth and tell us how many blades of grass there are and the exact number of grains of sand. When you find these answers, you will have become a monk."

The man sets about his task.

After years of searching he returns as a gray-haired old man and knocks on the door of the monastery. A monk answers. He is taken before a gathering of all the monks.

"In my quest to find what makes that beautiful sound, I traveled the earth and have found what you asked for: By design, the world is in a state of perpetual change. Only God knows what you ask. All a man can know is himself, and only then if he is honest and reflective and willing to strip away self deception."

The monks reply, "Congratulations. You have become a monk. We shall now show you the way to the mystery of the sacred sound."

The monks lead the man to a wooden door, where the head monk says, "The sound is beyond that door."

The monks give him the key, and he opens the door. Behind the wooden door is another door made of stone. The man is given the key to the stone door and he opens it, only to find a door made of ruby. And so it went that he needed keys to doors of emerald, pearl and diamond.

Finally, they come to a door made of solid gold. The sound has become very clear and definite. The monks say, "This is the last key to the last door."

The man is apprehensive to no end. His life's wish is behind that door!
With trembling hands, he unlocks the door, turns the knob, and slowly pushes the door open. Falling to his knees, he is utterly amazed to discover the source of that haunting and seductive sound......

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

But, of course, I can't tell you what it is because you're not a monk.
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