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Old 10.11.2012, 09:49
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Zurich and Stockholm

Dear EFers,

I have a question (I hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not ).

I would like to ask people who have lived in Zurich and Stockholm, what are their thoughts, when it comes to:

-Weather
-Family life
-Education
-Work (Opportunities to find a job in a English-speaking environment)

I was recently in Sweden, in Stockholm to be precise, and I got the feeling that people are more "relaxed" and to my point of view, more friendly. But maybe this was also the vacations feeling.

Thanks for your input and opinions, this post is not meant to start discussion of which city is the "best", I just would like to know some opinions/experiences.

Cheers.
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Old 10.11.2012, 11:14
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

both are fabulous, I've only visited Stockholm for work but it's lovely as are the Swedes.

Bump this on Monday for the slackers too....! Otherwise it might bomb without a good answer....
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Old 10.11.2012, 11:24
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

I know both and I'd say Stockholm gets more points on many aspects you mention - don't know about education though.

Indeed, people are more relaxed there.
On a downside I have read that there is a kind of latent pressure to belong/fit in "the Swedish social mainstream" that seem to have importance in the society there.
Another point is striving after harmony : if you come from a cultural background whith a strong culture of conflict (in a positive sense!)/debate you may miss honest and frank positions and advice there, as Swedish people would prefer to tell you anything to avoid conflict. But of course, this is a generalization...

As I like Stockholm very much I'd go to Stockholm!

Just my 2 cents, hej hej
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Old 10.11.2012, 12:34
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Dear EFers,

I have a question (I hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not ).

I would like to ask people who have lived in Zurich and Stockholm, what are their thoughts, when it comes to:

-Weather
-Family life
-Education
-Work (Opportunities to find a job in a English-speaking environment)

I was recently in Sweden, in Stockholm to be precise, and I got the feeling that people are more "relaxed" and to my point of view, more friendly. But maybe this was also the vacations feeling.

Thanks for your input and opinions, this post is not meant to start discussion of which city is the "best", I just would like to know some opinions/experiences.

Cheers.
I have been in Stockholm a bit. And here's my opinion:

a) Weather. A bit more stable but cold in winter but longer summer. The key difference is the stability - Zurich weather is unpredictable. Truly.

b) Family life. Roughly the same in quality with maybe Zurich having slightly better standard (all things considered) given the higher wages, lower tax despite the higher cost. Probably safer. For expats, Stockholm will work out marginally better because people are slightly more social and speak English much more. I'm always delighted with the English language skills in the Nordic countries. I think lower income groups might fare better in Stockholm because the social systems are stronger there.

c) Education: I'd say Stockholm. Lower cost of living, free tuition and probably less rigid part-time work laws.

d) Work: Zurich. Less unemployment and more opportunities in Switzerland in general.
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Old 10.11.2012, 13:18
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

I've lived both in Sweden and Switzerland. Family life is very different. If you favour the more traditional approach with stay-at-home mum, Switzerland is suitable for this. If both parents want to work then that's actually possible in Sweden, childcare, flexible working , parental leave etc. And no teacher will tell a working mum they're evil and damaging their kids - like I've read on this forum happens here.

Weather is quite a bit colder though.
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Old 10.11.2012, 16:45
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Dear EFers,

I have a question (I hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not ).

I would like to ask people who have lived in Zurich and Stockholm, what are their thoughts, when it comes to:

-Weather
-Family life
-Education
-Work (Opportunities to find a job in a English-speaking environment)

I was recently in Sweden, in Stockholm to be precise, and I got the feeling that people are more "relaxed" and to my point of view, more friendly. But maybe this was also the vacations feeling.

Thanks for your input and opinions, this post is not meant to start discussion of which city is the "best", I just would like to know some opinions/experiences.

Cheers.
I've lived in both and would take Stockholm over Zurich many times over, but as always YMMV.

Weather - Stockholm, like it's Nordic neighbors, has very manic seasons, i.e. in the summer the daylight lasts 18+ hours and in the winter it's cold (-10 on avg iirc) but it's the 4 or less hours of daylight in the darkest months that can get to you. If it snows it makes things much less grim and bearable. Proximity to the baltic sea is a bonus.

Zurich is mild, but it's often foggy and gloomy and mild in the winter months (although there was that siberian blast last year), but the summers are nice and a bit warmer.

Family life - Depends on what you value. Some Swedish women I met in ZH were very high on the fact that the 'woman doesn't have to work' in Switzerland as opposed to Sweden. One of them had 3 kids and a shiny new range rover so I'm not so sure she'd be a wage slave in Sweden either but...generally the lower salaries and higher taxes make it so that both parents need to work, but the labor laws make it much easier to do in that parents may stay home with an ill child if needed, there is subsidised daycare, etc. I'd say that Sweden is definitely more attractive to a woman who wants to work, particularly if they only speak English (though Swedish is pretty easy to pick up).

Education - I'm not sure which level of education you're interested in but, from what I've observed myself and judging by the PISA studies, Sweden is far ahead of Switzerland.

Work - For finding jobs in English, again, it depends on the industry/sector, but most Swedes speak excellent English and many companies have English as their working language so, overall, I'd say that English is much more common in Sweden and easier to find work where it's either the primary language or one where you can skate on until you can learn Swedish. Swedish is much easier to learn than Swiss German.

If you can handle the manic daylight and seasons, Stockholm is a nicer place to live overall. Maybe visit over Christmas and see if you could handle the darkness and the cold as that is really the thing that gets to the non-natives the most.
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Old 10.11.2012, 18:21
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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from what I've observed myself and judging by the PISA studies, Sweden is far ahead of Switzerland.
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...nt_performance

Regarding daylight, it currently gets dark in Zurich at 5pm, in Stockholm at 3:30pm and in late December the days are almost 2.5h shorter up there:

http://www.sunrise-and-sunset.com/de.../2012/dezember
http://www.sunrise-and-sunset.com/en.../2012/december
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Old 10.11.2012, 20:47
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Dear EFers,

I have a question (I hope this is the right section of the forum, apologies if not ).

I would like to ask people who have lived in Zurich and Stockholm, what are their thoughts, when it comes to:

-Weather
-Family life
-Education
-Work (Opportunities to find a job in a English-speaking environment)

I was recently in Sweden, in Stockholm to be precise, and I got the feeling that people are more "relaxed" and to my point of view, more friendly. But maybe this was also the vacations feeling.

Thanks for your input and opinions, this post is not meant to start discussion of which city is the "best", I just would like to know some opinions/experiences.

Cheers.
...from a Swede...

Weather: Summer - Stockholm, Winter - Zürich

Family life: Depending on 2 things, 1. how many children? 2. will you both work? If you have children and both want to work Stockholm is the place, way better opportunities...
if both of you are working and have no children you will love Zürich.

BUT in Sweden if you want to get children you will get 15 months maternity leave split between father and mother...I missed that one...=(
(in Switzerland the fathers get ONE day...)

Education: I think in the beginning (from 1st class up to 6th grade) it is more relaxed in Sweden...I don't like the school system here.

Work: Probably easier to find a job in Zürich at the moment, language wise it is more or less the same. You will probably hear more english here than in sweden...
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Old 10.11.2012, 21:17
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

Oops, I was thinking of Finland but, still, the Nordic countries educate their populace very well and, though they start later, they manage and they also do the university/vocational split a few years later.

Quote:
Regarding daylight, it currently gets dark in Zurich at 5pm, in Stockholm at 3:30pm and in late December the days are almost 2.5h shorter up there:

http://www.sunrise-and-sunset.com/de.../2012/dezember
http://www.sunrise-and-sunset.com/en.../2012/december
Spoken like someone who hasn't been there and thinks the number of hours is all that we're talking about here wrt light. The declination of the sun is rather extreme above 60 deg lat. Also, if it's cloudy, you get decidedly less light. One December of note only had something like 12 hours of visible daylight during the entire month. And, thanks to climate change, often Nov/Dec have little, if any, snow which make it even darker. There are lights many people have that are theraputic and stave off the depression with so little light.
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Old 10.11.2012, 21:34
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Work: Probably easier to find a job in Zürich at the moment, language wise it is more or less the same. You will probably hear more english here than in sweden...
You really think so? I used to get so frustrated both in Stockholm and Helsinki in that everyone would nearly always speak English to me to 'practise' their already fine English. English signage is also very common, much more common than Switzerland (actually, I don't recall seeing much in the way of English signage in Switzerland outside of the airport and tourist stops but I wasn't all that surprised by that either).

I'm really surprised at your impression since English was absolutely everywhere in Stockholm which was the complete opposite of what I experienced in Zurich.

I will agree, though, that job-wise it's probably a bit easier in Zurich but the economic crisis is certainly changing that game daily so it's hard to predict.
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Old 10.11.2012, 22:09
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

Stockholm...

1.- Find a place to live in Stockholm is one of the most difficult tasks this world.
2.- If you don't speak Swedish, is complicated to not say impossible find a job there.
3.- Weather?... Is Sweden, so.. spring and summer are AMAZING!!!... but during the winter uhm!
4.- Definitely for kids is one of the best places where they can grow up in the world.

P.S I used to live there for one year .. but its just my opinion. (my english is a disaster)
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Old 11.11.2012, 11:18
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Regarding daylight, it currently gets dark in Zurich at 5pm, in Stockholm at 3:30pm and in late December the days are almost 2.5h shorter up there:
Hi Andreas, thanks for your input, yes, I agree that the days are shorter in Winter, but when it comes to Winter in Zurich, according my own personal experience, it can be cloudy for weeks, without hint of the sun, is this the same case in Stockholm in average? I would prefer a shorter day but with a more intensive, cloud-free sky.
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Old 11.11.2012, 13:26
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

If you go look at local.se forum (I believe sister site to this one) you will see lots and lots of threads re 'I don't speak Swedish and can't find work'.

The basic problem: Almost all Swedes speak excellent English, so why hire a non-Swedish-speaking foreigner?

Ok same applies to some extent in Switzerland, but then I guess expats don't move to Switzerland looking for work ... they get transferred or hired from abroad for their specialized skills, particularly in finance. Also German/French are more widely spoken than Swedish!
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Old 11.11.2012, 14:14
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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You really think so? I used to get so frustrated both in Stockholm and Helsinki in that everyone would nearly always speak English to me to 'practise' their already fine English. English signage is also very common, much more common than Switzerland (actually, I don't recall seeing much in the way of English signage in Switzerland outside of the airport and tourist stops but I wasn't all that surprised by that either).

I'm really surprised at your impression since English was absolutely everywhere in Stockholm which was the complete opposite of what I experienced in Zurich.

I will agree, though, that job-wise it's probably a bit easier in Zurich but the economic crisis is certainly changing that game daily so it's hard to predict.
Swedish companies are not very good at utilizing existing qualified foreign workforce (e.g. x-refugees etc)...e.g. you can find cleaners from Iran with a PhD cleaning hospitals, this will probably never happen in Switzerland...

About the signage, can't really recall, but it's hard to believe that any country beats Switzerland in terms of signage
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Old 11.11.2012, 14:18
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Stockholm...

1.- Find an attractive place to live in Stockholm is one of the most difficult tasks this world.
2.- If you don't speak Swedish, is complicated to not say impossible find a job there.
3.- Weather?... Is Sweden, so.. spring and summer are AMAZING!!!... but during the winter uhm!
4.- Definitely for kids is one of the best places where they can grow up in the world.

P.S I used to live there for one year .. but its just my opinion. (my english is a disaster)
corrected that one
You may easily find an apartment in the suburbs...

Regarding the language, yes the English is Sweden is quite good, but somehow it is more for socializing than for professional...
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Old 11.11.2012, 14:23
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

I have never been to Sweden and so cannot judge the country nor can I compare. However, a business friend who grew up in Egypt, but between 1965 and 69 lived and worked in Zürich, later in Ankara, Tehran and since 1973 in Nicosia, 3 years ago visited Stockholm. He was surprised how much Stockholm reminded him of Zürich. Many of the buildings, the atmosphere, the mentality of the people, the way of life.

Things often depend on the perspectives. Possibly also on whether you are ready to accept impressions fully and without prejudices.
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Old 11.11.2012, 14:28
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

My 2 öre:

Stockholm - short summers, much shorter than Zürich
English ( even with Polisen ) - much more than in Zürich
Stockholm - beautiful city of islands, very green and affordable cruises right from Slussen to Marieham, Turku, Helsinki and even further through a magnificent archipelago.

SBB vs SJ for trains = some SJ rolling stock is superior to SBB. Great deals by SJ especially on Swedish Ebay Tradera for last minute high speed long distance travel.

Public transport = both are equally efficient although Stockholm can be pricey on single tickets.
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Old 11.11.2012, 14:55
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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My 2 öre:

Stockholm - short summers, much shorter than Zürich
English ( even with Polisen ) - much more than in Zürich
Stockholm - beautiful city of islands, very green and affordable cruises right from Slussen to Marieham, Turku, Helsinki and even further through a magnificent archipelago.
Aaaah the archipelago ... so beautiful! But then Zurich is quite blessed with natural wonders nearby too!

If you like boating - Stockholm.
If you like climbing/walking/skiing - Zurich.
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Old 11.11.2012, 15:22
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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My 2 öre:

Stockholm - short summers, much shorter than Zürich
English ( even with Polisen ) - much more than in Zürich
Stockholm - beautiful city of islands, very green and affordable cruises right from Slussen to Marieham, Turku, Helsinki and even further through a magnificent archipelago.

SBB vs SJ for trains = some SJ rolling stock is superior to SBB. Great deals by SJ especially on Swedish Ebay Tradera for last minute high speed long distance travel.

Public transport = both are equally efficient although Stockholm can be pricey on single tickets.
- For somebody who grew up in Cairo, temperatures in BOTH Zürich and Stockholm are rather low in general
- City of Islands ? Have I to send you a map of Zürich-downtown, showing you that the area between Schanzengraben and Limmat IS an island ?
- the rolling stock of SBB/ZVV differs vastly.
- languages ? the chap I mentioned writes and fluently speaks Italian, Arabic, English, French, German, Turkish, Farsi and Greek and so seldom meets problems
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Old 11.11.2012, 15:27
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Re: Zurich and Stockholm

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Aaaah the archipelago ... so beautiful! But then Zurich is quite blessed with natural wonders nearby too!

If you like boating - Stockholm.
If you like climbing/walking/skiing - Zurich.
But I might, when in Zürich, recommend taking either a boat on the lake or a Limmat-Schiff (both are part of the ZVV). You can go to beautiful Rapperswil, one trip by boat and the return by S-Bahn, using the same ZVV ticket. The Limmatschiffe are also highly recommdendable.

And if you want to get "up" in Zürich I might recommend to take the S4 (Sihltalbahn) to Adliswil, to walk up to Zelgstrasse and there take the Seibahn to the Felsenegg and then to walk over to the nice restaurant with a splendid view onto lake and the city.
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