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Old 13.11.2012, 18:12
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Ok...if you know about branded products maybe you can answer this one.

Why can I buy exactly the same product in Germany for one third or even a quarter of the price I pay here?

I've heard about import duties (non EU), labour costs etc...but I still don't get it. Somebody is making massive profits off the back of Swiss consumers. In my opinion they are using the loyalty of Swiss consumers to their own stores to rip them off time and time again. There's a line between loyalty and being a sucker.


That's my observation after a couple of years here.

You have heard of import duties? Why not cross a border and ask customs to give you a free leaflet on those duties, and use your eyes too? What's not to get? You've also heard about the wages here in Switzerland? By chance get a pay check here, and have previous paycheck in another EU or non Eu country? Why not tell me some actual facts you do know, and not allleged "heard" sources?

Fish imported up to 20 kilos, duty free, fact.
Fish that are not all ready here, are taxed less as they are non competing fish-like shrimp-fact.
Shrimp per kilo, cost less then Swiss chicken, also true.
Beef up to 1 kilo duty free, cattle are a domestic and heavily subsidized agriculutural product, so is milk, so there are duties and limits on these.
Wine has duty charges, but you can bring as much over as you like, not for re sale.
Vegetables, I don't know where you shop, but the tomatoes, broccolli, onions, carrots, and so on, a cheaper at my local Coop then Super U or Carrefour in France. So why bother to add Co2's and time in the car to get cheaper vegetables here. In fact, with the exception of beef, cured meats, some fish, and gourmet products my shopping is almost exactly the same as it is in France. I have no idea how they figured out how to rip you off.

And I can't speak for Swiss people, but I can say this...I think there is nothing wrong with supporting your local economy. I remember when I used to live in France, and there was a time that almost every product had a label on it that read Made in France. Now so much comes from everwhere else, like Chinese tools that break after 2 or 3 uses. Wow, great idea.

Portugal is the same. Their economy hasn't been good for years, but atleast had textiles and metalworks. Now so much of that is gone, and the chinese have even set up shop and selling chinese goods in Portugal, by chinese immigrants. Another great idea.

Switzerland is more expensive because wages are higher. All this complaining, and you are still taking your CHF's to France to get your money's worth work. I like the idea, of a customer eating at my restaurant, where we buy Swiss beef, so that, that Swiss farmer buys Swiss grown feed, where that farmer buys food to eat from Coop, where that Coop worker can afford to come to my restaurant and buy my food, so that I can get paid, so that I can buy tomatoes from Coop, grown on a Swiss farm.

This system actually works, and it's a cycle that everyone can profit from, some more then others. And if someone wants to change work with in that system, he can, and benefit as well.

He doesn't have to leave the country, to make extra money, to send it back home to balance things out.

That's what I don't get about your reasoning. People aren't getting screwed. Europe has fooled around with allowing Chinese products and other countries to dump on their economy, and now so many of them try to work and get into here, and how are they doing financially?

True they can stock their homes with lesser quality goods, and pile up debt. And it moves slower here, and harder to buy a house, and your Dorade is 10 times more expensive. But the fact is debt is lower, and I can save money where I almost never could in France.
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Old 13.11.2012, 18:34
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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It gives me a business idea....importing normal Wellington boots from a Wallmart/Asda (the kind I had as kid). Stick a fancy label on them with a name like 'Royal' or 'Horsey', set up at stall in Kusnacht or Herrliberg and sell them for 150 CHF. That would be approx 130 CHF profit on each pair.

I think that would work quite well...unless 150 CHF would be considered too cheap?
Brilliant idea, hey. But a bit late- I thought you were on your way out Are you still here? Toodeloo.
  #63  
Old 13.11.2012, 18:45
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Re: Expensive broccoli

Broccoli is totally overrated anyway.
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Old 13.11.2012, 20:37
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Ok...if you know about branded products maybe you can answer this one.

Why can I buy exactly the same product in Germany for one third or even a quarter of the price I pay here?

I've heard about import duties (non EU), labour costs etc...but I still don't get it. Somebody is making massive profits off the back of Swiss consumers. In my opinion they are using the loyalty of Swiss consumers to their own stores to rip them off time and time again. There's a line between loyalty and being a sucker.


That's my observation after a couple of years here.
Because the Swiss will pay those prices and the Germans won't. Simple
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Old 13.11.2012, 21:22
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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That they want it and can afford it. That's what you are missing
they want it because they believe it MUST be so much better than the 4 chf/kg crap everyone else buys, and they feel better about themselves because they can afford it and others can only post about it on the Forum. That's what you're missing.

but really. it's the same shit.
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Old 13.11.2012, 21:25
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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they want it because they believe it MUST be so much better than the 4 chf/kg crap everyone else buys, and they feel better about themselves because they can afford it and others can only post about it on the Forum. That's what you're missing.

but really. it's the same shit.
That wasn't the question. He asked why products are more expensive here, not about organics
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Old 13.11.2012, 21:40
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Because the Swiss will pay those prices and the Germans won't. Simple
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they want it because they believe it MUST be so much better than the 4 chf/kg crap everyone else buys, and they feel better about themselves because they can afford it and others can only post about it on the Forum. That's what you're missing.

but really. it's the same shit.
There's a bit of truth in both of those statements, but the Swiss do also know what quality tastes like, and they are also prepared to pay more to support small scale agriculture, Bio production and small scale retail operations like mine where the staff are knowledgeable and passionate about what they do. And if the product is also exclusive and rare, and very high quality, price doesn't come into it. At all.

If these consumers earn a lot of money, then the difference between buying a few veg at Migros or at a farmers market, or buying a lump of mass produced Emmentaler, or a piece of my cheese, is still only a small part of one percent of their monthly shopping basket.

And yes, they probably will feel good better about themselves, but they will also have something special. And something special that, more importantly, they can afford.
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Old 14.11.2012, 00:26
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Re: Expensive broccoli

They, of course, are most likely aware of the price differences, and the quality differences (real or imagined). They go ahead and buy the product, not solely because they can afford it, but because they also want to support the local grower as opposed to the big company.
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Old 14.11.2012, 04:29
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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There's a bit of truth in both of those statements, but the Swiss do also know what quality tastes like, and they are also prepared to pay more to support small scale agriculture, Bio production and small scale retail operations like mine where the staff are knowledgeable and passionate about what they do. And if the product is also exclusive and rare, and very high quality, price doesn't come into it. At all.

If these consumers earn a lot of money, then the difference between buying a few veg at Migros or at a farmers market, or buying a lump of mass produced Emmentaler, or a piece of my cheese, is still only a small part of one percent of their monthly shopping basket.

And yes, they probably will feel good better about themselves, but they will also have something special. And something special that, more importantly, they can afford.
There's a lot of truth in paying a premium for something you value or something special. I live within walking distance to a working organic farm that has a rather large farm stand/specialty shop that caters to this very sort of clientele. I buy fresh eggs by the dozen there for about $4 which is about $1 more than what I'd get at a supermarket but without the freshness. However, they do sell veg in the off season that they didn't raise themselves (really, at this time of year in the northern hemisphere, what local farm does raise their own broccoli other than folks in California or other warm latitudes?) at a markup that makes Whole Foods look cheap...and so I don't buy those at the farm. I do buy a lot of their imported cheeses though.

It is a fair curiosity wondering who buys off-season broccoli from a market stand this time of year for such a high price when logic would probably demand that it's not grown anywhere locally and probably not even within the EU (unless it's a hothouse product of Spain, etc.) which means it's likely supplied by the same people who sell to Migros and COOP who sell it at a much lower price. It seems to work as good on the business types for getting 11chf/kg but it does make you wonder who pays it and why.
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Old 14.11.2012, 07:09
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Migros and Co-Op are discounters? That's news to me.
Migros always was a discounter. This is the raison d'etre of the Migros co-operatives and a central point of the basic rules and regulations. COOP is the result of mergers of two discounters (Konsum-Verein & Lebensmittel-Verein) and also a discounter. The price level of both was and is below the general retail trade. Look at COOP. 1 kg of Spaghetti for CHF 1.-- and 300 grams of mustard for CHF -.90 , just to pick two examples, is ways below traditional supermarkets like Marinello and PRE-Schwery-Denner.

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It's Swiss humour. I don't get it either.
They are discounters just like Lidl and Aldi. But while Aldi and Lidl could raise their price-level by 100 percent on a fixed date, Migros and Coop cannot, due to the cooperatives-regulations and because the members would stop them.

Amazing is that two private German companies forced both to go back to their roots, just as the members requested for quite a while. In case of Migros it is the end of the Pierre Arnold "let's go upmarket" philosophy.

It will be interesting to see what comes outg of the new Migros-Migrolino-Socar alliance

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Closed spaces...you mean Switzerland?

Cooperative? You mean cooperating on pricing with 'competitors'?
Co-operatives are NOT owned by either single persons or shareholders but by members of the Co-operative. Migros originally was an A.G. (Company of Limited Liability) until Mr Duttweiler handed the company over to the various Migros Co-operatives who are intelinked through the Migros Genossenschaftsbund (Union of Migros co-operatives). COOP resulted out of the gradual merger of some 500 co-operatives between about 1880 and 1980 into a single co-operative. It was Mr Loosli who converted the rather inefficient structure of the 1970ies into a truly efficient and modern one.

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I wonder if Carrefour or Tescos or Edeka will ever be allowed to open a store here?

COOP and Migros take a good percentage of my income...I'd like more choice please (on price and products), and I don't want to drive 2 hours to get it.

That would be a free market...literally.

Carrefour even HAD stores here, but to launch them in alliance with Maus-Nordmann (MANOR) was a mistake and lead to its end. They however could RE-enter any time, hopefully then with a good arrangement.

Tesco or Edeka or Walmart etc ARE allowed to open stores any time, just as Spar and Lidl and Aldi and Mediamarkt did.

2 hours do drive ? by donkey-cart ? look at www.aldi.ch www.lidl.ch who have stores within half an hour from most urban locations. While not everything is cheaper there than in Migros and COOP, the price level is between 10% and 30% lower, and they have lots of different products. The two chains widened the choice in a remarkable way.

What is the problem for companies like Walmart and Tesco ? As, when EPA was for sale, the then CEO of Walmart explained to Swiss press people, the three Swiss markets are simply too small for Walmart, and too fragmented marketing-wise. Why ? You cannot successfully sell a product in Geneva which was successful in Zürich by simply translating the texts. You have to change style and arguments and the approach to meet the clientele there. Go to Lugano. You will find Migros and Coop and Globus and Manor etc, but when you enter, while seeing products you know, the presentation is more like Milano. But this does not mean that the Ticino marketing-wise is 1-to-1 with Italy. Got across the Rhine south-east of the Bodensee. You then are in Vorarlberg which is one of the state of Austria. But in many ways, while out of Switzerland, are NOT in Austria marketing-wise. And now go to Tesco and tell them you want them to open up in Switzerland, in the "Deep South" of Germany and in Vorarlberg and listen what they tell you

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I have noticed a massive label fetish here. I have a theory about that....label fetishes are quite common among teenagers and poorer people in rich countries...kind of a desperate need to belong to something or show that you are worth something...generally based on deep insecurity. Don't know what that says about folk around Zurich...maybe they just have too much cash!!
There is not more label-fetish here than elsewhere in Europe. Label fetish is quite common among old and wealthy people plus among many prestige-craving teenagers. That no-label products (noteably in C&A H&M Denner) are particularily successful in Zürich says that people are in lack of cash.

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Old 14.11.2012, 09:35
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Re: Expensive broccoli

Can somebody (maybe one of the legends) send me a copy of their Swiss book of brainwashing. My Gemeinde didn't give me a copy when I registered, so I feel all left out.

I've seen lesson 5...

The belief that international brands sold in Switzerland are somehow of better quality than the the same product sold in a third world country such as Germany, France or the UK.

I'm still waiting on my Adidas running shoes I paid 50 UK pounds for (75 CHF) to fall apart...it's been 4 months now. If I had read the Swiss book of brainwashing I would definately have gone to Sportxx or Athleticum and paid CHF 270 for the same shoes. I would then feel good about supporting the Swiss economy by parting with an extra 195 CHF.

Must be the transport costs.....
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Old 14.11.2012, 09:45
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Re: Expensive broccoli

You forgot to include the brainwashing rule number 6 that just because you are paid a swiss salary you need to think that spending heaps of franks in switzerland is better then walking across the border and spending less therefore allowing you to keep some of those hard earned franks.
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Old 14.11.2012, 09:49
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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You forgot to include the brainwashing rule number 6 that just because you are paid a swiss salary you need to think that spending heaps of franks in switzerland is better then walking across the border and spending less therefore allowing you to keep some of those hard earned franks.
Prices across the border (Italy) aren't cheaper for most things, and certainly not enough to cover the travel costs.

We do shop there for certain things, or if we're there for other reasons (visiting friends or relatives).

Tom
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:07
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Can somebody (maybe one of the legends) send me a copy of their Swiss book of brainwashing. My Gemeinde didn't give me a copy when I registered, so I feel all left out.

I've seen lesson 5...

The belief that international brands sold in Switzerland are somehow of better quality than the the same product sold in a third world country such as Germany, France or the UK.

I'm still waiting on my Adidas running shoes I paid 50 UK pounds for (75 CHF) to fall apart...it's been 4 months now. If I had read the Swiss book of brainwashing I would definately have gone to Sportxx or Athleticum and paid CHF 270 for the same shoes. I would then feel good about supporting the Swiss economy by parting with an extra 195 CHF.

Must be the transport costs.....
Gave a look onto the WEBsite of Sportxx

http://www.sportxx.ch/de/schuhe/m54-...?flyout=schuhe

and see that most prices in question are between CHF 100.-- and 190

and then I gave a look onto Adidas UK

http://www.adidas.co.uk/mens-shoes/m...prefv1=Running

and see prices between UK£ 80.-- and 130.--

and then went to Dosenbach

http://www.dosenbach.ch/CH/de/shop/s...4.1.1355472314

and see prices for Adidas shoes of between CHF 30 and CHF 90

conclusion: you paid too much in the U.K.
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:09
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Re: Expensive broccoli

Agreed with Tom, Italy is often more expensive than Switzerland... makes me miss living near Germany That being said... I am quite happy with my 50cent, locally grown Austrian Broccoli I bought yesterday
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:16
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Agreed with Tom, Italy is often more expensive than Switzerland... makes me miss living near Germany That being said... I am quite happy with my 50cent, locally grown Austrian Broccoli I bought yesterday
Good point. Few people mention that Austria has an average price level which is not low, but clearly lower than in Switzerland. Another aspect, I avoided to mention in the previous post of course is that ADIDAS (A.Dässler) is a GERMAN company and neither British nor American, which explains the relatively high prices of that snobbery company in the U.K. "Puma" in fact is a sister company of Adidas by origin which became separate. As being less of a prestige brand, Puma products usually cost less than Adidas stuff and often are better
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:17
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Gave a look onto the WEBsite of Sportxx

http://www.sportxx.ch/de/schuhe/m54-...?flyout=schuhe

and see that most prices in question are between CHF 100.-- and 190

and then I gave a look onto Adidas UK

http://www.adidas.co.uk/mens-shoes/m...prefv1=Running

and see prices between UK£ 80.-- and 130.--

and then went to Dosenbach

http://www.dosenbach.ch/CH/de/shop/s...4.1.1355472314

and see prices for Adidas shoes of between CHF 30 and CHF 90

conclusion: you paid too much in the U.K.

Did you write the book of brainwashing?

So you know what type of shoes I bought and where I bought them. That's absolutely amazing!!! You should be on tv!

You are also an expert on UK online sports retailers I see.

You're right...I made all this up...it didn't happen.

Now I'm getting the hang of this brainwashing thing....there's hope for me yet.
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:52
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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I have noticed a massive label fetish here. I have a theory about that....label fetishes are quite common among teenagers and poorer people in rich countries...kind of a desperate need to belong to something or show that you are worth something...generally based on deep insecurity. Don't know what that says about folk around Zurich...maybe they just have too much cash!!
I agree. Not so much about the "Bio" labels, but labels (brand names on the outside of clothing/shoes).

It was highly amusing for me in the beginning, but now it`s become downright boring. The way everyone carries on about the label on what people are wearing - it seems an assumption that the label means "Designer wear" - which means "Quality"?

Every tin-pot boutique with their own name stuck on the outside of clothing seems now to be deemed "a designer" product?!

Amusing it was to watch some young people perusing a bunch of good second-hand clothes handed down from a high earner family member........
The designer freak grabbed the shirts with Tommy Hilfiger labels, and squashed himself into the too small shirts.
Another grabbed the jeans with big label exclaiming Diesel although they looked like something discarded by a tramp.
Last in line was a youngster happy to find a couple well tailored shirts of good quality fabric - minus famous "name brands" emblazoned on outside.
Guess which above person will have the most use for what they chose?

To paraphrase what Nil said - money (price) should not erase common sense.

What Grumpygrapefruit says about his cheeses ....... good food is about quality. We spend a fortune on medical aid and doctors, when we could better use that money to feed ourselves nutritionally.

Broccoli for Sfr11 a kilo? Sounds a lot. But then again not everyone buys a KILOGRAM of Broccoli - one bunch is very light, so actually not that expensive, huh?
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Old 14.11.2012, 10:57
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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I agree. Not so much about the "Bio" labels, but labels (brand names on the outside of clothing/shoes).

It was highly amusing for me in the beginning, but now it`s become downright boring. The way everyone carries on about the label on what people are wearing - it seems an assumption that the label means "Designer wear" - which means "Quality"?

Every tin-pot boutique with their own name stuck on the outside of clothing seems now to be deemed "a designer" product?!
Welcome to, erm, 15 years ago?
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Old 14.11.2012, 11:13
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Re: Expensive broccoli

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Welcome to, erm, 15 years ago?
Yes, 15 years ago, I think people had some common sense?

15 years ago one bought a designer article because it was an investment in good quality, good design, and was recognised for it`s specialness, not by the name stitched down the legs/across the back/big red label on chest.

The fetish to wear the cheap badly cut clothing as long as it has a "name" on it truly does smack of insecurity and a longing to be accepted into some clique of fellow ignoramuses (ii? what`s the plural of hippopotamus? )

Perhaps it`s a personality flaw? .... "I`m Diesel Jeans wearer" makes more of a statement about one than being able to hold an intelligent conversation?
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