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  #41  
Old 01.12.2012, 00:24
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

But this is a brilliant idea!

Don't you see? This guy has put a "scanned document" in which he has put ridiculous sum of money; then he asked his friend to "discover it" and tell around the office.

If this does not get the attention of young ladies at the office, nothing will! Now observe the ladies who start going with him to lunch breaks....

Absolutely brilliant! I wish I had this idea...
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  #42  
Old 01.12.2012, 01:23
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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Now observe the ladies who start going with him to lunch breaks
Expecting him to pay for everything
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Absolutely brilliant! I wish I had this idea
Until you run out of money.
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  #43  
Old 01.12.2012, 03:05
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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I would do that too but I did not find it. It was shown to me several days after it was left in the public folder. Every Friday the folder is emptied so if it was not deleted/removed already it would for certain disappear today.
And here I was under the impression a lot of folks around here were of the IT persuasion....

Assuming you have an IT department, I'd give them the details of the incident because folks who run the systems are responsible for privacy of sensitive documents. To be fair, the private document of your colleague was probably not supposed to be on a work computer, but in the real world, lots of folks seem to use work systems for private data which often leads to complications like your douchebag colleague gave you a prime example of. The good guy needs to be informed since he may have lots of other data on his system that he might leave in the public folder which he would be more mindful of if he was informed. The douchebag needs to have his nuts removed and served to him for lunch on a platter with a crusty roll.

My least favorite technology is users mostly because they do all sorts of dumb things like put personal stuff on work systems and leave their passwords pasted on post-its on their monitors. I keep threatening to write a book someday of all the fun stories about users and the dumb things they do...but I digress. The IT folks should be told if only so they can do a storage sweep and remind folks about how public vs private storage works and, if they want to be really fun about it, they can warn folks about posting the most interesting personal docs they find in the public folder in the coffee lounge every Friday afternoon....
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  #44  
Old 01.12.2012, 10:20
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

Showing around the document: Big no-no.
Deleting the document: No. It's not my document, it's not my business. I'm not supposed to delete it.
Telling the owner about the document: Most likely yes, but depends on relationship/circumstances

Interesting, but probably little known fact (and maybe the reason the owner didn't care much): The tax register (Steuerregister) in the Canton of Zurich is public by default. I.e. everyone can go to your local Steueramt and ask them about the amounts of your taxable assets and income unless you have the information blocked which can be done with this form (PDF).

Last edited by Mark75; 01.12.2012 at 10:33.
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  #45  
Old 01.12.2012, 10:59
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?



The Pope has just called and asked if there's anyway to convert you to Catholicism as we need a modern day saint.



I told the Pope he should join EF and become your friend. The pope was overjoyed.



Taken as the pope proclaimed "That Elggdk is a good man. We need men like that on our team."
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  #46  
Old 01.12.2012, 11:59
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

I've posted some good jokes on EF over the years and the Pope never said I was a good man. Humourless bastard.
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  #47  
Old 01.12.2012, 12:07
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

A lot of things you could do,
one thing you have to:
tell the owner he left it behind and it got into other people's hands.

And your colleague has twisted morals that could get him into trouble
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  #48  
Old 01.12.2012, 12:16
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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As a Besitzer you are not allowed to use and give away the “thing” but as far as I know, there is no law telling me to return the “thing” unless I’m asked to do so by the Eigentümer."
what an unscrupulous, pedantic, self-righteous, delusional arsehole. I would watch out for this guy...
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  #49  
Old 01.12.2012, 12:22
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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"...as far as I know, there is no law telling me to return the “thing” unless I’m asked to do so by the Eigentümer."

I think he is wrong !
I think he sounds like a prize c***.

Certainly in my company that would be a disciplinary offence and is specifically covered by our security policy.
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  #50  
Old 01.12.2012, 12:43
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

I wouldn't have thought there was a specific 'duty of care' although maybe there is I'd look at your employment contract and see what it says under 'conduct' regarding fellow employees.
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  #51  
Old 01.12.2012, 13:35
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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But this is a brilliant idea!

Don't you see? This guy has put a "scanned document" in which he has put ridiculous sum of money; then he asked his friend to "discover it" and tell around the office.

If this does not get the attention of young ladies at the office, nothing will! Now observe the ladies who start going with him to lunch breaks....

Absolutely brilliant! I wish I had this idea...
yeah right... so go on then. what's stopping you?
not like the original guy has claimed a copyright on the idea...
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  #52  
Old 01.12.2012, 13:51
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The Pope has just called and asked if there's anyway to convert you to Catholicism as we need a modern day saint.



I told the Pope he should join EF and become your friend. The pope was overjoyed.



Taken as the pope proclaimed "That Elggdk is a good man. We need men like that on our team."
Thank you my friend but being on the "other team" satisfies my spiritual needs. However, I might consider sending you a big gift for Christmas as a bonus for your lobby work.
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  #53  
Old 02.12.2012, 08:21
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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Good that the owner wasn't concerned
Don't be so sure the owner wasn't concerned, perhaps he didn't want to make too much noise out of it. I remember years ago the IT guys were changing PC's for a VIP in my former job and they left all his files exposed in a public shared folder. I saw that and mentioned it to the owner (I thought he put them there by himself) and he just told me in a very calmed manner that that was perfectly ok. Seconds later he ran to the IT depertment to ask them to remove all the files inmediately, this time in not a very calmed manner, as I was told later :-)
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  #54  
Old 02.12.2012, 10:54
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

i have a lot of technicians in my office and they are actually afraid of using computers. Sometimes I work with them on simple things like showing how to rotate document on adobe etc. we take it for granted that everyone knows how to use the basic functions with ease but it might not be so simple for others. the decent thing to do is to tell the owner that a very personal document is on a shared drive. prank or not atleast he would know.
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  #55  
Old 02.12.2012, 11:38
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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BREAKING NEWS !

Document owner just wrote me:

"Thanks for the message. Have a good weekend"

Obviously not to worried.
Untill he finds this thread... serious note: I also told some work stories on here, so you better make sure that no colleague ever knows your nickname here. Better don't give too many hints in it either... like giving away your nationality in the nick

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The Swiss colleague who printed out the document also wrote me as a response to me advising him to destroy the document.

"Swiss law differs in 2 kind of properties where in English the wording is most probably the same and do not differ in such a way (Besitz und Eigentum in German) Eigentümer is the guy who actually owns the “thing” and the Besitzer is defined by all the people having this “thing”, means there could be several Besitzer but only one Eigentümer. The Besitzer can be obliged by the Eigentümer to give the “thing” back. Property is protected in most constitutions as a fundamental right, but the content not determined.

As a Besitzer you are not allowed to use and give away the “thing” but as far as I know, there is no law telling me to return the “thing” unless I’m asked to do so by the Eigentümer."

I think he is wrong !
He is completely wrong and his argument is frankly speaking nothing short of idiotic. It reminds me of all the people on facebook who think that by throwing up some legal terms they can magically change some fundamentals. There is not legal basis for "finders keepers" (outside of international waters...): if you find something you do not own - you do not have the right to keep it. And yes, the owner can ask it back from you. Simple and kind of common sense outside of Kindergardens.

P.S: Your colleague is clearly a douchebag, so I think it is about time you straighten him out: The Swiss law does not define two types of property at all. Eigentum is ownership, Besitz is simply the fact that you have something in your posession and technically can use it. So a thief is also "Besitzer" but that does not mean he has any rights at all about the thing he stole. And yes, the owner might ask a thief to give his stuff back and he has all the rights to do so.

Tell him in short: "Du bist der Besitzer, aber Besitz ist juristisch kein subjektives Recht. Arschloch."
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  #56  
Old 02.12.2012, 13:01
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

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Untill he finds this thread... serious note: I also told some work stories on here, so you better make sure that no colleague ever knows your nickname here. Better don't give too many hints in it either... like giving away your nationality in the nick
Nothing in my posts is giving anyone away. Among the very few people on EF who knows me in personal there is only one colleague and he has no way of knowing who "document owner" and/or "douche bag" are as there is a lot of both categories at my work
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  #57  
Old 02.12.2012, 22:04
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Re: Moral dilemma - what would you do?

You did the right thing.

Sometimes you'll meet people as you did, who are just utterly dispicable.
Remaining kind is not a weakness.
Say your mind, and then walk away.

Anybody who can laugh and despise somebody else's misfortune, mistake or feelings and purposefully hurt them is not worth even being mentioned.
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