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  #61  
Old 16.01.2008, 09:45
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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Why didn't I go to the police? Well I reckon you can all draw your own conclusions there. Plus as I run a play group to teach 3-5 year olds English in this very community I wasn't too keen to tell anyone in authority about my own drunken behavior.
Drunk or not you did not deserve to be assaulted - and by your own account you were trying to defuse a situation. You should have reported it to the police. I would like to think the Swiss take unprovoked assaults on members of their community seriously.

Cheers,
Nick
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  #62  
Old 17.01.2008, 14:39
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

My partner and I had an experience 2 years ago in Bern when we were attacked by group of 10 teenagers. It started out harmlessly enough - we had just left a concert / party as the place was closing down. One of the kids tried to get in through the door and my partner told him the place was shut. The kid then started kicking the door. Again, my partner told him, the place is shut and he really doesn't need to act like "a child". To make things absolutely clear, he didn't grab the kid, yell at him or do anything besides talk to him. The kid didn't say anything to us and just walked off. Thinking nothing of it, we walked off to look for a taxi. Fat chance. Within minutes of leaving the immediate area of the venue, the same kid shows up with 10 of his friends and starts yelling at us, what the h*ll do we mean by calling him a child and that he's going to show us what happens to people who insult him. His friends started taking punches at my partner, who in his shock, at first didn't do anything. Needless to say, we had both had some drinks but still you don't expect to be attacked by a bunch of kids, not older than 16 and some of them younger. The whole thing escalated so fast, my partner was pushed to the ground. Until then they had only verbally gone at me, I was trying to calm the whole thing down, in vain. As soon as my partner was on the ground, they started kicking him. I threw myself bodily over his head and neck to prevent any further damage at which they happily carried on kicking me in the neck and back. With luck, a friend of ours was nearby and he literally leapt into the mess and hit one of the kids so hard his teeth flew. That stopped the whole thing pretty quickly and the rest of them scarpered. My partner had bruised face and my neck and back were rather blue. The police didn't do anything.
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  #63  
Old 17.01.2008, 14:44
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Kids like that need to be fed to the lions
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  #64  
Old 17.01.2008, 20:33
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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PS: I shave my head due to hair loss, and have done a fair amount of weights... am I a skin head?
Do you stand around on the Niederdorf in a big gang, making the nazi salute, wearing a Union Jack patch on your sleeve (something which I find thoroughly offensive - not the flag: the fact that these ****s feel they have the right to wear it) and pulling faces at dark-skinned or foreign passers-by? Or, for that matter, do you go around kicking the crap out of women?

I think most of us can tell the difference between a slap head and a skin head. During summer months I can be included in the former group. If I were to stomp around in gear that is designed to intimidate people, then I think people would be quite within their rights to consider me to be a threat or a nuisance. If it looks like a fascist, walks like a fascist and quacks like a fascist, then it probably is a fascist. I certainly don't buy this tedious argument that we can't know someone's politics by their clothes: The fact is that in the real world skinhead clobber is associated with violence, right-wing extremism and hooliganism. If a socialist or a peace-campaigner or a bunny-rabbit breeder chooses to dress in such a way regardless of this fact, then he is in no position to whinge that people are making assumptions. I'd rather be considered a bigot by some big-booted fashion victim than risk having my head kicked in like the OP.




As for the other comments that indifference is 'the way of the world', I would beg to differ. I'm sure a lot of big cities are like that, but my experiences in Greece and Britain are very different to a couple of recent experiences in Zurich. Indeed, when I was attacked in Greece, half the street came out to help me, and I was invited to stay at the house of one of my rescuers. And he didn't know me from Adam!

Having said that, I don't know if it's a Swiss thing or a Zurich thing to ignore a person in peril or pain. I suspect it's the latter. Where I live, down the lake, I suspect people would take an interest in someone who was having problems in the street.

Or, at least, I'd hope they would!
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  #65  
Old 18.01.2008, 10:43
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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Do you stand around on the Niederdorf in a big gang, making the nazi salute, wearing a Union Jack patch on your sleeve (something which I find thoroughly offensive - not the flag: the fact that these ****s feel they have the right to wear it) and pulling faces at dark-skinned or foreign passers-by? Or, for that matter, do you go around kicking the crap out of women?

I think most of us can tell the difference between a slap head and a skin head. During summer months I can be included in the former group. If I were to stomp around in gear that is designed to intimidate people, then I think people would be quite within their rights to consider me to be a threat or a nuisance. If it looks like a fascist, walks like a fascist and quacks like a fascist, then it probably is a fascist. I certainly don't buy this tedious argument that we can't know someone's politics by their clothes: The fact is that in the real world skinhead clobber is associated with violence, right-wing extremism and hooliganism. If a socialist or a peace-campaigner or a bunny-rabbit breeder chooses to dress in such a way regardless of this fact, then he is in no position to whinge that people are making assumptions. I'd rather be considered a bigot by some big-booted fashion victim than risk having my head kicked in like the OP.
Okay so perhaps if I had put after my comment you may not have considered my comment so confrontational. For the record, no I do not "go around kicking the crap out of women". I was merely indicating that its dangerous to categorise people. I find it offensive to categorise Swiss as "uncaring" and the term "skin head" is derogatory - depending on who you are. This is something which I might find offensive...

While I appreciate that your experience in Greece may be one of caring and kindness, my experience in other parts of the world isnt... each to his own I think - I havent been to Greece but then you may not have been to the middle of Johannesburg and been mugged or beaten. I believe that the world is alot less caring in general and to live in Zurich with rose coloured glasses on is naieve and perhaps needs adressing. This was my point... nothing more, so please dont read into something which doesnt exist.
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  #66  
Old 18.01.2008, 11:03
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Categorising people is necessary for survival.

If I'm walking down the street and I see a gang of skinheads, or a gang of lads dressed like NY rappers, I cross the road.

I don't give a bollocks whether they are nice to their mums, attend a Quaker chapel, or actively campaign for the freedom of Tibet. They are dressed in a manner associated with violence, and, as such, they will be avoided by me.

Everything we wear tells people something about us. If you go to a job interview in t-shirt and jeans, it doesn't matter if you're the best qualified, most intelligent person they've met: You aint going to get that job. If you dress in a manner which is associated with violence and hooliganism, then people will draw their own conclusions. We don't have time, when walking down a city street at two in the morning, to engage these fellows in conversation to find out whether they've rung their grandma this week.

So I will continue to judge people by their clothes, so long as people, for the sake of fashion, continue to wear clothes with negative, violent and offensive associations.

If I'm a bigot, then so be it. At least I'm a safe bigot.



As for your comparison of J'Burg and Zurich - I'm not sure it is a fair comparison. A big, violent, socially messed up city in a country experiencing massive change, vs a rich, clean, safe little town in Central Europe. I'm not surprised no one came to your aid in J'Burg. They wouldn't in London, Sao Paolo or Mexico City, either, I shouldn't imagine. But in most places in the world people are slightly less scary and do tend to run to your aid. Except in Zurich, of course, which is full of be-suited, bad mannered tossers who are way too important to help someone who has banged their knees up or is getting their head kicked in.

Thank God Brummies, Athenians, and rural Swiss people aren't the same.
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  #67  
Old 19.01.2008, 00:56
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Although I said I wouldn't comment on this thread anymore I'd like to explain something. I've never been attacked or physically abused since I left school so although I used the term "I've just had me head kicked in" I was actually reverting to the vernacular term I associated with being beaten up. Or fighting from the days that I did.

Yes I was knocked to the ground, yes I was kicked but it wasn't just concentrated on my head. I don't know why I find it important to explain this but I feel as we are English speakers from all over the world and I usually try not to speak in dialect, this was one of the times I did.
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  #68  
Old 19.01.2008, 00:59
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

We understood. And we still sympathise.

They are still a bunch of nasty, vicious *******s, whatever the semantics.

And you have my sympathy and support, regardless of what bizarre excuses might be presented for the behaviour of these ****s.

Best Wishes, anyway.

Last edited by Dougal's Breakfast; 12.01.2010 at 22:58.
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  #69  
Old 21.01.2008, 08:27
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

I do also agree. While I may have come across as a little "matter of fact" of the issue, I think that this type of thing is truly sad and I feel disollusioned with people. There is no action which deserves this. The fact that no one stood up for you I feel is indicative of our society (perhaps the societies which I have been exposed to).

Dougal... ... even though I seemed ok with this I am not. I do have a big part of me which was hoping that Zurich was a little above the rest and there was a place where we looked after one another.
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  #70  
Old 28.01.2008, 01:36
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Lets face it, if you are taking a walk in Zug after 9pm then you're probably the only one on the streets.. haven't you heard about the curfew - If it happened here there would be nobody about to step in and help...

Referring though to the despicable incident that befell Oldhand, I cannot understand how anyone could stand by and watch that, let alone the simple-minded thug/s who did this.

Maybe we should get a few of us together, go back with you and you can point them out for us. We can then tar and feather the b*stards and teach them some manners. We wont hurt them, just maybe hit them softly till they bleed.
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  #71  
Old 28.01.2008, 02:00
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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Okay so perhaps if I had put after my comment you may not have considered my comment so confrontational. For the record, no I do not "go around kicking the crap out of women". I was merely indicating that its dangerous to categorise people. I find it offensive to categorise Swiss as "uncaring" and the term "skin head" is derogatory - depending on who you are. This is something which I might find offensive...

While I appreciate that your experience in Greece may be one of caring and kindness, my experience in other parts of the world isnt... each to his own I think - I havent been to Greece but then you may not have been to the middle of Johannesburg and been mugged or beaten. I believe that the world is alot less caring in general and to live in Zurich with rose coloured glasses on is naieve and perhaps needs adressing. This was my point... nothing more, so please dont read into something which doesnt exist.
Curious George - having come from JHB and having lived in Prague and Budapest and now the thriving metropolis of Zug, I have some issue with what you have said here. Being a bit naive and wearing rose-tinted glasses is not the issue. The issue is most people are law-abiding and pay loads of tax. It is our right to expect that the protection services protect us from these thugs. Just because there are people who don't give a damn and do as they please, what it tell sm is there is something wrong with the way our legal systems deal with this 'spineless b*stards'. They do it because they get away with it.

Up North from Johannesburg in the Limpopo Province when it used to be called the Northern Province (I think the exact area was somewhere between Bushbuck Ridge in Mpumalanga and Potgietersrus if it's still called that), it was well know that there were bands of vigilantes who took the law into their own hands simply because if they called the police, either the police did nothing or released the criminals immediately. I am not by any means advocating vigilantism as was practised there, simply making the point that people have a right to expect to be able to walk freely and without fear anywhere they want. Police should protect us - after-all that is why we pay taxes.

I know that it is not so simple but it should be. Reform the laws. People who infringe other peoples rights should loose any rights automatically and should not be protected by truckloads of lawyers looking for a quick buck. That will stop it.
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  #72  
Old 28.01.2008, 09:18
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

All I am trying to say is the following:

1. I try not to categorise people and the term "skinhead" I asked be used with caution as it runs the risk of doing just that...
2. I am a cynic, and while I do not believe that this is right (being beaten up, regardless of gender, whether you are in a group / single etc), I also do not expect people to help... this is my experience.
3. My quote was simply to state my exception to Dougals comment -that's all

gvnmllr... perhaps you ARE being naieve?? Simply because exactly what you have said... perhaps this should be a wake up call.

Just because there are lots of "law abiding citizens, who pay loads of tax" doesnt mean that humanity exists in this society or any other. The mere fact that this happened and seems to have happened in the past is a fact that it exists.

This is not right, but it doesnt mean that it doesnt happen. How can you take exception to the fact that I believe that I am stating the obvious?

You have to be cautious wherever you go, be it in Johannesburg, Zurich, New York or Lagos.

So called civilized society exists ONLY EXISTS IN POCKETS NOWADAYS.

Switzerland has become more and more part of the global environment and is subject to all the influences - good and bad. Its sad but true... People are coming in from all areas of Europe and other. This has brought with it a whole host of problems and benefits. The Swiss deal with it in many ways. They are not perfect, and perhaps this aspect of them is particularly UNPLEASANT... but their country is perfect in many other areas...

I wasnt saying that what happened to Oldand was nice, or should have happened. I understand why this wasnt reported but you cannot state that "the laws should be reformed" when it wasnt actually reported. The law in this instance wasnt given the opportunity to deal with the issue...

In South Africa right now we have cases where South Africans are beating up Zimbabweans.... unfair comparisson maybe... then let me refer... in the UK we have cases where "white christians" are beating up Muslims... ok.... unair comparisson... in Germany we have had cases where "white neo nazis" are beating up "black Germans / emigrants"... the list goes on....

The world is becoming more unpleasant. I do believe that Switzerland is better than all the rest. Just because your experience in other countries has been good, why jump on the bandwagon in Switzerland, PARTICULARLY since you havent been beaten up in Switzerland.

Switzerland works, but is not immune nor is it perfect...
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  #73  
Old 26.03.2008, 14:24
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Hi Oldhand
Sorry to hear about ur incident and hope ur feeling better -not sure to post my question here as doesnt really seem appropriate... its about the playgroup ur running and whether u could give more info as I've a 3.5 yr boy (jamie) aso I'd be interested to know where, when etc. You can pm me,
cheers and all the best,
L

[quote=Oldhand;153701]
Plus as I run a play group to teach 3-5 year olds English in this very community I wasn't too keen to tell anyone in authority about my own drunken behavior.

I
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  #74  
Old 26.03.2008, 15:34
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Hi Killy, yep your right it isn't the best place. Not to worry I've sent you a PM
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  #75  
Old 26.03.2008, 17:08
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

Just saw this what happened to you, all my sympathies to you.

I was attacked in Pur-Pur (a bar in Zurich) two years ago by my ex-partner. And like you, noone came to help stop the bashing. Although, once it was over and I was a bloody, crumpled, mess on the floor some women did drag me into the toilets till the police arrived.

Thinking back on it, I still can't believe noone helped.

Anyway, I understand, because "How could it have happened in Switzerland?".
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  #76  
Old 26.03.2008, 17:08
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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With luck, a friend of ours was nearby and he literally leapt into the mess and hit one of the kids so hard his teeth flew. That stopped the whole thing pretty quickly and the rest of them scarpered. My partner had bruised face and my neck and back were rather blue. The police didn't do anything.

Interesting you mention this, I have had my fair share of incidents in and around Zürich. Initially very intimidated until i realised that here the pack mentality prevails only to a certain degree. Basically show weakness or fear and they're all over you but kick one of their teeth in and no one else is in for anything more.

Its unfortunate that from time to time this has to happen and as an "auslander" one needs to hightail it immediately but such an approach has gotten my partner and i out of potentially dangerous situations a number of times. Of course i rue the day i am faced with more adventurous thugs willing to use a weapon but statistically i find the probability of that happening here quite a long shot.
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Old 26.03.2008, 19:20
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

A friend of mine, an Indian was attacked in Aarau by 8 Nazi teenagers.
He was walking to the Bahnhof and suddenly this entourage darted out of a side ally. They punched him in the eye. Knocked him to the floor and kicked him in the face repeatedly. Some of them had sticks and pounded on him with that too.

It was reported to the police. Three of the miscreants were caught. Two under 18, they pretended to apologise to get off with a lighter sentence. My friend was promised a court case. Almost one year later, still no case in court. But he now has diminished vision in his one eye, and a crack in his skull.

After reading this thread, I've realised that it's not just darker skin people that are being attacked. You just have to be a little different and BOOM! Not even women are spared.

If anything I think the Swiss government needs to take these attacks more seriously. Have a boot camp for this sort of violent kids, instead of making this place ausländer-unfriendly with their referendums.
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  #78  
Old 29.03.2008, 20:23
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

And anyway, women need a slap now and again otherwise they start getting ideas above their station. Innit.
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  #79  
Old 29.03.2008, 22:07
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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And anyway, women need a slap now and again otherwise they start getting ideas above their station. Innit.
No, it isn't. You might want to put a smiley there or we'll think you're being serious. One never knows.
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  #80  
Old 29.03.2008, 22:25
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Re: Just had me head kicked in

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And anyway, women need a slap now and again otherwise they start getting ideas above their station. Innit.

What a STUPID thing to say - You are not being funny and maybe one day if you have the misfortune to have " Your head kicked in" you will remember being such an idiot and making crass remarks
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