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  #221  
Old 21.06.2013, 15:42
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

You should also be aware of this:

Tax consequences of presence in the United States after expatriation.
If, for any tax year during the 10-year period in which you are otherwise subject to section 877, you are present in the United States for more than 30 days in a calendar year ending in such tax year, you will be treated as a U.S. citizen or resident for that tax year. You will be subject to U.S. tax on your worldwide income unless the following exception applies.

Exception.


You can be present in the United States for up to 60 days without being treated as a U.S. citizen or resident if you are performing personal services in the United States for an employer who is not related (within the meaning of sections 267 and 707) to you and you meet either of the following requirements.
  • You were a U.S. citizen and, within a reasonable period following your expatriation, you became a citizen or resident fully liable to tax in the country in which you, your spouse, or either of your parents was born; or
  • For each year in the 10-year period ending on the date of expatriation, you were physically present in the United States for 30 days or less.
See Pub. 519, U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens, for details about what constitutes a day of presence in the United States.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ar01.html

Shit, I didn't know about the 30 day rule. Did any of you? Have to keep that in mind if I ever go on holiday there again. Or is this only applicable to covered expats?
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  #222  
Old 21.06.2013, 15:55
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Looking for some extra input on this one. We watched the SRF news last night and they had a report on a vote in Bern. Something about adopting FATCA? OH didn't explain it very well because he didn't see the whole piece.

Basically he said it's the first non-Swiss law that will be effective here, and that the way the vote was done, if the U.S. makes changes to the law in the future, those changes automatically take effect here, regardless of Swiss law. Anyone have a better sense of what really happened and what it means??
Well, FATCA disregards Swiss and all other countries' laws anyway so that's nothing new.

If it was about the voting that's been going on this week, the bill was rejected. Basically it was a bill put forward by the US on a "take it or leave it" basis which would have allowed the Swiss government to temporarily suspend Swiss bank secrecy laws for a year. That would then have allowed the banks to pass info on to the US in FATCA style without being taken to court over the matter. As it's been defeated the US will probably now go after the banks through the US courts.
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  #223  
Old 21.06.2013, 16:30
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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...
Shit, I didn't know about the 30 day rule. Did any of you? Have to keep that in mind if I ever go on holiday there again. Or is this only applicable to covered expats?
Didn't know about it either. From the Pub. 519, 2012 version:

"Substantial Presence Test

You will be considered a U.S. resident for tax purposes if you meet the substantial presence test for calendar year 2012. To meet this test, you must be physically present in the United States on at least:

1. 31 days during 2012, and
2. 183 days during the 3-year period that in-cludes 2012, 2011, and 2010, counting:
a. All the days you were present in 2012, and
b. 13 of the days you were present in 2011, and
c. 16 of the days you were present in 2010.

Example. You were physically present in the United States on 120 days in each of the years 2010, 2011, and 2012. To determine if you meet the substantial presence test for 2012, count the full 120 days of presence in 2012, 40 days in 2011 (13 of 120), and 20 days in 2010 (16 of 120). Because the total for the 3-year period is 180 days, you are not considered a resident under the substantial presence test for 2012."

So I think you're safe if it's just normal, short holidays?
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  #224  
Old 21.06.2013, 16:46
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Yeah, but if we go it's usually for around 4 weeks. Last time in 2007 I think it was slightly over that possibly. Allows us time to get over the jetlag and actually enjoy the trip. Still, not likely to be doing it again any time soon.
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  #225  
Old 21.06.2013, 17:33
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Depends if you have shares in the banks affected...
I haven't owned 'shares' in anything based on fiat currency for years.

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...you have to be IRS reporting compliant for a number of years before sending the Form 8854 with your CLN...
I found nothing in either the 8854 instructions or the Form itself requiring a copy of the CLN to accompany the 8854. Did I overlook something?
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  #226  
Old 21.06.2013, 19:53
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I found nothing in either the 8854 instructions or the Form itself requiring a copy of the CLN to accompany the 8854. Did I overlook something?
Those that I have spoken with have all sent their CLN with the Form 8854 to ensure a clean cut Whether it is required or not....
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  #227  
Old 24.06.2013, 15:37
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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BTW, I have it from a fairly good source, that there will soon be a report on SRF TV regarding US persons, their bank accounts in Switzerland and the effects. Not yet sure which show or the date. Maybe next week I can offer more details... will let you know here.
My source says it is planned for the 4th of July, 10vor10 show.
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  #228  
Old 24.06.2013, 15:54
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Those that I have spoken with have all sent their CLN with the Form 8854 to ensure a clean cut Whether it is required or not....
I just followed the instructions.

Haven't heard anything in response yet, but if/when I do, I'll try to remember to follow up here — especially if my "cut" turns out to be less than "clean"...
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  #229  
Old 26.06.2013, 11:01
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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You should also be aware of this:

Tax consequences of presence in the United States after expatriation.
If, for any tax year during the 10-year period in which you are otherwise subject to section 877, you are present in the United States for more than 30 days in a calendar year ending in such tax year, you will be treated as a U.S. citizen or resident for that tax year. You will be subject to U.S. tax on your worldwide income unless the following exception applies.

Exception.


You can be present in the United States for up to 60 days without being treated as a U.S. citizen or resident if you are performing personal services in the United States for an employer who is not related (within the meaning of sections 267 and 707) to you and you meet either of the following requirements.
  • You were a U.S. citizen and, within a reasonable period following your expatriation, you became a citizen or resident fully liable to tax in the country in which you, your spouse, or either of your parents was born; or
  • For each year in the 10-year period ending on the date of expatriation, you were physically present in the United States for 30 days or less.
See Pub. 519, U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens, for details about what constitutes a day of presence in the United States.

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ar01.html

Shit, I didn't know about the 30 day rule. Did any of you? Have to keep that in mind if I ever go on holiday there again. Or is this only applicable to covered expats?
Based on my reading of the 8854 instructions, the 30 day rule applies to those who expatriate under section 877, i.e., "covered expats". It should not apply to those who are not covered expats.
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  #230  
Old 26.06.2013, 11:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Based on my reading of the 8854 instructions, the 30 day rule applies to those who expatriate under section 877, i.e., "covered expats". It should not apply to those who are not covered expats.
Whew, that's a relief! Thanks.
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  #231  
Old 01.07.2013, 08:14
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Just in time for American Independence Day, an article in today's Handelszeitung called "National Origin as a Hurdle". It concerns the difficulties that the US has caused its chattel property (AKA citizens) living and working in Switzerland:

English translation:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...nft-als-huerde

German:
http://www.handelszeitung.ch/politik...nft-als-huerde
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  #232  
Old 01.07.2013, 08:38
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Love the mis-translation of obtaining US citizenship instead of getting rid of it.
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  #233  
Old 01.07.2013, 08:41
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Love the mis-translation of obtaining US citizenship instead of getting rid of it.
Noticed that too with the Microsoft translator. Below is same article translated by Google, which might be slightly better:

http://translate.google.com/translat...nft-als-huerde
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  #234  
Old 03.07.2013, 09:33
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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My source says it is planned for the 4th of July, 10vor10 show.
Confirmed.
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  #235  
Old 05.07.2013, 09:50
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Loss of freedom for US citzens in CH

In case it hasn't been posted anywhere already, yesterday there was a good concise report on the Swiss news programm 10 vor 10 in German:
(scroll down to US pass)

http://www.srf.ch/sendungen/10vor10/...om-bye-bye-usa

Think this report helps the general public to understand the enormous hassles faced by overseas Americans.
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  #236  
Old 05.07.2013, 10:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Also another post over on IBS that may be of interest. This one on Mr. Posey's opposition to the US inflicting the same sort of damage on itself as it has on the rest of the world's financial institutions:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/07/...-celebrations/

Well, what a surprise! The US is quite happy demanding that the rest of the world pay millions to become it's tax collectors, but won't do the same for anyone else.
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  #237  
Old 05.07.2013, 10:13
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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...BTW, I have it from a fairly good source, that there will soon be a report on SRF TV regarding US persons, their bank accounts in Switzerland and the effects...
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My source says it is planned for the 4th of July, 10vor10 show.
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Confirmed.
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...In case it hasn't been posted anywhere already, yesterday there was a good concise report on the Swiss news programm 10 vor 10 in German...
Well, JC had posted the report would happen, but it looks like you're first with the link. Thanks for that, as I had missed it.
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  #238  
Old 05.07.2013, 13:22
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Loss of freedom for US citzens in CH

In case it hasn't been posted anywhere already, yesterday there was a good concise report on the Swiss news programm 10 vor 10 in German:
(scroll down to US pass)

http://www.srf.ch/sendungen/10vor10/...om-bye-bye-usa

Think this report helps the general public to understand the enormous hassles faced by overseas Americans.
Here is a direct link to the SRF "10 vor 10" segment "US-Pass? Nein Danke!" from last night:

http://www.srf.ch/player/tv/10vor10/...9-01eb3e025bfe
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  #239  
Old 05.07.2013, 14:27
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

It's not just the foreigners evading tax:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_ne...j&cid=36365860
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  #240  
Old 06.07.2013, 19:39
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

If you are looking for non-US citizenship then CNN has published a list of countries that sell their citizenship here.
Not sure why CNN picked these countries out of the many who do this.
BTW the best established "sell a citizenship" is the USA with their EB-5 program
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