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Old 01.07.2014, 20:14
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Maybe the Republicans are finally seeing sense. Picked this up fron IBS:

https://www.facebook.com/republicans...556919?fref=nf

Sixteen RNC members, including six members of the 9-member RNC Resolution Committee joined Solomon Yue, Vice Chairman and CEO of Republicans Overseas to propose the following RNC resolution in order to end double taxation and FATCA for 7.6 million overseas Americans.
Resolution Supporting “Residence Based Taxation”
WHEREAS, Residence-Based Taxation, (RBT), is a fair, equitable, and efficient taxation of American Citizens living overseas because it taxes their worldwide income only once in the country where they actually reside and receive government services;
WHEREAS, RBT would not only align U.S. law with the other industrialized countries, but also eliminate complex requirements and tax forms, such as the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR); and, it would significantly reduce IRS administrative expenses;
WHEREAS, The United States is the only industrialized country in the world that taxes foreign-source income of its citizens living overseas by Citizenship-Based Taxation (CBT), resulting in double taxation; all other industrialized countries only tax foreign-source income of their citizens residing in their home country (Residence-Based Taxation or RBT);
WHEREAS, The complexity of a U.S. tax return for an American living overseas and the significant additional penalties applicable to
Americans living overseas requires these U.S. Citizens to hire expensive tax preparers; the cost of this double-taxation along with the costs of preparation and compliance put American job seekers at a competitive disadvantage to other non-American workers, thus costing American jobs;
WHEREAS, The higher cost to hire American workers resulting from CBT causes multinational corporations, even those headquartered in America, to hire fewer Americans, to have less of a connection to America and purchase fewer American goods and services, thus decreasing American exports;
WHEREAS, The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), implemented as a result of CBT, has caused banks, both U.S. and foreign, to deny access to banking and other financial services to the 7.6 million Americans overseas, thus denying employment and investment opportunities and forcing them to choose between U.S. citizenship and their livelihood;
WHEREAS, The implementation of FATCA to enforce CBT promotes the abandonment of the U.S. Dollar as the global reserve currency and hurts the U.S. economy; and
WHEREAS, History reveals that replacing Citizenship-Based Taxation with Residence-Based Taxation will raise net Federal tax revenue because of increased economic growth, therefore be it
RESOLVED, The Republican National Committee urges Congress to repeal Citizenship-Based Taxation and its supporting legislation such as FATCA and FBAR;
RESOLVED, The Republican National Committee urges Congress to permit restoration of citizenship for those who were compelled to renounce their citizenship because of the crushing burdens of FATCA and FBAR; and
RESOLVED, The Republican National Committee urges Congress to align U.S. law with the laws of other industrialized countries of the world by limiting taxation to Residence Based Taxation on American Citizens living overseas which will encourage increased employment of Americans and increased export of American goods and services.
Chief Sponsor – Solomon Yue, Jr., Republican National Committeeman for Oregon (Vice Chairman and CEO of Republicans Overseas)
1st Co-Sponsor – Carolyn McLarty, Republican National Committeewoman for Oklahoma (Chairman of the RNC Resolution Committee and Member of Republicans Overseas Board of Governors)
2nd Co-Sponsor – Jeff Kent, Republican National Committeeman for Washington (Vice Chairman of the RNC and Member of Republicans Overseas Worldwide Advisory Committee)
3rd Co-Sponsor – Demetra DeMonte, Republican National Committeewoman for Illinois (Secretary of the RNC and Chairman of Republicans Overseas Legal Action Fund Committee)
4th Co-Sponsor – Helen Van Etten, Republican National Committeewoman for Kansas (Member of the RNC Executive Committee and Secretary of Republicans Overseas)
5th Co-Sponsor – Melody Potter, Republican National Committeewoman for West Virginia (Member of the RNC Resolution Committee)
6th Co-Sponsor – Bruce Ash, Republican National Committeeman for Arizona (Chairman of the RNC Standing Rules Committee and Chairman of Republicans Overseas)
7th Co-Sponsor – Roger Villere, Jr., State Chairman of Louisiana (Vice Chairman of the RNC)
8th Co-Sponsor – Rosie Tripp, Republican National Committeewoman for New Mexico (Member of the RNC Executive Committee and Republicans Overseas Board of Governors)
9th Co-Sponsor – Pat Longo, Republican National Committeewoman for Connecticut (Member of the RNC Resolution Committee)
10th Co-Sponsor – Raul Reynolds, Republican National Committeeman for Alabama (Member of the RNC Resolution Committee)
11th Co-Sponsor – Debbie Joslin, Republican National Committeewoman for Alaska (Member of the RNC Resolution Committee)
12th Co-Sponsor – Steve Scheffler, Republican National Committeeman for Iowa (Member of the RNC Resolution Committee)
13th Co-Sponsor – Donna Cain, Republican National Committeewoman for Oregon
14th Co-Sponsor – Linda Herren, Republican National Committeewoman for Georgia (Member of the RNC Budget Committee)
15th Co-Sponsor – Cindy Costa, Republican National Committeewoman for South Carolina (Member of the RNC Executive Committee)
16th Co-Sponsor – Susie Hudson, Republican National Committeewoman for Vermont (Member of the RNC Executive Committee and Republicans Overseas Legal Action Fund Committee)

The question is of course - will they implement RBT if they get elected?
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  #342  
Old 04.07.2014, 11:17
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

If you want to follow this there's a blog over on IBS with continuing comments. Number of signees is now up to 20.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/07/...ased-taxation/

Also Nigel Green of deVere is backing the repeal campaign.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/07/...he-us-economy/

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 04.07.2014 at 11:20. Reason: Added extra info
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  #343  
Old 09.07.2014, 21:22
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

The Wall Street Journal has an Opinion article on Fatca and the tax compliance joys of Americans living abroad. An excerpt:

"American Expats' Tax Nightmare Fatca rules were intended to correct a tax loophole. Applied to Americans living abroad, they are absurd.

The vast majority of U.S. expatriates living abroad harbor a strong sense of patriotism that includes a willingness shoulder their fair share of the nation's tax burden. Deep resentment arises, however, when they confront the byzantine complexity of preparing a tax return that includes non-U.S. income and non-U.S. financial accounts. Fatca demands rigorous compliance with arcane rules that the IRS has until now never even attempted to enforced on a widespread basis. For Americans abroad, desperately trying to comply, the outcome to family finances is often disastrous.

In one case, a California school teacher lost her Swiss husband of 30 years to cancer. In the ensuing family trauma, she failed to file a foreign asset disclosure form to report her husband's Swiss pension. Despite having paid all of her U.S. taxes on time, she is advised by a California law firm to enter the IRS's Off-Shore Voluntary Disclosure Program. She paid the firm a retainer fee of $124,000 to begin the OVD process and was told to expect penalties of up to $800,000. "

http://online.wsj.com/articles/kuenzi-american-expats-tax-nightmare-1404924705 (paywall)

It seems the US government should issue a warning to would-be emigrants that it is legal to emigrate but, practically speaking, US tax laws do not allow it.
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  #344  
Old 13.07.2014, 16:32
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

I am wondering about the filing obligations after having renounced the US passport.


Lets say I renounce beginning of 2015 and have complied with all previous tax filing and FBAR's up to tax year 2013. Than I would Need to file the tax and FBAR for the year 2014 in 2015.


In 2016 I need to file the tax forms for 2015 plus the 8854, up to the date just before the visit to the embassy. Is this assumption correct?


Do I need to file the FBAR's for 2015 in 2016 also? Or does this depend on the date of the renunciation at the embassy in 2015?


Does anybody know how Long the normal wait time for the interview at the embassy is?
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  #345  
Old 13.07.2014, 16:58
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I am wondering about the filing obligations after having renounced the US passport.


Lets say I renounce beginning of 2015 and have complied with all previous tax filing and FBAR's up to tax year 2013. Than I would Need to file the tax and FBAR for the year 2014 in 2015.


In 2016 I need to file the tax forms for 2015 plus the 8854, up to the date just before the visit to the embassy. Is this assumption correct?


Do I need to file the FBAR's for 2015 in 2016 also? Or does this depend on the date of the renunciation at the embassy in 2015?


Does anybody know how Long the normal wait time for the interview at the embassy is?
In all cases you only file up to the date of your renunciation for tax, 8854 and FBAR's. I renounced in March 2013 and did a partial FBAR for Jan to my March date only in 2014.

Last heard, about a year for the appointment so unless the flow has slowed down I'd get your request in as soon as you can.
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  #346  
Old 13.07.2014, 17:22
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Does anybody know how Long the normal wait time for the interview at the embassy is?
I've heard that if the waiting list is too long in Bern you can try for an appointment in an embassy in another city. I heard of a Swiss who did this in Budapest for example.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 13.07.2014 at 18:24. Reason: fixed quoting
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  #347  
Old 13.07.2014, 17:31
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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...Last heard, about a year for the appointment so unless the flow has slowed down I'd get your request in as soon as you can.
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I've heard that if the waiting list is too long in Bern you can try for an appointment in an embassy in another city. I heard of a Swiss who did this in Budapest for example.
I went to the US consulate in Frankfurt. The wait there was only a few months in 2012.
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Old 14.07.2014, 18:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Thanks to all for your fast answers.
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  #349  
Old 24.07.2014, 07:16
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

It's not only in Switzerland where US citizens are headed to the embassy to renounce their citizenship. A lead story in today's Vancouver Sun describes a similar situation in Canada:

"Metro Vancouver woman joins movement to drop U.S. citizenship

U.S. tax law intended to nab billionaires who hide money in tax shelters is terrorizing middle-class dual citizens with no income south of the border

Like many people in Canada who still have American citizenship, Pat is both scared and angry.

The semi-retired suburban Vancouver woman is trying to relinquish her U.S. citizenship because she feels unfairly snagged in an unprecedented American campaign to catch tax cheaters living outside the United States.

Beginning this month, Canada’s largest banks are being required by Ottawa to hand over to tax authorities the financial information of every client with American citizenship.

About a million people in Canada hold an American passport, and many are racing to figure out their options in response to Canada’s February decision to cooperate with the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, best know as FATCA."

http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/...687/story.html

I suppose it should be comforting to know that the Obama terror campaign against Americans abroad is global and not just directed at Americans in Switzerland.
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  #350  
Old 24.07.2014, 08:18
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Yes, and the Isaac Brock Society has seen a big increase in the number of people viewing its site over the last few months as the unsuspectng victims finally realise that FATCA is here and they need to decide what they're going to do about it.

The only thing that's different in Switzerland is the fact the banks have been taken to court by the US and there are such high penalties likely to be incurred if they don't do what they're told so are more inclined to freeze/block accounts. Otherwise, yes people around the world are and have been giving up their US citizenship for some years now. Iirc IBS reckons there are 5/6 relinquishments for every renunciation so with last year's figure of 2,999 reported renunciations you get figures of between 14,995 and 17,994 for the relinquishments. Then you have the people who give up their Green Cards to add to that too.
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Old 25.07.2014, 15:00
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Yes, and the Isaac Brock Society has seen a big increase in the number of people viewing its site over the last few months as the unsuspectng victims finally realise that FATCA is here and they need to decide what they're going to do about it.

The only thing that's different in Switzerland is the fact the banks have been taken to court by the US and there are such high penalties likely to be incurred if they don't do what they're told so are more inclined to freeze/block accounts. Otherwise, yes people around the world are and have been giving up their US citizenship for some years now. Iirc IBS reckons there are 5/6 relinquishments for every renunciation so with last year's figure of 2,999 reported renunciations you get figures of between 14,995 and 17,994 for the relinquishments. Then you have the people who give up their Green Cards to add to that too.

Swiss Banks currently are so afraid to do anything wrong with the IRS, that they do not accept any US citizens (also dual nationals with a Swiss passport) anymore as a new customer and are "willing" to keep long year customers only. And only if they agree to sign all papers and comply with the US taxes, otherwise they get kicked out also.


If they accept to keep you, they will not accept any investments anymore, that might have something conflicting with the US. So you are forced to sell all of those kind of investments, the bank will only accept clear non-US stock to be kept. So that forced selling will also increase your taxes for the US.
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  #352  
Old 25.07.2014, 16:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

I know this question was answered in this thread somewhere but I cannot seem to find it out of 350 posts. Does anyone know how long after the renunciation does the CLN arrive by post?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 25.07.2014, 16:41
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I know this question was answered in this thread somewhere but I cannot seem to find it out of 350 posts. Does anyone know how long after the renunciation does the CLN arrive by post?

Thanks in advance.
There's no set time period. Back in 2013 I got mine in about 6 weeks. But I also got an appointment to renounce in about 6 weeks and now I think the waiting time for an appointment is up to a year at Bern. Plus the State Department's global database crashed this week and that could affect the issuance of CLN's as well as passports, visas, etc.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/glitc...isa-operations

The fastest delivery I've ever heard of was one month from renouncing, but there are also many reports of people still waiting a year or more later.
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  #354  
Old 25.07.2014, 17:42
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I know this question was answered in this thread somewhere but I cannot seem to find it out of 350 posts. Does anyone know how long after the renunciation does the CLN arrive by post?

Thanks in advance.
Prior to receipt of the CLN, there may be several other ways to evidence that US citizenship has been renounced or relinquished:

1) US Embassy Cancellation of US Passport: In addition to punching holes in it, the US Embassy may stamp your US passport as invalid for reason of expatriation. For an example of a cancelled US passport due to expatriation, please see this link:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-conte...passport-2.jpg

2) US Embassy Official Letter: It has been reported on Isaac Brock Society that some embassies and consulates will issue an official letter confirming the expatriation. Please see this link for an example:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-conte...suriLetter.jpg

3) US Federal Register Expatriation List: The Federal Register, the official gazette of the US federal government, publishes a quarterly list with names of those who have expatriated (although it is notoriously incomplete for unknown reasons). Your name on this list evidences that you have expatriated. The next quarterly list should be available in two to three weeks and should be available at this link:

https://www.federalregister.gov/quar...-to-expatriate

4) Receipt for Renunciation Payment: If you renounced rather than relinquished, you would have paid a US$450 renunciation fee. This is also evidence that you renounced.

For further information, you may wish to read this Isaac Brock Society blog entry:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/10/...m-august-2013/
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Old 25.07.2014, 19:01
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Number 1 isn't really a lot of use before the CLN is issued MennoFloyd as they only send the passport back when the CLN is posted to you.
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Old 25.07.2014, 20:14
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Back in 2013 I got mine in about 6 weeks.
Mine was closer to a month in 2012.

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Number 1 isn't really a lot of use before the CLN is issued MennoFloyd as they only send the passport back when the CLN is posted to you.
Number 3 isn't much use either, I'm afraid — I don't know of a single ex-American whose listing in the Federal Register preceded the arrival of their CLN. My own listing was published at least three quarters after the fact.
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Old 25.07.2014, 21:15
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Mine was closer to a month in 2012.


Number 3 isn't much use either, I'm afraid — I don't know of a single ex-American whose listing in the Federal Register preceded the arrival of their CLN. My own listing was published at least three quarters after the fact.
I renounced in March, got the CLN in mid-April and appeared on the Register in June. Again, names appearing on the Register seem to be as wonky as how soon/long it takes to get your CLN. Still, at least the CLN is accurate - which is more than you can say for the Register.
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Old 25.07.2014, 23:35
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Thanks for the replies!

I've been waiting for 4 months now so was just curious about others.

The wait continues...!
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Old 26.07.2014, 21:53
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Thanks for the replies!

I've been waiting for 4 months now so was just curious about others.

The wait continues...!
Isaac Brock Society was tracking reported renunciations and relinquishments, including the period of time to receive a CLN. It appears that it stopped this exercise in July 2013 but it still might be useful:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-conte...IATION.m28.pdf
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Old 27.07.2014, 09:15
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Isaac Brock Society was tracking reported renunciations and relinquishments, including the period of time to receive a CLN. It appears that it stopped this exercise in July 2013 but it still might be useful:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-conte...IATION.m28.pdf
Ah, I didn't even know about that MennoFloyd, but I can tell you it's been incorporated into the Consular Report Directory Part 2.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-conte...14.07.04.j.pdf

This may also be more useful as it has peoples' accounts of their renunciations/relinquishments - how they found the process overall, what the consular staff were like when dealing with them, etc, for each individual embassy/consulate. The reports from Switzerland start on page 169 and the summary that you posted starts on page 173.
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