Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #461  
Old 15.07.2015, 14:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,461
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,626 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post

I can't support a platform and a party I loathe so I have what, less annoying paperwork?
But for some (many), it goes much beyond 'less annoying paperwork'
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #462  
Old 15.07.2015, 14:38
Principia Discordia's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Züri Unterland
Posts: 1,229
Groaned at 85 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 2,502 Times in 801 Posts
Principia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
But for some (many), it goes much beyond 'less annoying paperwork'
Ok, how far does it go for others, for example? And how far does it have to go for someone to give up their principles for purely selfish reasons, regardless if those principles are liberal or conservative?

As far as I can tell, I'm just as affected as anyone else. I have a mortgage, multiple bank accounts that need reporting, taxes to file here and there for multiple family members and I've gotten denied for various financial services I would have liked to make use of.

Sure, some have to pay more, but they're also making more so I'd say it evens out.

Quote:
View Post
Which party would that be?

Tom
Just a bit of reading will clear that right up for you, Tom.
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 15.07.2015, 14:55
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Give up principles for purely selfish reasons? What principles do you mean and what selfish reasons? For me it was that I didn't see any reason why the US should expect me to file tax returns and possibly pay them tax when I haven't lived in the country for over 40 years. I have no intention of ever returning to the States, except for the very occasional holiday perhaps, so why should I be expected to continue to contribute to "services" that I'll never use? That's my principle. If you think that's selfish that's your problem.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #464  
Old 15.07.2015, 14:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,601
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,405 Times in 18,123 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Actually, Rand Paul is the only presidential hopeful from either party that I like.

Unfortunately, I can no longer vote in US elections.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 15.07.2015, 15:07
Principia Discordia's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Züri Unterland
Posts: 1,229
Groaned at 85 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 2,502 Times in 801 Posts
Principia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Sorry, I thought it was clear, but maybe there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not ready to do it myself, but
I don't think giving up citizenship is selfish in the least, I'm referring to people who would switch party affiliation based upon this one issue.

That is to say, if you believe in reproductive freedom for women, gay marriage, gun control, universal healthcare and making it easier, not harder, for minorities to vote, but you vote R because they might try to repeal FATCA, or implement residency based taxation, then I think that's pretty selfish.
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 15.07.2015, 15:35
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,601
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,405 Times in 18,123 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
I'm referring to people who would switch party affiliation based upon this one issue.
Ah, like the time I voted for Clinton because I didn't support the Republican stance on abortion?

Silly me.

Personally, I just don't get the whole party affiliation thing, mainly because there is little real difference between them, and they both suck.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #467  
Old 15.07.2015, 15:49
Principia Discordia's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Züri Unterland
Posts: 1,229
Groaned at 85 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 2,502 Times in 801 Posts
Principia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
Ah, like the time I voted for Clinton because I didn't support the Republican stance on abortion?

Silly me.

Personally, I just don't get the whole party affiliation thing, mainly because there is little real difference between them, and they both suck.

Tom
I agree, they both suck and don't make much a difference in the life of a middle class white male like me. But there's a pretty huge difference if you're gay, black, female, muslim, or poor.
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 15.07.2015, 16:03
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

True St2lemans. But the whole thing focussing mainly on the Presidential candidates is stupid to my mind anyway. Unlike the UK where the Prime Minister will be the leader of whichever party wins the election the US system sometimes leads to a President from one party while Congress is made up of a majority of the other party. So even if Rand won the Presidency he could end up fighting a Democratic Congress who aren't interested in getting rid of FATCA.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #469  
Old 15.07.2015, 16:30
Principia Discordia's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Züri Unterland
Posts: 1,229
Groaned at 85 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 2,502 Times in 801 Posts
Principia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond reputePrincipia Discordia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
True St2lemans. But the whole thing focussing mainly on the Presidential candidates is stupid to my mind anyway. Unlike the UK where the Prime Minister will be the leader of whichever party wins the election the US system sometimes leads to a President from one party while Congress is made up of a majority of the other party. So even if Rand won the Presidency he could end up fighting a Democratic Congress who aren't interested in getting rid of FATCA.
The chances are miniscule that the next president will have a democratic congress. And if you look at the past few weeks in particular, a president can directly and indirectly spearhead great change despite great opposition, that's why there's so much focus on the presidency.
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 15.07.2015, 16:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

And, even if the president and congress are the same party, it can be the case that nothing gets done. It's happened.

As long as i remain a US citizen, i will vote. So while the Democrats and Republicans are similar, there are marginal differences, with the Dems being slightly less clown car looney tunes than the Reps. As much as I'd like to see FATCA repealed, i could not vote for a presidential candidate on that basis alone if i also think the rest of the candidate's policies are crap.

Personally, i rather like Sanders.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #471  
Old 15.07.2015, 16:48
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

But how much more could have been accomplished if they were all reading from the same page.

While I understand the need for checks and balances, sometimes they simply get in the way.
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 16.07.2015, 09:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,461
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,626 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
Ok, how far does it go for others, for example?
Well, if I cannot get a bank account, cannot get a mortgage, cannot invest for my future, then it goes much beyond paperwork for me. And the ever increasing costs of renouncing are a significant issue. Not to mention the high probability to bankrupt my hard earned retirement.

Quote:
View Post
I'm referring to people who would switch party affiliation based upon this one issue.

That is to say, if you believe in reproductive freedom for women, gay marriage, gun control, universal healthcare and making it easier, not harder, for minorities to vote, but you vote R because they might try to repeal FATCA, or implement residency based taxation, then I think that's pretty selfish.
Well I could really not give a flip about any of those issues you mention, they are all US domestic issues that do not have one impact on my life here....on the other hand FATCA is in my face here constantly...and I am reminded of being a second class citizen by banks nearly every week.

I certainly would support anyone doing something on FATCA as it is the only issue that impacts me. I do not vote, but I would be behind Rand in a second as he is the only one doing something, irrespective of any party affiliation. Party lines and what they stand for change over time as well, so I do not see any reason to be affiliated with a party or what is supposedly stands for.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #473  
Old 16.07.2015, 12:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 377
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 152 Times in 96 Posts
nanners has made some interesting contributions
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

"I certainly would support anyone doing something on FATCA as it is the only issue that impacts me. I do not vote, but I would be behind Rand in a second as he is the only one doing something, irrespective of any party affiliation. Party lines and what they stand for change over time as well, so I do not see any reason to be affiliated with a party or what is supposedly stands for.
"

Due to FATCA I am considering making an "issue" vote as opposed to party line this year, which means Rand is on my radar screen. And trust me, I am not a huge fan of the Republican party (I do care about many of the issues listed in a few threads above, which they oppose, so this is not an easy decision for me.)

Interestingly, I emailed Democrats Abroad last month asking for Hillary Clinton's official view on FATCA (I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth). Never received a response, which was disappointing.

I plan to apply for Swiss citizenship in about a year, but the closer I get to that date the more sentimental I get about giving up my US citizenship. If I had a choice, I would not. However this issue is forcing my hand and it's going to be pretty expensive for me between now and retirement to keep my blue passport.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank nanners for this useful post:
  #474  
Old 16.07.2015, 19:51
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Back to the relinquishment/renunciation issues, major and minor changes have been made to the foreign affairs manual for consular staff dealing with these.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/07/...on-procedures/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #475  
Old 17.07.2015, 09:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,461
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,068 Times in 1,626 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

And for anyone wanting to give their opinions or voice their frustration, I came across this survey by the American Citizens Abroad Global Foundation, being conducted by the University of Nevada. They seem to hit all the issues in the survey, so the more the word gets out and spread the better in my opinion.

Found on ACA homepage, link to survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ACA_FATCA
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #476  
Old 27.07.2015, 12:45
fduvall's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,596
Groaned at 56 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,695 Times in 774 Posts
fduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

For those interested, I received this today:
--------
FATCA Task Force <fatca@democratsabroad.org>
9:51 AM (2 hours ago)

to me


Dear Democrats Abroad,

We are at a pivotal milestone in our efforts to reform FATCA but we need our grassroots activists like you to ACT NOW.

Help us write 1000 letters to Congress by Friday to support the FATCA reform “sign on” letter!

As we reported earlier this month, Americans Abroad Caucus Co-Chairs Representative Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) and Mick Mulvaney (R-SC) are circulating a “sign on” letter on Capitol Hill pressuring Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew and IRS Commissioner John Koskinen to implement the FATCA Same Country Safe Harbor for Americans abroad.

The letter should have hit the desk of your member of Congress. Maybe they’ve seen it, maybe not – but the letter will be closed for new signatures soon. Signatures of support from members of Congress are needed now! Send a message to your elected representatives RIGHT NOW, reminding them about the letter and asking them to sign it.

It’s easy.

1) Click here and enter your U.S. voting address to compose a message to your elected representatives

2) Either copy and paste the suggested message below or write your own polite and succinct message urging your member of Congress to sign the letter in support of the Same Country Safe Harbor that Representative Maloney and Representative Mulvaney are circulating.

3) Let us know who you have contacted by filling out this very very short questionnaire HERE so that we can amplify your voice and continue to put pressure on Congress.

Thank you for participating in this important initiative in support of our work to fix FATCA. If you’d like to further support FATCA reform efforts, please make a contribution by clicking here.



Democrats Abroad FBAR/FATCA Task Force



###

SUGGESTED MESSAGE ENCOURAGING ELECTED OFFICIALS TO SIGN THE AMERICANS ABROAD CAUCUS LETTER TO TREASURY AND THE IRS IN SUPPORT OF THE FATCA SAME COUNTRY SAFE HARBOR FOR AMERICANS ABROAD

SUBJECT: Congressional Sign On Letter supporting the FATCA Safe Harbor for Americans Abroad

I live in [country of residence] and I vote in [state] District [number if known].

Americans living outside of the United States like me are bearing the unintended, but serious consequences of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). The law was, of course, intended to discourage and apprehend US citizens hiding untaxed earnings in foreign financial accounts. The reporting requirements FATCA imposes us and our banks were never intended to impact ordinary, middle class, law-abiding Americans abroad. However, due to FATCA our financial accounts are being closed, our relationships with our non-American spouses are under strain, some of us are being denied roles, promotions or partnership in business and some are planning or contemplating renouncing their US citizenship. Some have already done so.

We need help urgently.

The Democratic and Republican leaders of the Americans Abroad Caucus, Representative Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) and Representative Mick Mulvaney (R-SC), have drafted a letter to the Treasury and IRS in support of a reform to the FATCA implementation rules which would resolve the problems that FATCA causes for 90 percent of Americans abroad: the FATCA Same Country Safe Harbor for Americans abroad.

Representative Maloney and Representative Mulvaney are circulating the letter on Capitol Hill. I strongly urge you to join your Congressional colleagues in signing on to this letter in support of the Same Country Safe Harbor. There are 8.7 million Americans living outside the US. We vote, we file tax returns and we are calling on you to help us by fixing this law that has so badly impacted our financial and personal lives.

Please sign the Congressional letter to Secretary Lew and Commissioner Koskinen in support of the FATCA Same Country Safe Harbor for Americans abroad. Please contact Natalee Binkholder (Natalee.binkholder@mail.house.gov ) in Rep Mulvaney’s office or Max Whitcomb (Max.Whitcomb@mail.house.gov) in Rep Maloney’s office with any questions and to deliver your support.

Thank you for your help and thank you for serving.

Regards,

Name

City, Country

###

This message is paid for by the Democratic Party Committee Abroad
Democrats Abroad

PO Box 15130
Washington, DC 20003
United States
Telephone: +1-202-621-2085 +1-202-621-2085
It is being sent to you because you are a member of one or more of these Democrats Abroad group(s): DA International and DA International.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fduvall for this useful post:
  #477  
Old 27.07.2015, 14:13
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,601
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,405 Times in 18,123 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
enter your U.S. voting address
And if one has no US voting address?

Quote:
View Post
I live in [country of residence] and I vote in [state] District [number if known]
And if one has never lived in the US nor voted in the US?

Alas, I do have one daughter living and voting in the US, but only in Swiss votations.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 27.07.2015, 14:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

If you've never lived in the US, not sure what to do. For us, we use our last US address as we have no current US address.
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 27.07.2015, 18:17
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,143
Groaned at 87 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,853 Times in 8,394 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Quote:
View Post
And if one has no US voting address?

And if one has never lived in the US nor voted in the US?

Alas, I do have one daughter living and voting in the US, but only in Swiss votations.
Tom, your daughter that is living in the U.S. can register and vote there since she is a citizen. If/when she leaves the States, she continues to vote using that address.

For U.S. citizens born abroad that have never lived in the U.S. it's often the case that you vote using your parents' last known address. For clarification based on state rules though, best to contact the Federal Voting Assistance Program.

Quote:
... For us, we use our last US address as we have no current US address.
And this is exactly what you should do.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #480  
Old 18.08.2015, 19:48
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,148
Groaned at 409 Times in 317 Posts
Thanked 17,128 Times in 9,634 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

The ADCS (Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty) with help from Isaac Brock Society and Maple Sandbox have raised the $500,000 needed to challenge the Canadian government's acceptance and implementation of FATCA in Canada.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/...re/#more-39061
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
citizenship, cln, fatca, irs, passport, relinquish, renounce, renunciation, tax




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reaching the point of giving up desperate Employment 156 26.02.2012 15:37
How does one become a Member of a (Social) Group? archmemory Forum support 13 09.12.2011 16:46
Californians in CH - proper way of giving up residency in CA? zufimufi Finance/banking/taxation 10 25.03.2010 05:45
EU to ruin beef because of the French cyrus International affairs/politics 0 17.04.2008 10:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0