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Old 07.02.2016, 15:48
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Gee, they've finally admitted it have they? About time.
I'm not so sure. I think the Treasury and Uncle Sam believe people are giving up the passport in order to dodge taxes. They've missed the point entirely that it's not the taxes that are so bad, it's the nightmare of navigating the bureaucracy and the fear of losing everything you have over a simple mistake.
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  #502  
Old 09.02.2016, 15:47
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Even the Beeb has finally picked up on the problem.

http://www.bbc.com/news/35383435

Not only slow, but didn't get the right November for the fee going up for renunciations.
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Old 10.02.2016, 15:43
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Nothing new, but a Canadian article on the problem.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle28688026/
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  #504  
Old 11.02.2016, 23:28
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

The US embassy is holding another round of town hall meetings. Next meeting is on the 23rd of February in Basel. More details can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/726062127527965/
http://blog.democrats.ch/2016/02/ame...3-in-bern.html

This is an excellent opportunity to discuss US policy with the Ambassador
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Old 21.02.2016, 11:26
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Thanks Swisspinoy.
It is interesting that the "America Day" in Basel/Reinach is processing applications for Consular Reports of Birth Abroad. Swiss government statistics show that American citizen mothers in Switzerland often report the citizenship of their newborns as other than American to the Swiss government. Can't imagine that they would then report their newborns to the US Embassy as American citizens:

Swiss statistics on US nationality of mother who gave birth, number of births:
2014: 396
2013: 337
2012: 358

Swiss statistics on US nationality of baby reported to Swiss government:
2014: 159
2013: 161
2012: 166

Details at “Live births by sex and birth order of the children and by nationality and marital status of the mother and by age class of the parents” at this link (2015 not yet available):

https://www.pxweb.bfs.admin.ch/defau...px_language=en

Wall Street Journal has an article called "When American Expats Don’t Want Their Kids to Have U.S. Citizenship", written by someone who lived in Switzerland:

http://blogs.wsj.com/expat/2015/02/1...s-citizenship/
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Old 21.02.2016, 11:58
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Reading that blog I found this interesting paragraph:

"Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship can be costly: the current fee is $2,350 and must be paid to the Department of State’s Consular Services. However, between the ages of 18 and 181/2, individuals can renounce U.S. citizenship at no cost (if they also have not been U.S. residents for 10 taxable years before relinquishment) because they are not yet considered “covered expatriates.”"

Has anyone heard of this rule/reg? Could be very useful for people with kids in that age range who want to give up their US citizenship.

Last edited by Medea Fleecestealer; 21.02.2016 at 13:54.
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  #507  
Old 21.02.2016, 13:27
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Readning that blog I found this interesting paragraph:

"Formally renouncing U.S. citizenship can be costly: the current fee is $2,350 and must be paid to the Department of State’s Consular Services. However, between the ages of 18 and 181/2, individuals can renounce U.S. citizenship at no cost (if they also have not been U.S. residents for 10 taxable years before relinquishment) because they are not yet considered “covered expatriates.”"

Has anyone heard of this rule/reg? Could be very useful for people with kids in that age range who want to give up their US citizenship.
That quote comes from here and was made before the fees were hiked:

http://blogs.wsj.com/expat/2015/02/1...s-citizenship/

The US embassy in Switzerland has since stated that the $2350 renunciation/relinquishment fee applies to any kid and that kids are first allowed to renounce when they reach the age of 16.
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Old 21.02.2016, 20:58
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Bernie Sanders just called for a switch to RBT in a townhall meeting to Americans living abroad. Marco Rubio did the same a few weeks ago. This is the first time that candidates on both sides have done so in the past 150 years of taxation without representation. If the race will be Bernie vs. Rubio, then it could become very interesting.

In any case, I highly recommend for everyone to attend the upcoming Swiss town hall meetings to ask these questions, including those who renounced.
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  #509  
Old 21.02.2016, 21:03
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Bernie Sanders just called for a switch to RBT in a townhall meeting to Americans living abroad. Marco Rubio did the same a few weeks ago. This is the first time that candidates on both sides have done so in the past 150 years of taxation without representation. If the race will be Bernie vs. Rubio, then it could become very interesting.

In any case, I highly recommend for everyone to attend the upcoming Swiss town hall meetings to ask these questions, including those who renounced.
Republican Party said ages ago they only see this as a vote winner issue, nothing more. Now the Democrats have seen the same. Ask your questions by all means, but don't expect anything to change whoever gets elected.
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Old 21.02.2016, 22:43
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Republican Party said ages ago they only see this as a vote winner issue, nothing more. Now the Democrats have seen the same. Ask your questions by all means, but don't expect anything to change whoever gets elected.

Like you, I'm not a US citizen, so it technically doesn't matter. Yet, it can be fun to stand up and speak out for what is right, even when the probability of accomplishing change is very low. It never hurts to say what one thinks.
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  #511  
Old 22.02.2016, 16:19
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Thanks Swisspinoy.
It is interesting that the "America Day" in Basel/Reinach is processing applications for Consular Reports of Birth Abroad. Swiss government statistics show that American citizen mothers in Switzerland often report the citizenship of their newborns as other than American to the Swiss government.
Infants whose birth was not registered with a U.S. consul may include those with parent(s) aware that:
1) There is a (rebuttable) presumption of alienage in the case of persons born outside the USA
2) The Foreign Affairs Manual instructs U.S. consular officers to grant visas (and implicitly the U.S. Customs and Immigration Service to admit) persons who, despite showing "badges" of possible U.S. citizenship are unable or unwilling to submit proof.
https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM020201.html
https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam0080.html
3) Many children born abroad to American citizens are not, themselves, citizens: http://www.afsa.org/citizenship-and-...tune-geography (The U.S. and the U.K are two countries whose citizens may give birth abroad, under certain facts, to children who are stateless.)
4) Other reasons for not granting U.S. citizenship to children of American citizens born outside the USA include: medically-assisted conception (DNA proof may be required, and often is asked of mothers over 40; the issue was acute some time ago among American women living in Israel), adoption and surrogacy.
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Old 22.02.2016, 22:19
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Infants whose birth was not registered with a U.S. consul may include those with parent(s) aware that:
1) There is a (rebuttable) presumption of alienage in the case of persons born outside the USA
2) The Foreign Affairs Manual instructs U.S. consular officers to grant visas (and implicitly the U.S. Customs and Immigration Service to admit) persons who, despite showing "badges" of possible U.S. citizenship are unable or unwilling to submit proof.
https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM020201.html
https://fam.state.gov/fam/07fam/07fam0080.html
3) Many children born abroad to American citizens are not, themselves, citizens: http://www.afsa.org/citizenship-and-...tune-geography (The U.S. and the U.K are two countries whose citizens may give birth abroad, under certain facts, to children who are stateless.)
4) Other reasons for not granting U.S. citizenship to children of American citizens born outside the USA include: medically-assisted conception (DNA proof may be required, and often is asked of mothers over 40; the issue was acute some time ago among American women living in Israel), adoption and surrogacy.


Interesting points. Thanks for sharing. The main problem outside of America is that children with U.S. citizenship are discriminated against with many local financial services and are denied the ability of discarding such discrimination until the age of 16. If they are mentally disabled, then they will never be able to free themselves from such discrimination for as long as they live beyond U.S. borders. As such, it is preferable to allow the child to choose if they want to become U.S. citizens at the age of 18.
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Old 29.02.2016, 10:50
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

There's a story in Thursday's Le Monde about Chris Dalton, a 26 year-old American shot by terrorists in Paris on November 13. He complains of dealing with the bureaucracy as he recovers from his wounds and then FATCA struck:

"The provision of the compensation fund for victims of terrorism, assumed to cover such costs, did not arrive until later. "We had a RIB (Relevé d'Identité Bancaire) says Chris, and French bank branches would not open an account for me because of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, which complicates their life. "He eventually found an arrangement with a US bank. "

https://translate.google.de/translat....99&edit-text=
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Old 23.04.2016, 08:18
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

«FATCA is a U.S. law that forces every financial institution in the world to give the IRS information about its American clients. It's the reason why a vast majority of banks, brokerages, and other financial institutions outside of the U.S. shun American clients. Americans become radioactive liabilities that are best to be avoided. The law amounts to de facto capital controls. FATCA’s real purpose is not to collect money. It’s to pave the way for a global version of the law, informally known as GATCA.»

Erecting A Global Financial Prison
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Old 23.04.2016, 10:07
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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«FATCA is a U.S. law that forces every financial institution in the world to give the IRS information about its American clients. It's the reason why a vast majority of banks, brokerages, and other financial institutions outside of the U.S. shun American clients. Americans become radioactive liabilities that are best to be avoided. The law amounts to de facto capital controls. FATCA’s real purpose is not to collect money. It’s to pave the way for a global version of the law, informally known as GATCA.»

Erecting A Global Financial Prison
The government is seeking input on how it can best further harm the innocent living in Switzerland with GATCA:

«Spontaneous exchange of information: consultation initiated on revision of Tax Administrative Assistance Ordinance»
https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/do...-id-61431.html
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Old 23.04.2016, 13:46
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Which the US itself won't subscribe too of course.
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Old 12.08.2016, 13:05
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Okay, I can see I'm going to get pissed off in future. Just had a letter from PostFinance to say I need to sign another W-8BEN form as the other one only lasts for 3 years. This is something I assume they can easily exempt as there's been no change in my status and having also signed the form for UBS months before the PostFinance one was done I haven't heard anything from them about doing it again.

So despite no longer being an American it's still going to follow me around for the rest of my banking life.
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Old 12.08.2016, 14:51
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Okay, I can see I'm going to get pissed off in future. Just had a letter from PostFinance to say I need to sign another W-8BEN form as the other one only lasts for 3 years. This is something I assume they can easily exempt as there's been no change in my status and having also signed the form for UBS months before the PostFinance one was done I haven't heard anything from them about doing it again.

So despite no longer being an American it's still going to follow me around for the rest of my banking life.
Could it be that it was sent in error? They do make mistakes! That would piss me off too!
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Old 12.08.2016, 15:21
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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So despite no longer being an American it's still going to follow me around for the rest of my banking life.
With W-8BEN you confirm that you are the actual beneficiary of the US securities you hold. Sell them if that form bothers you.
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Old 12.08.2016, 15:33
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Could it be that it was sent in error? They do make mistakes! That would piss me off too!
No, it does say in the IRS blurb that they do need to be renewed every 3 years, but there are some circumstances where they're effectively indefinite. I would guess that UBS has opted for the "if you don't tell us you've changed your status we won't bother you" while PostFinance is covering their backsides and going with the renew every 3 years option.

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With W-8BEN you confirm that you are the actual beneficiary of the US securities you hold. Sell them if that form bothers you.
I do not hold and never have held any US securities. The only reason for having to sign a W8-BEN is the fact that I have an American birthplace as per the FATCA requirements.
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