Not that I've noticed, if anything I got through quicker, as I can speak English and my wife not.

Tom

Taken from here.
JC

That just says that it cannot be undone (i.e you cannot say "ooops, sorry, I've changed my mind), NOT that you cannot apply for citizenship like any other foreigner!

Tom

Renunciation & ESTA???

I have a general question. I know of a colleague who tried to get the US visa online with a Swiss passport but it was rejected because of the US birthplace. I think this person in the end went to get the US passport renewed. Also I know in general that dual citizens are only supposed to enter with a US passport.

Does anyone else have experience on whether a renunciant has any difficulty getting a US visa online in this ESTA system?

re: 1, merely a 'disclosure obligation?' could be understatement of the century (so far).
I'm reliably informed that eg, Raiffeisen, must carry out due diligence on 1m accounts to be reasonably confident of being in compliance.
any idea of the resources (ie, manpower) required?
and the way Fatca works, 'permanent establishments' must comply at operating country level, parent/head office certification isn't acceptable.
Take Allianz; one non-compliant entity, in any jurisdiction, means that the entire Allianz group becomes non-fatca compliant.
30% (or is it 35%) withholding tax then applies immediately to ALL remittances (of any kind - dividends, proceeds to client accounts, whatever) from the USA.
re: remittances, Pimco are part of Allianz; so 'go figure,' as they like to say.

certifcation by national Fatca entities in individual countries (bilateral agreements) is an option.
so far, an agreement has only been signed with the UK.
apparently an agreement in principle has been reached with CH.
Legislation to create das BAT (Bundesamt für Fatca) is being prepared for
presentation to parliament, and the inevitable referendum(s), as we speak.

Fatca is a short-sighted diktat that will one day bite the American fiscal authorities where it hurts.
It's unlikely that, in the long term, they'll be able to treat the international business & financial community
with the disdain shown their own expatriate citizens

re: 2, if it quacks it's (almost) certainly a duck. The holders are creditors.
China's motiviation for having its entities buy Treasuries isn't only (or even primarily) risk averseness.
There's the small matter of financing China's trade surplus with the USA.

Another:
Travel.State.Gov website... here.

I think having renounced/relinquished, you'd find it VERY difficult to apply for US citizenship again, let alone get your application accepted. The green card is different, but again may also be quite difficult to get.

Well, obviously your friend has. If you have an American birthplace, then I don't think you'd be able to apply via the ESTA system as it will automatically assume you do/should have a US passport. You'd probably have to do it either by post or with a visit to your nearest embassy/consulate.

I had no such problem last summer.

Tom

That's talking about a passport, which is clear as they are no longer US citizens.

It says nothing about not being allowed to apply for/obtain US citizenship.

Tom

My guess Tom, without opening another Google window and searching, is they mean passport = citizenship. You can not have one without the other. Their point is, once you give it up... it is gone.

If anyone is seriously considering and that is the only hang up... like PD, then I suggest contacting the US citizen services at the following:

BernRenunciations@state.gov

Source

Please let us know what they say.
JC

PS: This is the e-mail you send your request for paperwork and appointment to.

No, they are talking about passports, not citizenship:

"Moreover, a person in possession of a U.S. passport will be asked to submit that passport to the U.S. consular officer for cancellation. If the certificate of loss of nationality is approved by the U.S. Department of State, the individual's name will be entered in the Department's name check system and they will be ineligible for U.S. passports in the future."

Passport does not equal citizenship, a passport is document. Plenty of US citizens do not have US passports. Even plenty of Swiss citizens do not have Swiss passports.

Tom

Sadly, that's not true.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...ges/FATCA.aspx

This is true Tom. I will search again...

Isn`t the certificate of loss of nationality referred to basically saying once you have revoked your citizenship you can no longer get a passport?

That`s how I read it.

Seriously, given how touchy/irate some government people are getting over others giving up their citizenship, do you really think they are going to let you have it back? Besides, hopefully you've thought long and hard about this decision before taking the final step to renounce/relinquish. Why on earth would you want to try and get it back again?

Renunciation/relinquishment is irrevocable, unless you appeal your case. Once it's done, the passport issue is irrelevant. Only if your appeal succeeds (does anyone know if it's even been tried?) could you get a US passport again.

The CLN proves that you are not longer a US citizen.

Obviously, if you are no longer a US citizen, you are no longer eligible to have/receive a US passport.

Tom

This is a very interesting question. Part 10 (A), Question 1 of Form N-400 (Application for Naturalization) asks whether you have ever claimed to be a US citizen in writing or any other form. If yes, a detailed explanation is required. A yes answer to these questions is usually considered derogatory (questions in this same section ask if you ever failed to file US taxes, if you are a terrorist, if you have ever been confined to a mental institution, if you ever joined the communist party or if you were an NSDAP member between 1933-1945).

My guess is that if you renounce/relinquish, you would be at a disadvantage when applying unless you have a very compelling argument.

I think Tom mentioned he already gave his up... or was it someone else?

There was an appeal by a renounced US citizen that realized he had made a rash decision and wished to undo his renunciation:
PDF from www.law.fsu.edu here

Apparently, in 1980, there was a one year grace period in which to appeal. Times have changed... methinks, with the wave of renunciations, the State Department would have done away with this a long time ago

On the lighter side... Once renounced, you can take a number along with the millions of people that would give their right arm to have a green card let alone the naturalization/citizenship.

To put the icing on the cake...
This just in from US Citizen Services in Bern:
JC

1. Statistics...
That statement does not make any sense. Germany has "only" 80M people, so the exports per capita are much higher. blaming that on the smaller German market does not make any sense at all - the domestic market is of course in line with the population, nothing else. The actual reason is simple: The entire US economy is targeted at the domestic market and the third sector, services, is a multiple larger than in Germany. Germany on the other hand is a very export oriented economy. Simply put: Dodge builds cars for Americans, VW for the world.

2. Fatca
I have mentioned it before - I am working for a US company and I will avoid at all costs to get any statuory rights over our bank accounts. This would make me just as poisonous for banks as if I had a US passport since the IRS from then on would want to see all my data to make sure that the business is paying its taxes. A simple example, but this means that the new legislation does not just harm Americans abroad but a far wider circle. It affects business not only with the US but also with US companies and their employees regardless of nationality on a global scale.
How on earth could the US government be so daft? See point one: The government has it's focus where the economy is, the domestic market.