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  #101  
Old 22.02.2013, 12:58
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

I agree, if you want out it is a one way street for most and it should be considered as such. That is the way I am approaching it in my particular situation anyhow.

But what I wanted to point out was there are indeed a number of ways to undue it, some that have not been clearly stated on this thread, in case there is someone out there having second thoughts, etc..

And finally, if you look at all this in the big picuture-- the massive increase in renunciations, esp. in CH, for the last year or two, and what is really causing it. Ok, no one is really holding a gun to my head and walking me to the Embassy in Bern, but then again if the USG actions and policies were not making life all but nearly impossible to live here with normal rights and equal treatment, I would not be pursing renunciation/relinquisment either. I assume a lot of others doing the same for the same reason, and they certainly are not all E. Saverins. I've actually contemplated what I would say to the counselor officer when they ask if you are doing this under your own free will; responding with someting like yes but I wouldn't be doing this but for US policies making my life impossible here...but then it would probably jeopardise the renunciation...something I'm still comptemplating.
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  #102  
Old 22.02.2013, 13:17
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

That helps, now I can better relate - rather than a list of laws and exceptions to the rule. Which, BTW, are mostly outdated. A current such appeal (newer than 2010) is not found when searching (using layman search tools ).

You have to look out for number one. The USG surely doesn't give a rat's ass about you or the other US persons abroad. There are those in the US that put US persons abroad into a drawer as tax evaders and traitors - without seeing it from the other side. But, that is usual for the American folk and the American controlled media. Take care of yourself, do what you feel is best for you. If you start worrying about what other think... you will always have this little doubt in the back of your mind.

Your words are similar to Scott's in the articles at the head of this thread. Especially (I think) the latest. He is a veteran, went to a warzone for the US. Then decided to move on. Would like to have kept the US citizenship if the USG didn't make life so difficult for him and other US persons abroad.

Again, Runningdeer, I repeat myself... When you stand in front of the Consul, raise your right hand and admit to doing so under your own will and without influence from others... then the case is pretty clear.

Those that argue the case, I ad this: Whether 60, 35 or 18 1/2 years old, the person is still an adult, has their own mind and (like you said) there is not a gun pointed to their head. Thus, IMO, it should be binding - no way out

Hard case exceptions... Please tell me what a hard case would be. I can not imagine any situation deeming retraction from renunciation.

I am glad I got out of the US when I did. Thanks for reading
JC
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  #103  
Old 23.02.2013, 21:19
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Here's a case where someone renounced and then was denied a Nexus border crossing card.

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/02/...nial/#comments

Whether his renunciation was the reason for refusing him entry we may never know. But it does show there can be problems and it's not always smooth sailing entrywise to the US once you've renounced.
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  #104  
Old 24.03.2013, 01:14
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

A poster on IsaacBrockSociety.ca on March 21, 2013 said that the US Embassy in Bern told him "yesterday" that there were 35 to 40 appointments available for renunciations per week. Assuming 48 working weeks per year (factoring in about about 20 US and CH national holidays), this would mean that Bern has appointments available for 1'680 to 1'920 per year. That's around 8% to 9% of the estimated 20'000 CH-American dual citizens residing in Switzerland. A fairly substantial number.
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  #105  
Old 24.03.2013, 10:39
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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A poster on IsaacBrockSociety.ca on March 21, 2013 said that the US Embassy in Bern told him "yesterday" that there were 35 to 40 appointments available for renunciations per week. Assuming 48 working weeks per year (factoring in about about 20 US and CH national holidays), this would mean that Bern has appointments available for 1'680 to 1'920 per year. That's around 8% to 9% of the estimated 20'000 CH-American dual citizens residing in Switzerland. A fairly substantial number.
Yes, there was also a comment that at the end of November last year there was a backlog of 1,200 people waiting to renounce, by 20th March this had increased to 1,600. Bearing in mind that they could have cleared up to 560 of that initial backlog number from December to 20th March demand is outstripping supply. I think Bern are processing quite quickly; I rang up on the 28th January and got an appointment for the 4th March so unless it was a cancellation there doesn't seem to be long to wait for an appointment.
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  #106  
Old 11.04.2013, 18:41
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Well, it's done. I renounced on the 4th March and picked my CLN up from the embassy today. FBARs to file now and then sit back and wait to see if I owe anything.
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  #107  
Old 11.04.2013, 20:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Well, it's done. I renounced on the 4th March and picked my CLN up from the embassy today. FBARs to file now and then sit back and wait to see if I owe anything.
Congrats MF!
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  #108  
Old 11.04.2013, 20:56
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Thanks JC. The first thing I did when I got home (after making a cup of tea of course) was to copy the CLN and e-mail it off to the bank. They're now happy and are sending me a new disclosure form for my non-US status and then they can change their records.

I was very lucky because I renounced on the Monday and received the waiver forms the following Friday for signature and return by the end of March. Luckily when I explained that I'd just renounced that week they gave me until July for the CLN to arrive as they couldn't change my status without one. Whew!
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  #109  
Old 29.04.2013, 08:57
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

For those thinking of renouncing, the excellent info that was given on the now closed Renunciation Guide website is available to view here:

http://web.archive.org/web/201207260...tionguide.com/

It won't be updated, but still has a lot of useful info on the process, tax issues, etc.

Many thanks to www.isaacbrocksociety.ca for saving this.
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  #110  
Old 01.05.2013, 18:47
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

An RTS radio report on Saturday indicates that 900 US citizens and permanent residents returned their US passports and greencards at the US Embassy in Berne in 2012. Please see second to the final paragraph (in French):

http://www.rts.ch/la-1ere/programmes/quinze-minutes/
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  #111  
Old 16.05.2013, 23:59
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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WTF? Why make a mountain from a molehill?

You follow through the renunciation process over time, there is a grace period... it is not done overnight. No reason for distress or second thoughts. Do the deed or don't - it is your decision. Stand up to it.

Don't enter into a process if you have any doubts. As I seriously doubt the US will honor any pleas of doubt after the fact. Deal with it, the US is getting tougher... you want out? Sure thing, pay your money and you are out. Want back into the club? No way Jose
JC
I view it a bit differently. If the US doesn't feel honored with one being a citizen of that place, then there is no logical need or reason for one to be a US citizen. Wanting to become an unwanted citizen is like trying to get back together with an abusive spouse. It makes no sense. The US would have to change dramatically for it to desire the return of its lost treasures.
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  #112  
Old 17.05.2013, 00:17
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I view it a bit differently. If the US doesn't feel honored with one being a citizen of that place, then there is no logical need or reason for one to be a US citizen. Wanting to become an unwanted citizen is like trying to get back together with an abusive spouse. It makes no sense. The US would have to change dramatically for it to desire the return of its lost treasures.
I have a feeling you misunderstand my post.

I agree with your words, totally. Except the current wording from the US is: US strictly says there is no way a renounced ex-citizen can become a citizen again. Even if the rainbow ends in the US - the ex-citizens made their choice and have to live with it (reminder here about making your bed and sleeping in it ).
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  #113  
Old 17.05.2013, 00:35
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Thanks JC. The first thing I did when I got home (after making a cup of tea of course) was to copy the CLN and e-mail it off to the bank. They're now happy and are sending me a new disclosure form for my non-US status and then they can change their records.

I was very lucky because I renounced on the Monday and received the waiver forms the following Friday for signature and return by the end of March. Luckily when I explained that I'd just renounced that week they gave me until July for the CLN to arrive as they couldn't change my status without one. Whew!
Hi congrats. I take it you'll be updating your EF profile too?
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  #114  
Old 17.05.2013, 07:05
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I have a feeling you misunderstand my post.

I agree with your words, totally. Except the current wording from the US is: US strictly says there is no way a renounced ex-citizen can become a citizen again. Even if the rainbow ends in the US - the ex-citizens made their choice and have to live with it (reminder here about making your bed and sleeping in it ).
I wouldn't place much weight in that wording. It is known that at least one individual who became stateless had his US citizenship restored years later. Rules tend to change and it is only a matter of time for the US to acknowledge that its present behavior is seriously faulty. I'd expect some type of amnesty in the near future, but the current attitude among many stateside Americans, towards those with US heritage outside of US jurisdiction, is quite unpleasant.
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  #115  
Old 17.05.2013, 09:42
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I wouldn't place much weight in that wording. It is known that at least one individual who became stateless had his US citizenship restored years later. Rules tend to change and it is only a matter of time for the US to acknowledge that its present behavior is seriously faulty. I'd expect some type of amnesty in the near future, but the current attitude among many stateside Americans, towards those with US heritage outside of US jurisdiction, is quite unpleasant.
Of course the current mood of those stateside against those that go through the renunciation process is quite raw - this is obvious in the comments to the articles linked in the original postings of this thread. In my opinion, a person has to make the choice that fits their needs, short and long term.

Yes, one or two have had their renunciation reversed - but those were years ago, none of which of recent. Furthermore, with the increasingly high number of the last few years, the US will be much more strict on reversal. Basically to the point the US makes in clear - the renunciation is non reversible. Sourced earlier in this thread.

With this, I would not put money on reversal of the process. Where would an amnesty fit in the picture here? Please explain this.
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  #116  
Old 17.05.2013, 19:50
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Of course the current mood of those stateside against those that go through the renunciation process is quite raw - this is obvious in the comments to the articles linked in the original postings of this thread. In my opinion, a person has to make the choice that fits their needs, short and long term.

Yes, one or two have had their renunciation reversed - but those were years ago, none of which of recent. Furthermore, with the increasingly high number of the last few years, the US will be much more strict on reversal. Basically to the point the US makes in clear - the renunciation is non reversible. Sourced earlier in this thread.

With this, I would not put money on reversal of the process. Where would an amnesty fit in the picture here? Please explain this.
The situation years ago is much different from how it is today. How strict or not the US will be on renunciations or reversals depends upon how it views its role in the matter. If it recognizes that it caused the problem or played a large role in it, and if it is willing to admit so, then it may attempt to undo the damage done via policy changes such as amnesties. If, on the other hand, it fails to recognize the problem or refuses to admit so, then it will likely become more restrictive towards its citizens. With the later, those who renounced will feel more confident that their action was justified and more Americans may seek to liberate themselves from the growingly faulty system.

So far, most signs suggest that the US government will become more strict and faulty while more of its citizens continue to leave.
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  #117  
Old 17.05.2013, 20:30
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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The situation years ago is much different from how it is today. How strict or not the US will be on renunciations or reversals depends upon how it views its role in the matter. If it recognizes that it caused the problem or played a large role in it, and if it is willing to admit so, then it may attempt to undo the damage done via policy changes such as amnesties. If, on the other hand, it fails to recognize the problem or refuses to admit so, then it will likely become more restrictive towards its citizens. With the later, those who renounced will feel more confident that their action was justified and more Americans may seek to liberate themselves from the growingly faulty system.

So far, most signs suggest that the US government will become more strict and faulty while more of its citizens continue to leave.
Be for real
The US will never bow to their citizens. The proudness-factor is way to high. Never.

Good to know we are on the same sheet here. I have a feeling that more and more US citizens will find the way to the exit door. I applaud those that take the step and like Scott, proud to do so.
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  #118  
Old 17.05.2013, 20:57
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Hi congrats. I take it you'll be updating your EF profile too?
Ooops, forgot that I had me down as a dual in the first place. Thanks for the reminder magyir, I've changed it now. Will have to go and check my other favourite sites.

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Be for real
The US will never bow to their citizens. The proudness-factor is way to high. Never.

Good to know we are on the same sheet here. I have a feeling that more and more US citizens will find the way to the exit door. I applaud those that take the step and like Scott, proud to do so.
More likely not admit they wronged their own citizens. That would stick in their craw.
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  #119  
Old 17.05.2013, 21:27
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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So far, most signs suggest that the US government will become more strict and faulty while more of its citizens continue to leave.
in 2011, there were about 1,700 renunciations, something north of 650,000 persons choosing to naturalize in the US and a net migration ratio north of 4 per 1,000 persons. somehow I don't suspect the country is losing sleep about running out of paying customers.

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  #120  
Old 17.05.2013, 22:49
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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in 2011, there were about 1,700 renunciations, something north of 650,000 persons choosing to naturalize in the US and a net migration ratio north of 4 per 1,000 persons. somehow I don't suspect the country is losing sleep about running out of paying customers.

Possibly not, but the "official" figure is full of errors, omissions, and doubling up of names so how accurate it is, is anyone's guess. The FBI's list has a different number:

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/05/...iod-last-year/

While Fox News Latino puts the figure even higher:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...rotect-wealth/

The RTS article that DuePonte posted said that 900 people in Switzerland alone renounced or gave up their cards in 2012 which is over half of the "official" worldwide figure for 2011 and nearly the entire worldwide total for 2012 which was 932! So something's way wrong somewhere.

As DuePonte said, Bern is allegedly allocating between 1,680 and 1,920 slots a year for renunciations just here in Switzerland. If those figures are right what are the numbers like in the rest of the world?

One thing's for sure. As more and more US citizens and green card holders realise the implications of FATCA on their financial lives the numbers are likely to go up instead of down.
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