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  #161  
Old 29.05.2013, 14:24
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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On the other hand, the project doesn't allow the supply of customers' data and account information. Their transmission will be solely in the context of an administrative request to help via a convention in force against double taxations.
Realizing that's a rough translation from the article...does this mean now they won't send all my data to the IRS automatically? One of the huge hassles with all of this FATCA stuff has been the tendency of Swiss banks to lump all Americans into one boat, regardless of total assets or residency. If this in any way helps alleviate that tendency then it's a good thing!!
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  #162  
Old 29.05.2013, 14:33
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Realizing that's a rough translation from the article...does this mean now they won't send all my data to the IRS automatically? One of the huge hassles with all of this FATCA stuff has been the tendency of Swiss banks to lump all Americans into one boat, regardless of total assets or residency. If this in any way helps alleviate that tendency then it's a good thing!!
Here's the Swissinfo article in English:
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business...l?cid=35976562

And more detailed info from the NZZ in German:
http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/schweiz/bu...usa-1.18089445
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  #163  
Old 29.05.2013, 15:11
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

More here too, although this contradicts the Swissinfo which says names and account details won't be passed on. The Local says names will, but account info no.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130529/bern...ispute-with-us
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  #164  
Old 29.05.2013, 15:22
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Realizing that's a rough translation from the article...does this mean now they won't send all my data to the IRS automatically?
Unfortunately, this does not mean that. The agreement to send your customer data was made in February and is awaiting a parliamentary agreement. What the federal council today did was jump the gun and allowed the banks to I guess work together with the Treasury to identify employees who worked for the bank and helped Americans evade taxes. With this action, neither the current customers nor their data is allowed to be identified to the IRS...this is still planned though and needs approval.
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  #165  
Old 29.05.2013, 15:34
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

I think its quite clear who is holding the strings in the federal council. Eveline Widmer Schlumpf is just a parrot for the banks and it wouldnt surprise me if she has some kind of financial interest coming from the banks.

The banks (as usual) look really bad in this. They made huge amounts of money from workers who poached American whales to their bank, now they are selling out those employees to the IRS and acting like a model transparent bank. (Just so they can continue to participate in the US market) They are willing to pay billions of dollars in punitive IRS fees (in the similar type of manner that normal Americans can be assessed FBAR penalties) They however can recoup those fees quickly while a typical American is wiped out for life.
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  #166  
Old 29.05.2013, 15:37
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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It's not just expats. All Americans hate citizenship-based taxation, unconditionally, including those who do not yet realize such. There is not a single stateside American who would pay taxes on US-earned income to Iran simply because Iran declared them as being a citizen and introduced global taxation. America even has law enacted which prevent other nations from taxing US-earned income and America frequently condemns Eritrea for attempting to do so.

So, it would be true if one stated that any America who supports citizenship-based taxation is a hypocritical bigot, but some people have a hard time dealing with reality and tend to get offended for the wrong reasons.
you're missing a key point here - the US does not "declare" anybody to be a citizen, you have to affirmatively apply for citizenship or be born within the country's borders. and you don't have to like citizenship-based taxation, but it is the law in the US and has been for longer than I have been alive.

fyi, the reason that US law attempts to prevent foreign taxation of US-earned income is to avoid the very same situation that countries such as Italy and Greece are struggling with right now, i.e. the diversion of income earned within their borders to a jurisdiction with lower taxes.
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  #167  
Old 29.05.2013, 15:42
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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the US does not "declare" anybody to be a citizen, you have to affirmatively apply for citizenship or be born within the country's borders.
Or be born anywhere in the world to a US parent who has spent the required time in the US.

Tom
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  #168  
Old 29.05.2013, 16:08
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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I think its quite clear who is holding the strings in the federal council. Eveline Widmer Schlumpf is just a parrot for the banks and it wouldnt surprise me if she has some kind of financial interest coming from the banks.

The banks (as usual) look really bad in this. They made huge amounts of money from workers who poached American whales to their bank, now they are selling out those employees to the IRS and acting like a model transparent bank. (Just so they can continue to participate in the US market) They are willing to pay billions of dollars in punitive IRS fees (in the similar type of manner that normal Americans can be assessed FBAR penalties) They however can recoup those fees quickly while a typical American is wiped out for life.
Exactly, I am wondering what is worse:

1) The fact that the governements are totally screweing citizen to protect banks (See Cyprus and their money savings seized; or this event where Swiss bank workers will get legal issues with the USA)

2) Or the fact that no citizen are complaining/ fighting back.......



Are we all so stupid and passive??
(the answer is yes., if anyone wonders...)
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  #169  
Old 29.05.2013, 16:08
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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fyi, the reason that US law attempts to prevent foreign taxation of US-earned income is to avoid the very same situation that countries such as Italy and Greece are struggling with right now, i.e. the diversion of income earned within their borders to a jurisdiction with lower taxes.

Greece and Italy do not tax income earned from sources by people living in said source.

If the US was really concerned about "the diversion of income earned within their borders to a jurisdiction with lower taxes" they need to look at corporate taxes. I will go out on a limb and say that the total tax obligations of all Americans overseas is less than what Apple would have had to pay had they not moved money earned on US soil to overseas companies
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  #170  
Old 29.05.2013, 16:17
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Exactly, I am wondering what is worse:

1) The fact that the governements are totally screweing citizen to protect banks (See Cyprus and their money savings seized; or this event where Swiss bank workers will get legal issues with the USA)

2) Or the fact that no citizen are complaining/ fighting back.......



Are we all so stupid and passive??
(the answer is yes., if anyone wonders...)
Actually you would be surprised. When you read the comments on some of these articles I have noticed a lot of negative comments towards the government and the USA. I also don't think the FATCA agreement with the USA will pass the parliament as the SP and SVP parties are both strongly against it. (though for different reasons) The only party supporting the giving up of the bank secrecy for americans is the FDP. Even they are not completely united and some of them are against the agreement. On the other hand some of the opposition in the parliament are just opportunistic politicians who recognize a golden opportunity (hand greasing from the banks for their vote) when they see one. We'll see how it all plays out.
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  #171  
Old 29.05.2013, 16:59
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Anyone heard any more about the proposed referendums that were being put forward by a couple of the parties?
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  #172  
Old 29.05.2013, 17:03
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Actually you would be surprised. When you read the comments on some of these articles I have noticed a lot of negative comments towards the government and the USA. I also don't think the FATCA agreement with the USA will pass the parliament as the SP and SVP parties are both strongly against it. (though for different reasons) The only party supporting the giving up of the bank secrecy for americans is the FDP. Even they are not completely united and some of them are against the agreement. On the other hand some of the opposition in the parliament are just opportunistic politicians who recognize a golden opportunity (hand greasing from the banks for their vote) when they see one. We'll see how it all plays out.
I read comments on the news, they are almost always negative towards whatever the topic is about....

Anyway, it's only "comments" on websites, it does not changes much "in real life". Actually it seems that people just "comment" and do nothing about it.

I won't talk about the end of your post, maybe there are also political fights or whatever- But focusing on "people's comments", that's all it is-
Just comments, nothing else!!!

See that situation in Cyprus where the government allowed to take money into people savings, should have ended up into some heads falling (poetical metaphor for saying politicians being forced to leave their position, or literally some heads being nicely cut off)
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  #173  
Old 29.05.2013, 17:07
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Greece and Italy do not tax income earned from sources by people living in said source.
Not yet... It could happen if the governments decides to change their laws.
Actually French government retards were considering doing like the USA:

http://translate.google.com/translat...er_240371.html

In other words, USA would not be one of the rare countries to tax it's citizen working abroad, but it would be identical everywhere: A big crappy and messy taxing system to get the last penny of every citizens in order to feed massive money wasters.
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  #174  
Old 29.05.2013, 17:40
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Exactly, I am wondering what is worse:

1) The fact that the governements are totally screweing citizen to protect banks (See Cyprus and their money savings seized; or this event where Swiss bank workers will get legal issues with the USA)

2) Or the fact that no citizen are complaining/ fighting back.......



Are we all so stupid and passive??
(the answer is yes., if anyone wonders...)
There is no worst. Both are bad. The easiest way to fight back, if one is a US citizen, is to renounce US citizenship. Such might not accomplish much politically right now, but one demonstrates to locals that one that one doesn't have to yield to US aggressions.
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  #175  
Old 29.05.2013, 20:14
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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...the US [government] does not "declare" anybody to be a citizen, you have to affirmatively apply for citizenship or be born within the country's borders...
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Or be born anywhere in the world to a US parent who has spent the required time in the US.
But that's not all...

The US government also has defined a "US person" category for taxing purposes — which includes people who (according to the law) have the same tax obligations as US citizens, just for having made the US their official 'permanent residence' at some time...

If one's status as 'US person' (via residency) hasn't been officially revoked, hasn't been officially determined to have been abandoned, or one hasn't begun to be treated as an official resident of another country under the provisions of a tax treaty between the United States and that country, or one hasn't notified the US Secretary of the Treasury of the same, then one is technically/legally still a 'US person'.
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  #176  
Old 30.05.2013, 07:45
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

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Not yet... It could happen if the governments decides to change their laws.
Actually French government retards were considering doing like the USA:

http://translate.google.com/translat...er_240371.html

In other words, USA would not be one of the rare countries to tax it's citizen working abroad, but it would be identical everywhere: A big crappy and messy taxing system to get the last penny of every citizens in order to feed massive money wasters.
I loved the second comment on that article.

" tourists use our roads, pavements etc ... they should pay taxes also in France. And also our former colonies, after all, they needed us all. and then also germany who did not pay to use our roads during the last war, and even Italians 2000 years ago, the Romans had to use our roads to invade Gaul."
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  #177  
Old 30.05.2013, 08:23
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

It's not difficult to lose American nationality at all and you certainly don't need triple nationality to do it. If that's what he believes I wouldn't hire Jerome Barr as my lawyer if he gets his facts so wrong.

If the French government goes down that path, I expect a lot of French citizens to be following Mr. Depardieu over the border.
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  #178  
Old 30.05.2013, 08:46
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

After rereading that post, its apparent that it was something that was suggested in 2011and since we haven't heard about it, it seems to have died off. (like the 75% tax rate)

It was also introduced by one person, hence it doesn't mean the french government as a whole was supporting it.
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  #179  
Old 05.06.2013, 08:23
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

A blogger at the Canadian "Isaac Brock Society" tracks US citizenship renunciations using the FBI NICS monthly figures rather than the much-lower IRS quarterly reported figures in the US Federal Register. Since the FBI figures are used to disallow firearm purchases by former US citizens, it is thought that they are more accurate than the IRS figures, which some think are understated for political reasons, i.e., to avoid embarrassment on the rising numbers to the Obama administration. Below are the highlights from this blog published yesterday:

"For the period of 1 June 2011 to 31 May 2012, the FBI recorded about 1,425 renunciations (an exact number can’t be given since the report for May 2012 went missing, so this estimate assumes that the FBI’s May renunciant count was half of the increase recorded between April and June). In comparison, from 1 June 2012 to 31 May 2013, the FBI recorded 5,283 renunciations, making for a year-on-year increase of 271%. (The year-on-year increase without the mysterious 3,220 renunciant records added to NICS in September and October 2012 is 44%.) With four or five relinquishers for every six renunciants, that suggests a rough total of about nine thousand people giving up U.S. citizenship in one way or another during the past year."

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/06/...comment-371750
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  #180  
Old 05.06.2013, 09:18
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Re: Giving up the blue passport because of FATCA - one member's experience

Yeah, but are we sure those figures don't include relinquishers as well? The US doesn't tend to differentiate between the two much and I would have thought that relinquishers would also be banned from getting hold of guns.
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