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Old 09.08.2013, 01:26
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Dangerous business going into hospital!

According to Tagesanzeiger here (in German of course)
"In Switzerland it is estimated 70,000 people per year get an infection in hospital .
About 2,000 people a year die; around 6 people per day."


This is around 6 times the number of people killed in road accidents.
I never understand why so many people & politicians bang on about road deaths when there are much more serious things to fix.
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Old 09.08.2013, 01:41
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

I would suggest to the contrary - going in is easy ........ coming out, is the tricky bit.
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Old 09.08.2013, 03:54
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Millso has made some interesting contributions
Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

I imagine that most of the people who die from these infections are elderly who would otherwise have died or been seriously ill even if they hadn't entered hospital. Hospitals are generally for sick people thus there is going to be bugs in the place no matter how much they clean it. They do the best they can.

Road accidents however are in most cases avoidable and often happen to the young (relatively speaking) and healthy citizens.

I'm guessing that may have something to do with why people bang on about road deaths ?

Regarding the above quote. Is that saying of the 70,000 who get infected, 6,000 die or that 70,000 people get infected in hospital and 6,000 people die of an infection (not necessarily contracted in hospital). I'm very wary with how journalists use facts and figures.

According to the article over a sixth of these infections are post op when we are in general going to be very susceptible to infections anyway. I'm not sure how they can radically improve conditions shy of giving each patient there own sterile clean room.

Still interesting read and something to mull over. Thanks for sharing
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Old 09.08.2013, 06:22
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

Good article. Now they know they have to improve.

Hopefully visitors will become more aware and take care.
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Old 09.08.2013, 07:06
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

How about some accuracy in the article and look at how many are already critical before they even enter hospital
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Old 09.08.2013, 08:04
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

Hand washing. So simple, yet so effective.
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Old 09.08.2013, 08:07
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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According to Tagesanzeiger here (in German of course)
"In Switzerland it is estimated 70,000 people per year get an infection in hospital .
About 2,000 people a year die; around 6 people per day."


This is around 6 times the number of people killed in road accidents.
I never understand why so many people & politicians bang on about road deaths when there are much more serious things to fix.
Most of those who die from infections were seriouly ill anyway. The infections only give them the rest. They in healthier days may not even have noticed the infection in question.
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Old 09.08.2013, 08:32
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

I love the conclusions like most would have died anyways mentality. I am a firm believer that avoidance of a hospital is the best possible measure - medical staff are human and sometimes mistakes are made and sometimes the care is downright negligent. However, in most cases, things work out for the best.

When you are personally affected by a case that probably could have been avoided - it does tend to make you see things a bit differently. My fil went in for a "routine " operation to one of the most "prestigious" hospitals in Germany back in 2010. After the OP, he complained of pressure in his abdomen and the nurse shrugged him off as a cranky man who was just making trouble. In the end, he was suffering internal bleeding and by the time that was realized, it was too late - he developed sepsis and his lungs and heart shut down. He didn't pass away then, but was in ICU for several months, then at a rehab center for several more and passed away 10 months later from an infection that shouldn't have taken his life, but as he was so weak, he couldn't fight it. (he didn't develop the infection in the hospital, I am not "blaiming" them for that) but a little more due diligence post op could have made a difference.
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Old 09.08.2013, 08:58
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

I got a streptococcus infection after my last surgery, 3 months ago. Lucky for me, we caught it at a very early stage and I got treated rapidly and efficiently.

Sadly, these kind of infections happen very easily and even in a 5 stars hospital.

While we can't control what is going on in the surgery room, we still can keep an eye on any sign of infection to act promptly.
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Old 09.08.2013, 08:59
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

When I was last in hospital the ward was cleaned twice a day. The chief medical guy was under pressure to reduce costs, by reducing the cleaning bill. He said "over my dead body".

Compare and contrast with UK hospitals.
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Old 09.08.2013, 09:03
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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I imagine that most of the people who die from these infections are elderly who would otherwise have died or been seriously ill even if they hadn't entered hospital. Hospitals are generally for sick people thus there is going to be bugs in the place no matter how much they clean it. They do the best they can.

Road accidents however are in most cases avoidable and often happen to the young (relatively speaking) and healthy citizens.
Wildly speculating here, aren't you? Got any facts/links to back that up?
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Old 09.08.2013, 09:33
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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When I was last in hospital the ward was cleaned twice a day. The chief medical guy was under pressure to reduce costs, by reducing the cleaning bill. He said "over my dead body".

Compare and contrast with UK hospitals.
I've been to three different Swiss Hospitals and the attention to cleanliness and hygiene is first rate. I can't see what they could have done more.

My parent's local hospital in the UK is the notorious Mid-Staffs. I've been there and the place needs to be raised to the ground. An utter disgrace to the NHS and the staff that work there. Somehow though, the locals are up in arms because they want to close it .
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Old 09.08.2013, 09:56
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

Obviously not experience an nhs hospital.... or better said an nhs gp office. Stick you all in one room for a few hours coughing, scratching and spreading god knows what. No thanks.

I've only experience the local swiss hospital and I've been very pleased with the standards there. Plenty of opportunities to wash or sterilize hands. .oh.... and I found there were generally less waiting times and more people with common sense.
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Old 09.08.2013, 12:26
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

I agree with avoiding going to hospitals in genera - but sometimes you just have to, either for yourself or to give support and company to someone else.

I agree even more with the comments (e.g. by Milso) that suggest the people dying from infections caught at the hospital are most likely frail even before going in etc.

I don't think the comparison with driving accidents is fair. Some of the people that are going into the hospital are due to car accidents

Regardless, dealing with the two issues is not exclusive.
Multi-resistant bacteria are certainly a big issue in general and with the abuse of antibiotics it is getting worse.

Personally, for now, of the two issues I'm much more concerned with the dangers associated with vehicles (as someone cycling daily). If I was a older person that needed to go to the hospital several time perhaps I would be more worried with hospital-borne infections.
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Old 09.08.2013, 12:32
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

Especially for visitors. Some studies have found that many of the infections people pick up in hospital come from the people visiting them, this is especially true of the MRSA type infections.

Quote:
Hand washing. So simple, yet so effective.
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Old 09.08.2013, 12:52
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

The issue is not whether Swiss hospital care is better or worse than that in other countries, but rather the question is: Do Swiss hospitals need improvement to best care for patients?

I know that many here have had positive experiences with health care in Switzerland, and that my poor opinion of the system, based on the treatment I have received, is not shared.

But I'm glad to see this article, and glad that some hospital's failings are finally being talked about, and hopefully addressed. It is important to recognize that there is plenty of room for improvement.
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Old 09.08.2013, 13:04
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

Well, hospitals are for the sick - so people do tend to die more often there, than anywhere else.

As the doctor conducting a first aid class said "Never pronounce anyone dead at an accident. They are only dead once a doctor says they`re dead"!
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Old 09.08.2013, 15:07
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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Obviously not experience an nhs hospital.... or better said an nhs gp office. Stick you all in one room for a few hours coughing, scratching and spreading god knows what. No thanks.
Yup.

Last year I saw on a bus an NHS ad -"go to your GP to get the flu shot". I normally have it done privately, but the GP surgery I'm registered with is pretty close so I thought (still not sure why) I'd give it a try.

After almost an hour waiting (my appointment time was irrelevant) in the busy room (amidst the coughing etc) I was told that only certain "at-risk" categories can get the flu shot. Not everybody. I told them I wasn't looking for anything for free and I was willing to pay the normal market price or whatever they'd charge for it. No cigar.

I got home and sure enough, a few days later, I was down with the flu
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Old 09.08.2013, 15:29
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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According to Tagesanzeiger here (in German of course)
"In Switzerland it is estimated 70,000 people per year get an infection in hospital .
About 2,000 people a year die; around 6 people per day."


This is around 6 times the number of people killed in road accidents.
I never understand why so many people & politicians bang on about road deaths when there are much more serious things to fix.

Avoid like the plague the HUG (Hôpitaux Universitaires de Genève), commonly known as "Hôpital Cantonal" (Cantonal hospital), by far the worst hospital in Switzerland. One of my relatives died while being hospitalized at HUG. Her death was linked to deadly hospital germ outbreak.
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Old 09.08.2013, 15:42
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Re: Dangerous business going into hospital!

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The issue is not whether Swiss hospital care is better or worse than that in other countries, but rather the question is: Do Swiss hospitals need improvement to best care for patients?

I know that many here have had positive experiences with health care in Switzerland, and that my poor opinion of the system, based on the treatment I have received, is not shared.

But I'm glad to see this article, and glad that some hospital's failings are finally being talked about, and hopefully addressed. It is important to recognize that there is plenty of room for improvement.
For me personally it was shocking to see how they handle blood samples and then, without putting on gloves or washing hands, take blood from another patient. Probably the risk of a cross infection is minimal, but still.
Things like these doesn't happen anymore in countries which have far less money for the health sector.

There is a lot to talk about the prestigious Swiss hygiene; I will refrain though.
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