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  #41  
Old 19.09.2013, 13:15
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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I may drop dead of a fondu induced heart attack at 55, but I'll die fit....

... and happy
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  #42  
Old 23.09.2013, 22:47
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

Hi,

My reasoning as to why we don't have such an evident "fitness culture" like you mean by health stores and such is because by our very nature Switzerland is healthy. We don't need health stores because the supermarkets and even farmers' markets offer more than enough variety of healthy foods.

As for gyms, there's more than enough and people generally here are active. I think this is a very active nation.
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  #43  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:13
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

At the risk of being attacked by cat gifs

I think the OP meant something more specific by the fitness culture. I used to live in California, and was certainly shocked by the amount of sausage, beer, wine and cheese consumed here. Oh, and the cigarettes. Ugh. And the general apathy about working out (you run five days a week? Why?) Still, now it's been six years and I am convinced that, yes, the Swiss are relatively healthy (though how remains a mystery )

Anyway, the fitness culture is more than just general health. Over yonder, it's something that's much more in the open, talked about, part of everyday life. The equivalent here might be the generally intense interest in the weather. And yeah, you might see the west coast obsession as faddish. However, before we mock the poor OP for her crazy beliefs, lets not forget that we're in the land of homeopathy here.
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  #44  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:21
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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However, before we mock the poor OP for his crazy beliefs, lets not forget that we're in the land of homeopathy here.
Homeopathy gets a fair bit of mockery here on EF as well, to be fair.

Also, it's not the beliefs per se that seems to have set people off, so much as OPs resolute belief that only Vancouverite healthiness is real, and that Swiss culture is unhealthy because it is different.

That's what bugs me, because it frankly smacks of un-Canadian arrogance and sense of superiority. There are many ways to healthy, and that sort of dogmatism rubs me the wrong way.
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  #45  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:31
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

It all boils down to this:

what percentage of the population of Vancouver are obese compared to that of Lausanne??
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  #46  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:36
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

I love fitness too, will keep in tuned
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  #47  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:37
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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Homeopathy gets a fair bit of mockery here on EF as well, to be fair.

Also, it's not the beliefs per se that seems to have set people off, so much as OPs resolute belief that only Vancouverite healthiness is real, and that Swiss culture is unhealthy because it is different.

That's what bugs me, because it frankly smacks of un-Canadian arrogance and sense of superiority. There are many ways to healthy, and that sort of dogmatism rubs me the wrong way.
True, homeopathy does get it, but usually only when people try to push it on everyone else (or suggest that it is better than vaccines).

But seriously, you weren't shocked by some of the things you saw? The amount of sausage and beer still shocks me, to be honest.
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  #48  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:38
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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It all boils down to this:

what percentage of the population of Vancouver are obese compared to that of Lausanne??
That's a bit narrow, data-wise, however:

Name:  obesity.PNG
Views: 515
Size:  13.8 KB

That's from the Organization for Economic Development's Obesity report 2012.[PDF]

Switzerland looks to be about 7%, Canada closer to 18%.

[additional]

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But seriously, you weren't shocked by some of the things you saw? The amount of sausage and beer still shocks me, to be honest.
Lots of sausage and beer, sure. Not as much packaged foods and soft drinks, more walking and sports, far less tolerance of obesity. Looked at as a whole, sausage and beer in an active lifestyle is far better than McD's, KFC's and driving everywhere.

Last edited by Occasional_Canadian; 24.09.2013 at 10:41. Reason: avoiding double post
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  #49  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:41
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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It all boils down to this:

what percentage of the population of Vancouver are obese compared to that of Lausanne??

This again. You cannot plop a person on a scale and assess his or her health.
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Old 24.09.2013, 10:41
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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True, homeopathy does get it, but usually only when people try to push it on everyone else (or suggest that it is better than vaccines).

But seriously, you weren't shocked by some of the things you saw? The amount of sausage and beer still shocks me, to be honest.
Wha? I don't know what you're comparing it with, but in my view the Swiss don't drink very much beer at all.

And sausages? Well sure, when they're out on the streets partying, or at a market, or whatever, then yes, sausages will be consumed. But on the flip side it's much less normal to see people wandering round the streets eating burgers and the like, and frankly, without any specific facts entering into the equation, I feel that a sausage and bread, plus a good dollop of mustard and ketchup, is much less unhealthy than a big mac, large fries and extra-large coke.
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Old 24.09.2013, 10:44
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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True, homeopathy does get it, but usually only when people try to push it on everyone else (or suggest that it is better than vaccines).

But seriously, you weren't shocked by some of the things you saw? The amount of sausage and beer still shocks me, to be honest.
I don't get that feeling. I don't see the Swiss consuming stuff to excess, which I think makes the difference with some of the chubbier nations. Yes, you can eat all of those things - sausage, cheese, beer and wine but the average person here isn't at the junk food trough all day every day. Plus their alcohol consumption is embarrassing. I feel like a proper lush by comparison...

I consume all of those things but not often, plus I'm fairly active so I'm a normal weight.

If I pop into a Migros take away at lunch time, the place is packed out with people buying salads or a wholemeal sandwich.

The only real "snacking" I see is when it's someone's birthday and they bring in a load of gipfeli or some other baked goods into the office. Otherwise it's you and the coffee machine till lunchtime.

Even the smoking seems to be on the decline here. 10 years ago the levels of smoking shocked me but now it seems less and less, especially since they've stopped people smoking in restaurants, etc.
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  #52  
Old 24.09.2013, 10:48
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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This again. You cannot plop a person on a scale and assess his or her health.
When discussing medical, morbid obesity, and in the context of fitness, it's the best index available.

Morbid obesity does not equal being overweight, and is a defined medical pathology. If you are obese, you are by definition unhealthy.

Morbid Obesity
A condition defined as a BMI of greater than 40 kg/m2. MO is common in the US and increasingly so in developed countries. The co-morbidities of morbid obesity are those of obesity, but more severe—type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease/heart disease, sleep dypnoea, osteoarthritis and a 25–33% increased risk of breast, colorectal, endometrial, kidney, oesophageal and prostate cancer and an even higher risk of gallbladder cancer


Segen's Medical Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.
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Old 24.09.2013, 10:49
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

Bratwurst and Brotli - about 450 calories
Big Mac meal - 1350 calories.

But, and this is the big difference. Swiss people will generally have their bratwurst and bread as a meal but big macs are frequently eaten as a snack between meals.
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Old 24.09.2013, 10:50
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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This again. You cannot plop a person on a scale and assess his or her health.
Well you can, of course, but it's not the only thing, sure. OTOH in a discussion about healthy lifestyles I'd suggest it's probably the single most significant and obvious measure available at a population level. Epidemiologists in research tends to look at such things first, as general measures, before focussing down on more specifics, so I don't see why we shouldn't do the same here.
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Old 24.09.2013, 10:53
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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This again. You cannot plop a person on a scale and assess his or her health.

Would you agree that there is just a hint of a correlation between fitness and weight, in most of the population?

If you don't, you're surely in the same camp as people who say that smoking's healthy as their grandfather smoked forty Woodbine a day for 98 years.
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  #56  
Old 24.09.2013, 11:01
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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It all boils down to this:

what percentage of the population of Vancouver are obese compared to that of Lausanne??
Vancouver: 11.7% (the lowest percentage of any city in Canada!)

Lausanne: 14.3/16.9 (women/men)

http://www.canadafacts.org/
http://link.springer.com/article/10....71-2458-8-330#

*****These were the only two sources I could find for obesity by city. For one (Lausanne), the subjects were adult and weight/height were measured. For Vancouver, I could not find the primary literature, so I don't know if the numbers were self-reported or measured.

Also, I did run across a whole rash of data stating that since Switzerland relies nearly exclusively on self-reported data (unlike, say the UK, which uses NHS measured data), the obesity rates here, currently reported at 8.1% are predicted to significantly higher in reality.
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Old 24.09.2013, 11:04
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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Bratwurst and Brotli - about 450 calories
Big Mac meal - 1350 calories.

But, and this is the big difference. Swiss people will generally have their bratwurst and bread as a meal but big macs are frequently eaten as a snack between meals.
Big mac alone: 550 calories.

Also, I'd like to see a source for the claim that big macs are "frequently eaten as a snack."

Sorry, Tom.
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  #58  
Old 24.09.2013, 11:08
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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Vancouver: 11.7% (the lowest percentage of any city in Canada!)

Lausanne: 14.3/16.9 (women/men)

http://www.canadafacts.org/
http://link.springer.com/article/10....71-2458-8-330#

*****These were the only two sources I could find for obesity by city. For one (Lausanne), the subjects were adult and weight/height were measured. For Vancouver, I could not find the primary literature, so I don't know if the numbers were self-reported or measured.

Also, I did run across a whole rash of data stating that since Switzerland relies nearly exclusively on self-reported data (unlike, say the UK, which uses NHS measured data), the obesity rates here, currently reported at 8.1% are predicted to significantly higher in reality.
Did those numbers include the suburbs? Considering the demographics of the city and the relative scales, it would be a better comparison of province to canton, rather than city to city.

"even in slightly slimmer B.C., the number of obese people rose more than 25 per cent between 2000 and 2011, according to data collected by the Canadian Community Health Survey.One in four British Columbians is obese.
The CCHS uses self-reported information on height and weight collected from Canadians age 18 and over to calculate Body Mass Index, a widely accepted measure for healthy weight. "

link

[edit: Canadian data self-reported too]

Last edited by Occasional_Canadian; 24.09.2013 at 11:11. Reason: emphasis
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Old 24.09.2013, 11:12
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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Would you agree that there is just a hint of a correlation between fitness and weight, in most of the population?

If you don't, you're surely in the same camp as people who say that smoking's healthy as their grandfather smoked forty Woodbine a day for 98 years.
There is a correlation. Yes. However, there are obese people who are fit. And everyone can improve their health and fitness through exercise and appropriate eating. I think as a summary measure obesity is relied on far too much and far too easily without sufficient thought by many people here who find it easier to judge than think. And the variation between obesity and morbid obesity is large. BMI is not always a panacea, but it is a convenient measure sometimes. That's my objection.

I have no idea what a Woodbine is, so I can't assess that statement. did the grandfather start smoking at birth? However, smoking is dangerous and can shorten lives.
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Old 24.09.2013, 11:13
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Re: Fitness and health-conscious community

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Big mac alone: 550 calories.

Also, I'd like to see a source for the claim that big macs are "frequently eaten as a snack."

Sorry, Tom.
Actually it was big mac meal eaten as a snack. I was wondering where also.
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