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Old 14.10.2013, 23:04
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Drugs

whats Switzerland stand on Drug dealers, i see a lot of it going on on the train station and in a few parks, and nothing seems to be done about it?
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Old 14.10.2013, 23:12
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Re: Drugs

Either make a citizens arrest, call the police, sell the same drugs at a cheaper price until they go broke, or ignore them.

It's rather simple - they're left alone because people who spot it don't care enough to do anything about it. One assumes the police, whether they care or not, would stop it (it's their duty) but aren't there at the right place at the right time.
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Old 14.10.2013, 23:27
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Re: Drugs

C'mon - folk have got to put something in the free needles that are handed out...
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Old 15.10.2013, 09:53
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Re: Drugs

It seems to be completely tolerated, petty dealing. I think the attidute is that as long as they are not bothering anybody, it's fine.

When i stayed in Euax Vives area Geneva there were always half a dozen african gentlemen who walked around the blocks from 6pm - 11pm. At first they'd say hello with nod and wink but after seeing them every night, they just said hello, knowing i wasn't a buyer.

They would stash the goods inside a can and hide it under some garbage bags usually. Once a client had paid another vendor would collect the goods and hand it over.

The cops passed regularly, they must have known what they were up to.
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Old 15.10.2013, 10:01
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Re: Drugs

I am not sure I understand the reasons to let it be tolerated, and so obviously. I don't like the message it gives to kids who grow up noticing this and society having a lax attitude to this. I am usually live and let live kind of person, but when the park right next to the school is filled with drug dealers and their ratio to moms with baby carriages is 10:0, is something that is hard to comprehend. Parents in the school have tried to organise something, but the number of drug dealers have increased this year.
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Old 15.10.2013, 10:06
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Re: Drugs

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I am not sure I understand the reasons to let it be tolerated, and so obviously. I don't like the message it gives to kids who grow up noticing this and society having a lax attitude to this. I usually live and let live kind of person, but when the park right next to the school is filled with drug dealers and their ratio to moms with baby carriages is 10:0, is something that is had to comprehend. Parents in the school have tried to organise something, but the number of drug dealers have increased this year.
I think the cops prefer to do occasional high profile clean up jobs and make a big deal of it, it's often on the news that they arrested 20 dealers from one area -- then had to let them go again for some reason.

I'd prefer to see constant harrassment of them, stop and search, follow them around, disrupt their activities but it will never happen here.
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Old 15.10.2013, 10:45
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Re: Drugs

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I think the cops prefer to do occasional high profile clean up jobs and make a big deal of it, it's often on the news that they arrested 20 dealers from one area -- then had to let them go again for some reason.

I'd prefer to see constant harrassment of them, stop and search, follow them around, disrupt their activities but it will never happen here.
A co-worker who used to live and work in Geneva told me that the dealers were actually waiting in front of banks ("go where the customer is").

The problem isn't the dealers: it's the demand!

As long as there's demand, there's going to be somebody who will fulfill that demand.

Personally, I could do without drugs and drug-dealers. And I can see why parents get nervous knowing them in vicinity to their children.

But I think we can agree that an oppressive regime against drugs (as maintained by the US) didn't do much to eliminate drug-abuse?
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Old 15.10.2013, 10:55
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Re: Drugs

I think we can definitely agree that seriously oppressive regime, without the necessary education and therapy work that should go hand in hand with persecution, is probably a no go. But there aren't only two poles of the strategy, either squish and punish, or let drug dealers deal in school areas and parks with kids so much that it makes people run away from these areas as soon they fetch their kids. What I do not like is the fact that this little business empowers the dealers to bug in other areas, too, train waiting rooms, public toilets don't feel safe, especially around GE parks, sidewalks with underpath, etc. It's just something that would take a very little to influence, ie what JohnH said about pestering these dealers, ever so little, and ever so often, in order to make certain kid and park areas cleaner of this crap. The lack of action is not neutral as this country is so famous for. It's careless. And I do not think it is a fault of cops, seems to me a lacking legislature and support they do not have. Feds leave it to the cantons, cantons leave it to the feds and communes, communes leave it to the canton and fed.
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Old 15.10.2013, 11:04
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Re: Drugs

The there's the Bernese strategy. If you want drugs, you go to a vaguely tolerated area (the Reitschule) and get them there. Or to that little shack by Bollwerk ... and it appears not to be a problem for the city (though rather ugly and unpleasant) so long as the dealers don't start dealing in another part of town.
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Old 15.10.2013, 11:27
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Re: Drugs

I don't think there's a middle ground that works, it should be illegal and enforced hard or legal.

If i was in charge of the world it would be legal, properly produced, properly distributed and properly sold, taxed and all above board. Just like the various other 'drugs' many enjoy.

World crime slashed over night. Nobel prize on it's way.
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Old 15.10.2013, 11:33
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Re: Drugs

Must say that for all the rep CH has for drugs - especially coke in ZH - being ubiquitous, I seldom see anything apart from the occasional twosome coming out of a club toilet wiping their noses.

Of course, the smell of strong weed is everywhere, especially in the summer months, but that hardly counts for much

I suppose if I lived in a building besieged by crack addicts, I might feel differently, but I don't. It's hardly Moss Side.
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Old 15.10.2013, 11:55
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Re: Drugs

Somebody smart once told me, "so what it works.doesn't make it good".

I think saying things are good here because they do not resemble some serious mess outside, doesn't say that much. What makes it reasonable isn't conscience of users or the one of public, but the fact the prices are so sky high. I am not really sure how it should be dealt with, just know some GE areas are becoming a nightmare, parks unusable.

JohnH, I'd give you a Nobel prize for this, seriously. The only thing that would stop me, would be thinking not about users. But about users kids, who I know for sure wish the system would be more efficient in making the drug trade harder and less convenient. Immediately.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 15.10.2013 at 13:43.
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Old 15.10.2013, 12:11
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Re: Drugs

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I'd prefer to see constant harrassment of them, stop and search, follow them around, disrupt their activities but it will never happen here.
can you tell me where this happens? what city did/does it? i tell you: none.
plus the police here does all that! langstrasse zurich in 2006/2007 every 10m somebody asked "sugar, cola?" and this has now stopped (2008ish?). the whole open pushing has been sent elsewhere, minimzed, and the heroin prescription programme works ok. every now and then i read in the papers that drug dealers were cought with cash, drugs, multiple fons, extender stuff. its rather small amounts. plus i read that the airport control busts big chunks now and then. so they do something against it, but crashing the ants is not the way. too expensive, eg. keeping them locked. and do you want to have singapore law enforced here? i want to hear you if your child gets busted with 3g of weed and faces 25 years or death penalty. all your education, love and morals wont keep anyone from drugs when among "wrong" peers.
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Old 15.10.2013, 13:40
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Re: Drugs

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the fact the prices are so sky high
This by itself is a sign that the forces of prohibition are doing something that should please you - it's certainly not down to tax and I was just reading yesterday about the strength of the CHF, so that just leaves constriction of supply, no?
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Old 15.10.2013, 13:50
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Re: Drugs

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can you tell me where this happens? what city did/does it? i tell you: none.
plus the police here does all that! langstrasse zurich in 2006/2007 every 10m somebody asked "sugar, cola?" and this has now stopped (2008ish?). the whole open pushing has been sent elsewhere, minimzed, and the heroin prescription programme works ok. every now and then i read in the papers that drug dealers were cought with cash, drugs, multiple fons, extender stuff. its rather small amounts. plus i read that the airport control busts big chunks now and then. so they do something against it, but crashing the ants is not the way. too expensive, eg. keeping them locked. and do you want to have singapore law enforced here? i want to hear you if your child gets busted with 3g of weed and faces 25 years or death penalty. all your education, love and morals wont keep anyone from drugs when among "wrong" peers.
This is exactly why i say above i would legalise it and control it.. Manufacture stuff properly and sell it in the pharmacy. put all of the 'ants' out of business along with the bigger 'ants' .. The tax franc this would bring in would pay for various education programs and in fact it would likely be so big it would reduce income tax too.

It's never gonna stop, your kids and mine are gonna try stuff one day but do you want them to buy some unknown stuff made in the third world, diluted by some low life and sold by an 'ant' in the street corner .. Or do you want them to buy some branded product, researched and safety tested from your friendly pharmacy?
The answer should be neither but if i had to choose

Yeah there will still be problem users who will abuse the freedom but at least now their care or jail would be funded from the tax on the product..
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Old 15.10.2013, 13:56
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Re: Drugs

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I don't think there's a middle ground that works, it should be illegal and enforced hard or legal.

If i was in charge of the world it would be legal, properly produced, properly distributed and properly sold, taxed and all above board. Just like the various other 'drugs' many enjoy.

World crime slashed over night. Nobel prize on it's way.
I dont think this would work. . . I think it would only introduce more problems and randomers trying the drugs that would not have done so otherwise.
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Old 15.10.2013, 14:05
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Re: Drugs

I don't see it too much in the parks where children play (although I haven't toured them to make a valid observation). I see the dealers mostly in the expected areas where they have business: Langstrasse, Letten etc.

As for protection of our children, I am more concerned about alcohol. At any park in the evening (especially those in family areas) I always see young teens drinking to excess. I feel that has a greater impact as the younger children see these older children as their peers and role models--as opposed to some older cracked-out looking drug dealer.
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Old 15.10.2013, 14:06
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Re: Drugs

If it's not broke, no need to fix it.
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Old 15.10.2013, 14:12
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Re: Drugs

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This is exactly why i say above i would legalise it and control it.. Manufacture stuff properly and sell it in the pharmacy. put all of the 'ants' out of business along with the bigger 'ants' .. The tax franc this would bring in would pay for various education programs and in fact it would likely be so big it would reduce income tax too.

It's never gonna stop, your kids and mine are gonna try stuff one day but do you want them to buy some unknown stuff made in the third world, diluted by some low life and sold by an 'ant' in the street corner .. Or do you want them to buy some branded product, researched and safety tested from your friendly pharmacy?
The answer should be neither but if i had to choose

Yeah there will still be problem users who will abuse the freedom but at least now their care or jail would be funded from the tax on the product..

The problem is: where do you source the "drugs"?
What drugs, actually?

Alcohol is alcohol is alcohol in the end (just some different flavors).
But with narcotics and even more so the chemical stuff, you are talking about basically one completely new drug every week (or day).

IMO, to my great dismay, I believe it's a lost cause altogether.
(Taking into consideration that the drug cartels more than likely "0wn" the governments of the world, in some way or other).
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Old 15.10.2013, 14:14
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Re: Drugs

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This is exactly why i say above i would legalise it and control it.. Manufacture stuff properly and sell it in the pharmacy. put all of the 'ants' out of business along with the bigger 'ants' .. The tax franc this would bring in would pay for various education programs and in fact it would likely be so big it would reduce income tax too.

It's never gonna stop, your kids and mine are gonna try stuff one day but do you want them to buy some unknown stuff made in the third world, diluted by some low life and sold by an 'ant' in the street corner .. Or do you want them to buy some branded product, researched and safety tested from your friendly pharmacy?
The answer should be neither but if i had to choose

Yeah there will still be problem users who will abuse the freedom but at least now their care or jail would be funded from the tax on the product..
ok, i replied before i read your post and im with you on that.
i dont see the alcohol consumption drop, as the drugs are consumed anyways since ever. so i dunno what lobby keeps the politics from doing it. the pros outshine the cons in your view as in mine, in many... well...
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