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  #321  
Old 10.03.2016, 10:46
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

To be fair: I honestly don't think that it's always a conscious process, i.e. I don't think most (though certainly some) people are "evil" and purposefully pay a woman less because she is a woman. They may not even realize their own subtle bias or prejudice, or may simply not even know what their male counterparts earn as no one tells them and they can't be bothered to find out themselves. I don't think there's an "evil conspiracy" against women going on here But I think awareness of the issue is important and it should be discussed in a proper way without either side lashing out (like partly in this thread, or in worse forms in RL).
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  #322  
Old 10.03.2016, 10:50
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Many firms in London are in the process of a full survey and assessment of salary differences per gender and the reasons- and very few deny that it exists.

There is however little subtelty about the bias and prejudice, and denial, shown on this thread, that is for sure.
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  #323  
Old 10.03.2016, 10:56
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

It's a very simple concept in the end:

Regardless of your gender, if you feel you are being underpaid in comparison to your co-workers. Approach you superior with the demand, backed up with your qualifications, your contributions and accomplishments and detailed description of why you deserved the defined increase. If this is done correctly, and they don't offer you a raise, find a new employer---if it's done correctly this is no issue.


If not, maybe you think you're a lot better than you actually are--also true if this concept needs to be explained to your regardless of your age/education/years of experience. Self delusion is a powerful foe.
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  #324  
Old 10.03.2016, 10:58
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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There is however little subtelty about the bias and prejudice, and denial, shown on this thread, that is for sure.
No one on this thread has denied that salary differences per gender exist. No one. No one has denied that these differences stem from gender role biases and prejudices. So what exactly is being denied?
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  #325  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:25
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Many firms in London are in the process of a full survey and assessment of salary differences per gender and the reasons- and very few deny that it exists.

There is however little subtelty about the bias and prejudice, and denial, shown on this thread, that is for sure.
Funny when it's salary differences between employees of same gender, there's always a valid explanation on why one is getting more (or less) than others.

When it cross genders, it's immediately discrimination...

PS: maybe you should not be the one mentioning "bias" though, that's a bit ironical...

PS2: Once again, no one is denying entirely the issue you are talking about. It's just there, to some extend, but along other issues impacting other type of employees... And also the "victims" you are fighting for are sometimes positively discriminated, which again, you are ignoring.

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  #326  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:34
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

It's cute of you to post your picture here, dear.
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  #327  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:36
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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But I think awareness of the issue is important and it should be discussed in a proper way without either side lashing out (like partly in this thread, or in worse forms in RL).
You are the one creating sides and doing so, excluding or creating a communication gap...
I'm a male, beside looking at by (big) genitals a few times a day, I am not going into the workplace with the same conception as you are expressing.

I have colleagues from all genders who are all unique individuals, some more stupid than others, some with different skills and personality traits. Even more complicated, the same colleagues are sometimes grumpy, moody, nicer, more aggressive, less aggressive, whatever...Not even going on salary differences...

But I have never ever considered that there is "sides" based on gender. Only unique and different individuals, colleagues.

Which is starting to worrying me, because based on some intelligent female's posts in this topic, that indicates that I might be gay or transgender*


*hm I might be able to play the victim card to my boss and claim a raise, to cover up the fact that I clearly negotiated my initial salary badly, unlike some of my other colleagues

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  #328  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:41
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's cute of you to post your picture here, dear.
Personally, I do find it's a beautiful animal...

I was only trying to make you realize about the accessory covering the side view, but it's ok, we've already established in other topic that you are past admitting or reconsidering arguments. And the reference might have been too difficult to comprehend for a woman
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  #329  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:42
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's cute of you to post your picture here, dear.
oh please.

a kindergarten comeback like that is SO not worth making everybody scroll through that pic again.
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  #330  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:48
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's cute of you to post your picture here, dear.
Hey ,
I have been genuinely "thanking you" for that nice comment (it's rare enough to be positively rewarded) by clicking the "thanks" button.
Each times it disappears It's like the internet God is preventing that action to happen... Or it's because you're a woman and i'm a man, giving positive feedback and acknowledgement of your worthy accomplishment can not be happening...



PS: I genuine about the button thing!
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  #331  
Old 10.03.2016, 11:55
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Horses aside (it does look yummy though :P )


We also have to respect that there is most likely a huge generation gap between some posters. A lot of opinions can be old fashioned and engrained to the point where it's hard to change. Not defending it, and it goes both ways.


I'm sure there are still a bunch of people who think the women's place is at home doing the home keeping (interestingly enough, I don't see any of them posting here).


I'm sure there's also a bunch of people who saw the overall wage gender gap (with no criteria) and essentially assume that women get paid 30% less for identical criteria on paper.


People from both of these extremes are impossible (and a ton of fun!) to debate with on the internet. Most likely will never change their view, but selectively agree with anything that supports their view and ignoring anything that is in contrast.


Personally I think nurture is the main change to equality. Unfortunately it is still very acceptable to coddle and 'protect' daughters as princesses, where sons are expected to tough it out, and man up.
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  #332  
Old 10.03.2016, 12:01
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Personally, I do find it's a beautiful animal...

I was only trying to make you realize about the accessory covering the side view, but it's ok, we've already established in other topic that you are past admitting or reconsidering arguments. And the reference might have been too difficult to comprehend for a woman
Hmmmm, the two of you look like this right now...

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  #333  
Old 11.03.2016, 14:13
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Are you really incapable of arguing without resorting to ad hominems?
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LOL. The privilege of a liberal humanities education, more like.
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Hypocrite - your post was noting more than attack on men, playing down issues that affect men and blaming them for all of women's ills.
Hypocrite? Nah, bro, just telling it like it is.

Show me where I beat down on "issues that affect men" and I'll buy you an appletini. Gender inequality is indeed an issue that affects men, but not in the way you're angling. I'm sure this thread could tolerate that discussion but perhaps make a fresh one; it's sure to go on and would be an excellent topic.

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Not every day you read a man-hating diatribe like that, but on your last comment, where you imply that domestic violence is a simply a male on female issue...
Hating? You're inferring, mate. I wrote nothing of the sort.

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Perhaps you should concentrate on that elephant in the room and stop spouting bigoted, misandrist offal.
Perhaps you should breathe deeply and create a new thread on how angry you are over female on male domestic violence? It would be an interesting thread topic. Bigoted and misandrist? lol.

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the overall myth that this is all down to some conspiracy by the penis-wielding oppressors here, who live charmed and privileged lives where everything works our way.
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It's really not complicated. No grand conspiracy. And doesn't involve self-pitying nonsense like "women are perceived to be worth only worth 77% of a man".
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It seems to me that one may only have a voice nowadays if one can publicize their victim status loud enough.
Any idea what the real reason is, rather than some mangina waterboarding you with reality telling you an impossible conspiracy?

...waittasecond! Self Pity. Hmmm, that's the smell!


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Why not discussing about the other negative incidents impacting equally men and women or to be more accurate, happening regardless of gender?
What about the incidents discriminating solely men? It seems there's not much noise about that in your comments. Maybe it's not fashionable/trendy enough?
I wish it were trendy enough. Let's contribute to Aeneas's new thread on the topic.

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Even if one were to accept that women's role (perceived and actual) as primary child carers is almost certainly the principle reason for this gap, but it would be foolish to suggest that it is the only reason or that it is limited to reduced hours, career breaks or the like...

snip

However, the question is, is women's role as primary child carers the principle reason for the gap?

So far we've heard precious little by way of what the 'real' reason for this inequality is, other than some vague innuendo that it is part of some great patriarchal conspiracy. Care to finally tell us what the 'real' reason is that so eclipses women's perceived, role as child carers in society?
Really, it's men. Would you like some tonic and ice with that..?

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No one on this thread has denied that salary differences per gender exist. No one. No one has denied that these differences stem from gender role biases and prejudices. So what exactly is being denied?
Social Justice.

The one who cares more ends up doing more. Social justice is being denied. Here's a great article from the NY Times with about as much information as you'll need to see where the problem lies. (Hope you're ok with liberal humanities research.)

Ask women the answer! Although roles are converging, there's still a lot of ground to make up. More from the Pew Reseach Team here provides food for thought on modern families, excluding caring for the elderly. Have a good weekend
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  #334  
Old 11.03.2016, 14:16
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Horses aside (it does look yummy though :P )
Indeed!

I prefer the filet, however.



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  #335  
Old 11.03.2016, 14:28
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

...heads for the door :P


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  #336  
Old 11.03.2016, 14:32
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Hating? You're inferring, mate. I wrote nothing of the sort.
Really, so when "fathers are either absent or at best around but clueless" you did so out of love? That is basic misandry; just as much as were one to claim that women were all hysterical and at best emotional in business.
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Perhaps you should breathe deeply and create a new thread on how angry you are over female on male domestic violence? It would be an interesting thread topic. Bigoted and misandrist? lol.
Yes, bigoted and misandrist. To you men are parental fools at best, if not simply deadbeats and domestic violence is the product of men. Pretty clear cut bigotry there.

Arguing with the likes of you makes as much sense as dialog with the KKK. You're a bigot and what you've posted has been clear on that point. Please f**k off back under that rock that other bigots hide under.
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  #337  
Old 11.03.2016, 14:39
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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...heads for the door :P


Promoting canibalism now?

Tom
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  #338  
Old 11.03.2016, 15:01
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Promoting canibalism now?

Tom


No, but I think it indicates gnashionalist tendencies.
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  #339  
Old 11.03.2016, 15:03
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Really, so when "fathers are either absent or at best around but clueless" you did so out of love? That is basic misandry; just as much as were one to claim that women were all hysterical and at best emotional in business.

Yes, bigoted and misandrist. To you men are parental fools at best, if not simply deadbeats and domestic violence is the product of men. Pretty clear cut bigotry there.

Arguing with the likes of you makes as much sense as dialog with the KKK. You're a bigot and what you've posted has been clear on that point. Please f**k off back under that rock that other bigots hide under.
You sound absolutely terrified and cowards often are. I stand by what I wrote not because you are in denial and I'm trying to win anything from you but because it's how the world is. You're the hypocrite, sunshine.

Rather than addressing the points made you scream victim hood of your own.

Start a dedicated Well Man thread, seriously. It may prove good therapy for you.

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  #340  
Old 11.03.2016, 15:13
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Wow, that little spat escalated into deep-and-personal-attack territory most impressively quickly.
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