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  #501  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:15
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It is a big thing indeed. :-)
I think there are political speeches too, politicians would never miss any opportunity to make themselves look better. Or a company's manager, a factory's director etc.
Like Trudeau's announcement of 650 million towards women's health and reproductive rights.
Where Trumps is great at marketing on the negative publicity media, Trudeau is just the same on the other side of the spectrum.
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  #502  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:21
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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If it's not alright to stereotype women as "easily satisfied with a bit of dead biomass every now and then", then it's equally a problem to stereotype men as "uninterested in flowers" (or incapable of seriousness).
Indeed, but my point was precisely that something supposedly about sexual equality was seeking to promote itself by giving women those aforementioned stereotypical bits of dead biomass.

If people go through the sort of logical hoops that we've seen posted here to justify those stereotypes when they suit, then those stereotypes will go nowhere.
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Yep, I can live with that logic. Job done.
Not actually the logic you were actually pushing, but I give up at this stage.

They've all got lovely bottoms.
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  #503  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:27
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I've just caught up with the "posh white women" thing. No. All women: posh or not, white, brown, black, pink or green. All backgrounds, all levels of education and socio-economic realities.

It may be discussed more obviously, more publically, by women who, taken as a group from all the women in the world, are arguably in a more privileged position, but it does not mean the day and it's associated causes are the sole domain of this small, small group.

Odile and Sandgrounder, and Blueangel i think, all said similar things: change generally trickles down from a position of privilege and power. It rarely happens from the bottom up. The Suffrage movement was driven by privilege, yes, and women who had men in their lives who believed in them. Change was fought for, sacrificed for, by women but, ultimately, permitted by a historically patriarchal society. It doesn't lessen the achievement.

Have you seen Hidden Figures? Phenomenally talented, incredibly intelligent ground breaking women who still, still, needed a man to say "actually, I want her to do it, I believe in her, let her do it." And I know it's a film, bit taken from a biographical account and the main character is alive and was consulted. It's outrageously true. These women were warriors ever day. And the opposite of your stereotypical posh white women.

All women deserve a day. I'm a woman every day, a mum every day, but it's nice to have that one special day that universally recognises it.

As to the point about double standards: maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's a bad thing, in the long run. Historically there have been double standards for men forever. Still are. It's an uncomfortable truth but the world keeps turning.

Let Emma Watson wear a see through top. I'm sure she wears less on the beach. It doesn't diminish her intelligence, drive or talent. It shouldn't dilute the work she does for the causes she campaigns for. It's only a double standard if we let it be. Otherwise it's just a young woman in a white designer dress.
Good grief. After that missive I would eat my own placenta after that, if I had one.
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  #504  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:32
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Indeed, but my point was precisely that something supposedly about sexual equality was seeking to promote itself by giving women those aforementioned stereotypical bits of dead biomass.
OK, so now I scrolled back and saw the post which mentions flowers being given out around the city.

Actually, at least I can still stand by my own point in that I don't "do" cut flowers anyway so that bit of perceived and unwitting "sexism" would have been wasted on me.

Strictly speaking, though, in the language of flowers they should have been giving out yellow carnations...
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  #505  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:34
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Good grief. After that missive I would eat my own placenta after that, if I had one.
A great source of essential vitamins I believe.

Ah, now I see the issue! You have yourself a lovely day, you charmer, you...
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  #506  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:44
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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As to the point about double standards: maybe, maybe not. I don't think it's a bad thing, in the long run. Historically there have been double standards for men forever. Still are. It's an uncomfortable truth but the world keeps turning.
At the present time, the Swiss constitution is very much in favor of women.
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  #507  
Old 09.03.2017, 14:46
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Ah, now I see the issue! You have yourself a lovely day, you charmer, you...
You worry about your own charms and issues and don't bother yourself with anyone else's.
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  #508  
Old 09.03.2017, 15:42
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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At the present time, the Swiss constitution is very much in favor of women.
It's playing catch-up. Was speaking historically and not just from a Swiss perspective.

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You worry about your own charms and issues and don't bother yourself with anyone else's.

I have so much charm and so few issues it all just overflows...

I do like to challenge bollocks when I read it though.
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  #509  
Old 09.03.2017, 15:50
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I have so much charm and so few issues it all just overflows...
You keep on telling yourself that.
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I do like to challenge bollocks when I read it though.
Funny, you seemed to be producing more than you were challenging there.
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  #510  
Old 09.03.2017, 16:07
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You keep on telling yourself that.

Funny, you seemed to be producing more than you were challenging there.
Did your humour/sarcasm setting take a hit?

It's only because I'm not agreeing with you. You don't like what I'm saying? Fair enough. It's your prerogative. Just as it's mine to challenge your stereotypical view. It doesn't make what I said about the Suffrage movement or those NASA pioneers any less true though.
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  #511  
Old 09.03.2017, 16:16
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's playing catch-up. Was speaking historically and not just from a Swiss perspective.
Fair enough. But I agree, I hope the laws in Switzerland will catch-up soon and will not discriminate men anymore.
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  #512  
Old 09.03.2017, 16:17
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Did your humour/sarcasm setting take a hit?
Which bit was sarcasm? The bit where you talked about talking bollocks? So does that mean it wasn't bollocks after all? Please explain what sarcasm is to me, as clearly I'm fuzzy on the topic.
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It's only because I'm not agreeing with you..
No it's because you chose to imply an ad hominem with your comment on charms and issues. If you want to disagree with someone that way, keep it to yourself.
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  #513  
Old 09.03.2017, 17:33
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

This on Wall Street makes me so happy on so many levels, by the way! Giggling all the way to work for 2 days now.

Picture from Reuters, until I am able to snap one live.
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  #514  
Old 09.03.2017, 18:13
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

How about "I like giving flowers to women because it suits them"? I wonder if it will call for outrage I love flowers and dudes don't really get flowers from me since they do not seem into it. There are gifts they appreciate more, however.

The historical view, though, is only convenient sometimes, it seems. Another thing, I wish women felt important enough for a decent celebration day without trying to feel important over somebody else's achievements. None of us were there at Suffrage time nor NASA pioneers. I just feel it slightly divisive: let's celebrate the chick day to show guys how mean they used to be (or are). And preferably justify our anger by it. It suits.

I don't get this vibe at all in the Eastern block where gender is a non issue. If there is injustice, all people work together to fix it. I would hate to be in a culture insisting on perceived injustice, inducing victimhood, in order to then present the carefully chosen heros as saviors. I think women do not need that. Nor do I think Hillary would have helped them. She would have stigmatize them more than they manage to stigmatize themselves already. Anyone who takes gender into their political speech makes me think twice.

An interesting commentary on "chicks in film":

https://youtu.be/hnYj8CdepdU
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Last edited by MusicChick; 09.03.2017 at 23:54.
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  #515  
Old 09.03.2017, 18:42
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Which bit was sarcasm? The bit where you talked about talking bollocks? So does that mean it wasn't bollocks after all? Please explain what sarcasm is to me, as clearly I'm fuzzy on the topic.

No it's because you chose to imply an ad hominem with your comment on charms and issues. If you want to disagree with someone that way, keep it to yourself.
I feel the need to quote Inigo Montoya: you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

SO... if we're going for the inference argument, what is "missive" and "placenta" if not a dig? I inferred rudeness from your comment and responded in kind. You clearly couldn't be bothered to pick out anything specific to disagree with and just dismissed it all as one mass of words that bore no relevance to you whatsoever so you decided not to engage with it. And then you're trying to shut me up by claiming my opinion has no value. If that isn't a metaphor for this thread I don't know what is.

Stop being ridiculous and actually present a counter argument rather than doing the discussion board equivelant of retreating behind something large and shouting out vague insults. Disagree with me all you like, but never tell me to keep my opinions to myself.

Scipio: you can stop that nonsense as well. Show me how many fathers well-meaning neighbours expect to stay home from work when their kid is sick (single parents and those with travelling spouses notwithstanding).
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Old 09.03.2017, 18:55
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Scipio: you can stop that nonsense as well. Show me how many fathers well-meaning neighbours expect to stay home from work when their kid is sick (single parents and those with travelling spouses notwithstanding).
Wow, that is an interesting reply to my comment. There is a reason why I was referring to the legal situation/Swiss constitution. There is simply no Swiss law that would discriminate against women, however there are laws that solely apply to the male citizens , e.g. you are obliged to do military service or to pay an additional tax of 3%, or you have to work until 65 (instead of 64). These are just two examples.
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  #517  
Old 09.03.2017, 18:55
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I just feel it slightly divisive: let's celebrate the chick day to show guys how mean they used to be (or are). And preferably justify our anger by it. It suits.
Wow!
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  #518  
Old 09.03.2017, 19:18
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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The historical view, though, is only convenient sometimes, it seems. Another thing, I wish women felt important enough for a decent celebration day without trying to feel important over somebody else's achievements. None of us were there at Suffrage time nor NASA pioneers. I just feel it slightly divisive: let's celebrate the chick day to show guys how mean they used to be (or are). And preferably justify our anger by it. It suits.
Double wow.
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  #519  
Old 09.03.2017, 19:47
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

I'll triple THAT

Not always easy for non-native speakers, I agree- but the use of 'chicks' and 'dudes' for grown-up women and men, by another grown-up, in education- gets my quadruple

Logging off btw, or 'leaving you to it' - doesn't mean 'leave' as such- just that it is sometimes better to withdraw temporarily, when things get unpleasant and personal. Glad I did. A difference of opinion is never ever a problem.
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  #520  
Old 09.03.2017, 19:47
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I've still not seen where you, or anyone else, has tried to explain why you think she's doing that.

As far as I'm aware she's never suggested that women shouldn't make themselves appear attractive to the opposite (or indeed, the same) sex, so I just don't see any evidence of double standards.

I'm assuming that you're just caught up in the popular myth of feminists being ugly man-haters who villify any woman that doesn't agree with their rather odd principles, or has the gall to - gasp! - conform to normal standards of attractiveness. EW campaigns for equal rights for women, internationally, and has nothing to do with that pareticular stereotyped image of so-called feminism.
As I said, young girls in 'guys' magazine get vilified for doing exactly what Emma Watson has done, that is the double standard but of course you don't see that unless it is a young girl from the latest reality TV show showing a bit of side boob in a lads magazine.

Bottom line, Emma Watson is using her body to promote her latest movie, some might say a form of prostitution.

See the double standards?

As for the bold part of your post, please don't assume anything.
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