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  #521  
Old 09.03.2017, 19:54
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Scipio: you can stop that nonsense as well. Show me how many fathers well-meaning neighbours expect to stay home from work when their kid is sick (single parents and those with travelling spouses notwithstanding).
I could be misinterpreting your post, are you really saying men are unlikely to stay at home with their children when they are sick?
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  #522  
Old 09.03.2017, 19:57
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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i feel the need to quote inigo montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Great post, Rufus.

This thread needs a pic of the wonderful Inigo Montoya.

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That's better, eh?
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  #523  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:00
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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men are unlikely to stay at home with their children when they are sick?
Only because men don't see the point in doing so.

Tom
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Old 09.03.2017, 20:00
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Wow, that is an interesting reply to my comment. There is a reason why I was referring to the legal situation/Swiss constitution. There is simply no Swiss law that would discriminate against women, however there are laws that solely apply to the male citizens , e.g. you are obliged to do military service or to pay an additional tax of 3%, or you have to work until 65 (instead of 64). These are just two examples.
You can lose your job / not be hired because you might get pregnant. Maternity leave is a joke. The school system is geared up to one parent, usually the mum, staying at home. Employment opportunities diminish if you've had a child. Opportunities narrow if they suspect you may give your uterus a go.

I imagine women lose out by much more than the 3%, economically speaking.

In the UK women have to work till we're 68. And?
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  #525  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:04
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Only because men don't see the point in doing so.

Tom
I know you are joking here, however if I am interpreting the RufusB's post correctly it is opinions like this that cause division, its an absolute bullshit statement based on the 1960's.

Equality works both ways, it doesn't fall under the feminism umbrella.
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  #526  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:05
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You can lose your job / not be hired because you might get pregnant. Maternity leave is a joke. The school system is geared up to one parent, usually the mum, staying at home. Employment opportunities diminish if you've had a child. Opportunities narrow if they suspect you may give your uterus a go.

I imagine women lose out by much more than the 3%, economically speaking.

In the UK women have to work till we're 68. And?
Hello, 2016 would like to welcome you from the 70's.
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  #527  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:09
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I could be misinterpreting your post, are you really saying men are unlikely to stay at home with their children when they are sick?
Good lord, no. I'm saying that it seems to be the expectation that the mother will, while the father goes to work. Anecdote alert: LR was ill. Mr Rufus stayed at home. My otherwise very nice neighbour waylaid me on my way home from work to tell me off for going. She only did it the once, mind.



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How about "I like giving flowers to women because it suits them"? I wonder if it will call for outrage I love flowers and dudes don't really get flowers from me since they do not seem into it. There are gifts they appreciate more, however.

The historical view, though, is only convenient sometimes, it seems. Another thing, I wish women felt important enough for a decent celebration day without trying to feel important over somebody else's achievements. None of us were there at Suffrage time nor NASA pioneers. I just feel it slightly divisive: let's celebrate the chick day to show guys how mean they used to be (or are). And preferably justify our anger by it. It suits.
Really? History is vital. Remembering is vital. It's only because of these women that the rest of have the opportunities we have. To say anything less is... outrageous.

You're an educator. With a daughter. The arguments have to be made or else it'll be the sodding Handmaid's Tale for real: the single most terrifying novel ever written.

And it's not bloody "chick" day. That's divisive. That undermines. Shame.
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  #528  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:10
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Hello, 2016 would like to welcome you from the 70's.
It's 2017. Which is why I left CH. I'm just calling it as I saw (and experienced) it.

You're misinterpreting.

I'm saying there are hangovers. And it is divisive. As long as there is a financial punishment for having a child then nothing will be truly equal.
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  #529  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:16
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You can lose your job / not be hired because you might get pregnant. Maternity leave is a joke. The school system is geared up to one parent, usually the mum, staying at home. Employment opportunities diminish if you've had a child. Opportunities narrow if they suspect you may give your uterus a go.

I imagine women lose out by much more than the 3%, economically speaking.

In the UK women have to work till we're 68. And?
Again, are those things you are referring part of the constitution?! If so, please refer me to the relevant parts.

Let me rephrase to exaggerate my statement: Nobody forces women to stay at home, nobody forces women to have kids. But I am forced to pay this additional tax, I am forced to work longer. And so is every other male citizen in this country. See the difference?

And btw, this is the EF Switzerland, frankly I don't care if women in the UK have to work until the age of 68.
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  #530  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:17
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Equality works both ways, it doesn't fall under the feminism umbrella.
This. Absolutely. Yes.

And yes, you misinterpreted. But never mind.
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  #531  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:22
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I know you are joking here
Actually, I'm not.

My kids still made it to adulthood, however.

Tom
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  #532  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:22
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's 2017. Which is why I left CH. I'm just calling it as I saw (and experienced) it.

You're misinterpreting.

I'm saying there are hangovers. And it is divisive. As long as there is a financial punishment for having a child then nothing will be truly equal.
My financial year is still 2016

Regardless of what you are debating there are always going to be 'hangovers', you cant change everyone but what you can do is not tar everyone with the same brush.

Sure guys used to be dicks when it came to the treatment of women (and some still are and vice versus), that was life, that was how it was supposed to be.

Life has thankfully moved on since then, you should remember that.
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  #533  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:23
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Chatting to one of the girls in my German class, early-mid 30s, at a guess, who was saying how at every interview she's attended she's been asked if or when she intends to have children.

Yes, in 2017, in Switzerland. She can tell them that it's none of their business, of course, but it clearly illustrates the thought process going on with the prospective employer, and pretty much proves that sexism and/or other discriminatory practices in hiring are still very much allow and well here.
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Old 09.03.2017, 20:24
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Again, are those things you are referring part of the constitution?! If so, please refer me to the relevant parts.

Let me rephrase to exaggerate my statement: Nobody forces women to stay at home, nobody forces women to have kids. But I am forced to pay this additional tax, I am forced to work longer. And so is every other male citizen in this country. See the difference?

And btw, this is the EF Switzerland, frankly I don't care if women in the UK have to work until the age of 68.

And this thread is about international women's day. That's the point. All women for every woman. You made a glib comment, I called you on it and now this? Talk about escalating nonsense.

Your could retire early. You could stay at home if you have kids. But until a fella can grow their own there is going to be an interrupted service.

I'm done. I have my own little international woman to spend time with. She needs a less bigoted, more tolerant world. It's my job to make sure she gets one.
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  #535  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:24
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Actually, I'm not.

My kids still made it to adulthood, however.

Tom
If your real life reflects your online life then sometimes its better left to a woman
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  #536  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:25
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Chatting to one of the girls in my German class, early-mid 30s, at a guess, who was saying how at every interview she's attended she's been asked if or when she intends to have children.

Yes, in 2017, in Switzerland. She can tell them that it's none of their business, of course, but it clearly illustrates the thought process going on with the prospective employer, and pretty much proves that sexism and/or other discriminatory practices in hiring are still very much allow and well here.
Sorry but I simply do not believe that unless the jobs have been for Swiss farm hands in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 09.03.2017, 20:27
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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My financial year is still 2016

Regardless of what you are debating there are always going to be 'hangovers', you cant change everyone but what you can do is not tar everyone with the same brush.

Sure guys used to be dicks when it came to the treatment of women (and some still are and vice versus), that was life, that was how it was supposed to be.

Life has thankfully moved on since then, you should remember that.
It's March, but whatever.

Hang on. I absolutely am not lumping all men together. What I have done is call a couple out on their comments. And it's a debate. Disagreement is allowed. Encouraged. The tarring has been done on both sides. I just refused to lie down and take it.

Please don't patronise me. Things may have changed for a lot of women but they haven't for a myriad more.
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  #538  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:28
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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And this thread is about international women's day. That's the point. All women for every woman. You made a glib comment, I called you on it and now this? Talk about escalating nonsense.

Your could retire early. You could stay at home if you have kids. But until a fella can grow their own there is going to be an interrupted service.

I'm done. I have my own little international woman to spend time with. She needs a less bigoted, more tolerant world. It's my job to make sure she gets one.
She will only get that through equality, which you absolutely agreed on, works both ways
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  #539  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:29
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Sorry but I simply do not believe that unless the jobs have been for Swiss farm hands in the middle of nowhere.
I was asked. For a teaching post. It was "masked" in an unofficial chat but it was still there. How many of you guys have ever been asked, in an interview, if you were planning to knock up your significant other in the near future?
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Old 09.03.2017, 20:45
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Sorry but I simply do not believe that unless the jobs have been for Swiss farm hands in the middle of nowhere.
You calling me a liar, or her? This was just today, by the way, so I remember it pretty well.

But there's clearly nothing to be done for you if you simply refuse to believe that this sort of thing happens. It's acknowledged by anyone I've ever spoken to about hiring in Switzerland, including unemployment insurance agents and job counselling professionals.

You need to get your head out of the sand if you think that women in CH are not disadvantaged in this and many other areas.
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