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Old 09.03.2017, 20:50
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Sorry but I simply do not believe that unless the jobs have been for Swiss farm hands in the middle of nowhere.
I have been asked that question in practically every interview I've had. Here and in the UK.

I've also been quizzed on childcare arrangements.

My husband has never been asked these questions in interview.

There's a thread on here with loads of such examples. If you're not female, you won't have experienced this.
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  #542  
Old 09.03.2017, 20:51
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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And this thread is about international women's day. That's the point. All women for every woman. You made a glib comment, I called you on it and now this? Talk about escalating nonsense.

Your could retire early. You could stay at home if you have kids. But until a fella can grow their own there is going to be an interrupted service.

I'm done. I have my own little international woman to spend time with. She needs a less bigoted, more tolerant world. It's my job to make sure she gets one.
Your kid will only grow up in a tolerant world, when people will start to accept that equality has to go both ways.

Even tough the name reads "international women's day" this thread was started to talk about why Switzerland is "backwards when it comes to celebrating women's achievements and seeking gender equality?" I feel like my comments about Swiss laws are very much in that spirit. You can call me a bigot all day long, I stand by the points I made.
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  #543  
Old 09.03.2017, 21:01
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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It's equality in general, not just 'sexual' and the giving of flowers does not only mean courtship.

Flowers have been given for thousands of years and their symbolism is profound.
It amused me to see that some people seem to believe that only the middle-class has these customs. Or, to be more specific, only the posh middle-class in Western countries.
And no, as you said, they are not given out of courtship on this particular day. It's a sign of appreciation, recognition, solidarity.
I guess some people won't believe till they see it anyway, no point in arguing anymore.
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  #544  
Old 09.03.2017, 21:12
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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If your real life reflects your online life then sometimes its better left to a woman
Yes, but there has to be one to leave it to.

My daughters made it to adulthood without getting pregnant, arrested, or wrecking a car or two (I only did the last myself).

They can cook, clean, and ride (and maintain) motorcycles, all learnt from me.

Pity they never learned to play guitar, I still have eight of them.

Tom
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  #545  
Old 09.03.2017, 21:17
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I have been asked that question in practically every interview I've had. Here and in the UK.

I've also been quizzed on childcare arrangements.

My husband has never been asked these questions in interview.
That's probably because men can't give birth
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  #546  
Old 09.03.2017, 21:32
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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That's probably because men can't give birth
You don't have to give birth to have childcare issues, though, do you?

I was once asked to guesstimate how many sick days could be attributed to my child per year.

Also I had to fight to get the full unemployment benefit due to what they deemed inadequate childcare (I had an agreement with the krippe to reduce the number of days until I was back in full time employment to save money but this apparently was regarded as unacceptable by the RAV).

I've been asked whether the childcare would be willing to extend its hours in case I had to work late.

Sometimes you get the feeling an employer feels they are doing you a big favour under duress by taking you on as an employee if you are "tainted" with offspring.
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Old 09.03.2017, 22:25
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Yes, but there has to be one to leave it to.

My daughters made it to adulthood without getting pregnant, arrested, or wrecking a car or two (I only did the last myself).

They can cook, clean, and ride (and maintain) motorcycles, all learnt from me.

Pity they never learned to play guitar, I still have eight of them.

Tom
...daughters or guitars ?
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  #548  
Old 10.03.2017, 00:01
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Bottom line, Emma Watson is using her body to promote her latest movie, some might say a form of prostitution.
What utter nonsense and who are the some? She is merely showing a bit of cleavage, so by any definition, she isn't topless.

Earlier in this thread, I made passing reference to a woman who was a hero of mine, having been a sex worked in her youth. Despite her having been a prostitute in her youth, she still received the respect and admiration of millions for her later work, and many awards including the Presidential Medal Of Freedom.
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Old 10.03.2017, 00:18
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Oh, don't you quadruple wow me

I am blunt, I know. But I totally mean it. Chick day - why not, love it. But to get all hung up on great women in the past because things still seem awfully difficult for some - I don't think it is true to the extent of justifying feminism these days anymore. People can get what they want. Everybody has it difficult when job interviewing, loads of managers running these interviews are probably jerks one way or another.

We are reducing woman's day to female parenting day, btw. Why? Self-righteousness?

I think women deserve respect not for being equal (of course we are), but for being different. It is a moment to celebrate...special unique things about us. Not the fact that now we prefer wearing pants (ugh I am glad I don't) or can lift as much weight as guys.

I feel this constant gender comparison only ensures low standards. I think people should go for the best they can go for..the best they can imagine. Not just for what the guy they know would ask for.
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Old 10.03.2017, 00:30
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Apparently, some still don't seem to get that equality is not about being the same.

Sex is biological. Biological differences exist. They always will. Gender is sociological. Differences here do not exist by default, but are learned/taught. They don't have to be there and can be eliminated. Some already have been eliminated.

Trying to achieve equal rights has absolutely nothing to do with denying biological differences. No one says or will ever say that men and women are exactly the same.

And lastly, women having the same right as men does not take anything away from men. Maybe even the opposite, it may well be a gain for society at large. The same holds true for a million other aspects in life and a million other groups. For example, gay marriage does not lessen the worth (or lack thereof these days, really) of heterosexual marriage. Increased access to education for minority groups does not decrease the relevancy of one's own education. Etc.pp.

But what's the point. Some men - very few, thankfully - just want to believe they're brutally disadvantaged by feminism and equality. No amount of explaining or reasoning will ever change that. Thankfully, here too everyone has a choice to simply not bother with people who choose to think this way
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  #551  
Old 10.03.2017, 00:48
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Increased access to education for minority groups does not decrease the relevancy of one's own education. Etc.pp.
This is actually not true, imho. Ask around who wants a degree from a school that gives free rides to selected few, in an academically unmerrited way. Increased access is a pretty blase term for devaluating assessment currency. Because it doesn't only mean help at the beginning, anymore. It translates to grade changes. This are the consequences of myopic policies, PC, identity politics and institutionalized inequality.
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  #552  
Old 10.03.2017, 01:08
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Ask around who wants a degree from a school that gives free rides to selected few, in an academically unmerrited way.
Do you have an example of a university that practises this?
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  #553  
Old 10.03.2017, 01:21
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

You can talk to anyone in the tertiary edu in the US, just mention grade change. I would not recommend it.

Jordan Peterson on gender and identity politics, affirmative action (that is pretty well related to "increase access to edu", quotas):

https://youtu.be/0WH3_uvz3bQ
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  #554  
Old 10.03.2017, 01:46
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You can talk to anyone in the tertiary edu in the US, just mention grade change. I would not recommend it.

Jordan Peterson on gender and identity politics, affirmative action (that is pretty well related to "increase access to edu", quotas):
Again, your frame of reference is the US. But you and I aren't from the US and don't live there, but it just so happens that a personal friend of mine teaches English at a university in Iowa, so I'll ask him.

Regarding Jordan Peterson, you're assumption appears to be that affirmative action is being refered to by Samaire's post. I honestly didn't read it that way.
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Increased access to education for minority groups does not decrease the relevancy of one's own education.
My immediate thought was scholarships and I couldn't understand why scholarships would be awarded to students who were, as you put it..."academically unmerrited".
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  #555  
Old 10.03.2017, 02:12
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Got an immediate response from my friend after sending him exact quotes of your last two posts on the matter. I'm now off to bed....

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It sounds like nonsense to me. Most of us work to help real people better their lives. I knew a poor young black woman who worked for next to nothing on the night shift. Took classes in the morning, and cared for her child and ill mother in the evening. She was on some state aid, but in no way a slacker. And she'd never be able to pay for an education. You used to wake her up for class each morning. We see those stories. Education is a true help up. It's not a guarantee, but people from the alt-right are merely hate-filled idiots who offer little to nothing that helps. I can tell you many real people stories where they bettered lives and contributed back to the world after getting an education.
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Old 10.03.2017, 06:53
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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And lastly, women having the same right as men does not take anything away from men. Maybe even the opposite, it may well be a gain for society at large. The same holds true for a million other aspects in life and a million other groups. For example, gay marriage does not lessen the worth (or lack thereof these days, really) of heterosexual marriage. Increased access to education for minority groups does not decrease the relevancy of one's own education. Etc.pp.

But what's the point. Some men - very few, thankfully - just want to believe they're brutally disadvantaged by feminism and equality. No amount of explaining or reasoning will ever change that. Thankfully, here too everyone has a choice to simply not bother with people who choose to think this way
Does it take anything away from feminism, if one accepts that men are suffering from inequality too?
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Old 10.03.2017, 07:32
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Does it take anything away from feminism, if one accepts that men are suffering from inequality too?
Inequality in what way? With each other? With women?

Are you talking about 'positive discrimination'?
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Old 10.03.2017, 07:42
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You don't have to give birth to have childcare issues, though, do you?

I was once asked to guesstimate how many sick days could be attributed to my child per year
But isn't that just because in the majority of couples (though not all) the mother is more likely to stay home with the kids than the father?
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Old 10.03.2017, 08:13
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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But isn't that just because in the majority of couples (though not all) the mother is more likely to stay home with the kids than the father?
On the whole, yes. Mothers tend to be the ones that stay home with a sick child, although in our case that's not true because my husband has a more flexible working environment and can work from home more easily than I can so on the rare occasion of a sick child, he can stay home.

The clumsy assumption that it's fine for a potential employer to ask a woman to "guesstimate" how often she'll be off due to sick kids is pretty dire and not the sort of place I would want to work.

Can you imagine as a man being asked "do you consider yourself to be in good health? How often do you think you'll go off sick in the next twelve months?"

I'm not even sure it's legal for them to ask such a thing but it seems fine to ask the same question of a woman about her children.

Apparently it's not legal to ask whether you plan to get pregnant but that doesn't seem to stop them.
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Old 10.03.2017, 08:14
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Oh, don't you quadruple wow me

I am blunt, I know. But I totally mean it. Chick day - why not, love it. But to get all hung up on great women in the past because things still seem awfully difficult for some - I don't think it is true to the extent of justifying feminism these days anymore. People can get what they want. Everybody has it difficult when job interviewing, loads of managers running these interviews are probably jerks one way or another.

We are reducing woman's day to female parenting day, btw. Why? Self-righteousness?

I think women deserve respect not for being equal (of course we are), but for being different. It is a moment to celebrate...special unique things about us. Not the fact that now we prefer wearing pants (ugh I am glad I don't) or can lift as much weight as guys.

I feel this constant gender comparison only ensures low standards. I think people should go for the best they can go for..the best they can imagine. Not just for what the guy they know would ask for.
Would you please stop calling it "Chick Day"? It trivialises the fight for equality and, frankly, it makes you look petty.
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