Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #621  
Old 11.03.2017, 20:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Aeneas- this was supposed to be a thread on IWD. If you wanted to discuss any discrimination against men (and I do agree it exists in many forms) - why did you not open a separate thread after the initial exchange?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #622  
Old 11.03.2017, 20:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
I never cited anything to do with you husband. I cited, and quoted now about four times, the following post:
Quote:

Inequality in what way? With each other? With women?

Are you talking about 'positive discrimination'?
That is clearly dismissive of the entire topic of discrimination against men.
No, it isn't. You've inferred a particular tone from the questions, but questions are often asked in order to get answers, not simply as thinly-disguised disagreements. As a disinterested (in this part of the discussion) party it looks to me like you're deliberately choosing to (mis?)interpret them as disagreement.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #623  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post

People have crass ways here when singling out individual posters, unfortunately.

It has been a good debate, otherwise.
Bang on the money again, MC. Hopefully he's clear on it all now...
Reply With Quote
  #624  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:23
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,252
Groaned at 392 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 19,932 Times in 10,387 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Lol, he singled out nobody. I read his stuff as a defence against those who keep woman-lib issues turning into guys bashing.

That's what made the debate good, actually. Why turn chick-day into solely mothering issue or guy-bashing parade. Suffrage related threads often offer just that and it is pretty boring.

Last edited by MusicChick; 11.03.2017 at 21:39.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #625  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
Lol, he singled out nobody. I read his stuff as a defence against those who keep woman-lib issues turn into guys bashing.

That's what made the debate good, actually. Why turn chick-day into solely mothering issue or guy-bashing parade. Suffrage related threads often offer just that and it is pretty boring.
You are supposed to be a mod.

Earlier in the thread he picked on RufusB and basically chased her off the thread with his bullying, yesterday he started on me inventing his own fantasy off a single benign comment I made in the form of a question which was actually nothing to do with him, then wouldn't leave it alone despite my repeated and ever-simplified replies that he had got it wrong. That's basically trolling, in case you didn't know.

If you think this thread is all about "guy-bashing" and "mothering" I have to ask "WTF?". It's about Aeneas trying to win some self-proclaimed battle for some reason best known to himself.

Nobody has been able to actively discuss women's issues because it has been persistently derailed by a guy who wants to make the thread all about himself.

You know what? You and Aeneas are welcome to it - you can feed off each other and pat each other on the back with whatever weird agenda you have. Congratulations.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #626  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:43
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,252
Groaned at 392 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 19,932 Times in 10,387 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Calm down and don't be mad when he feeds you back your own medicine.

Let's get back to chick day. From as many angles as possible
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #627  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
Lol, he singled out nobody. I read his stuff as a defence against those who keep woman-lib issues turning into guys bashing.

That's what made the debate good, actually. Why turn chick-day into solely mothering issue or guy-bashing parade. Suffrage related threads often offer just that and it is pretty boring.
Who did any of that? What are you banging on about? Your repeated 'chick-day' despite many request not to demean, is clearly provocative. Sad.

Who is anti-men? Certainly not me for sure. And I am totally prepared to admit and discuss that there is discrimination against men, which I am happy to discuss elsewhere, as said.

As for this ridiculous dichotomy between left and right with regard to 'feminism' (whatever that means, to you or me- which is probably VERY different) is so plainly outdated. I am not a leftie, and I imagine neither is Sandgrounder (whom I do not know) and neither are a few of the posters on this thread whom I know personally. NOTHING to do with 'left' or 'right' - I am a social democrat and have always been- for instance.

And NO I will not discuss 'chick day' - I no longer have hens and it's too early in season FFS.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #628  
Old 11.03.2017, 21:59
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,252
Groaned at 392 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 19,932 Times in 10,387 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
Who did any of that? What are you banging on about? Your repeated 'chick-day' despite many request not to demean, is clearly provocative. Sad.

Who is anti-men? Certainly not me for sure. And I am totally prepared to admit and discuss that there is discrimination against men, which I am happy to discuss elsewhere, as said.

As for this ridiculous dichotomy between left and right with regard to 'feminism' (whatever that means, to you or me- which is probably VERY different) is so plainly outdated. I am not a leftie, and I imagine neither is Sandgrounder (whom I do not know) and neither are a few of the posters on this thread whom I know personally. NOTHING to do with 'left' or 'right' - I am a social democrat and have always been- for instance.

And NO I will not discuss 'chick day' - I no longer have hens and it's too early in season FFS.
What you wrote is interesting. I am not sure, tbh, what left/right politics you mentioned have to do with celebrating womanhood and why you brought that up.

Chick is an honor term..as you read before, it can simply refer to women, it is unecessary getting hurt over it. A bunch of people use chicks/guys without an age reference, and guys without a gender reference, btw. The way you interpret it and decide to be offended does not imply it was used as intentionally offensive. I think you know it, policing people's vocab is an uncooth aspect of a mod role, no idea why would anyone deliberately sing up for it
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #629  
Old 11.03.2017, 22:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 5,317
Groaned at 58 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,696 Times in 1,612 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

This is all just wierd, leave it be.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank SOBEIT for this useful post:
  #630  
Old 12.03.2017, 00:42
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 699
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 417 Posts
scipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
Aeneas- this was supposed to be a thread on IWD. If you wanted to discuss any discrimination against men (and I do agree it exists in many forms) - why did you not open a separate thread after the initial exchange?
Did you read the opening post? It ends with: "Why is Switzerland apparently so backward in coming forward, so to speak, when it comes to celebrating women's achievements and seeking gender equality?"

As far as I interpret the last part, this thread is also open for discussion related to gender equality in general - or is that only limited to issues related to women?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank scipio for this useful post:
  #631  
Old 12.03.2017, 07:23
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,126
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,488 Times in 925 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
Inequality in what way? With each other? With women?

Are you talking about 'positive discrimination'?
My son just turned 18 and is required to sign up for selective service. He is denied access to many federal programs/ funding and faces criminal prosecution if he does not.

My daughter does not have to register - BY LAW.

I don't see a lot of "feminists" on you tube pushing for equality on this point.


Update: apparently I took the response in the same way as many others, so my apology for not reading through 3 further pages of back pedaling bullshit before posting this moot issue.

There is no male discrimination. Its the US, so doesn't apply here. UK English isn't my mother tongue, so how could I understand...

Last edited by VFR on top; 12.03.2017 at 07:46.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post:
  #632  
Old 12.03.2017, 08:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
You are supposed to be a mod.

Earlier in the thread he picked on RufusB and basically chased her off the thread with his bullying, yesterday he started on me inventing his own fantasy off a single benign comment I made in the form of a question which was actually nothing to do with him, then wouldn't leave it alone despite my repeated and ever-simplified replies that he had got it wrong. That's basically trolling, in case you didn't know.

If you think this thread is all about "guy-bashing" and "mothering" I have to ask "WTF?". It's about Aeneas trying to win some self-proclaimed battle for some reason best known to himself.

Nobody has been able to actpively discuss women's issues because it has been persistently derailed by a guy who wants to make the thread all about himself.

You know what? You and Aeneas are welcome to it - you can feed off each other and pat each other on the back with whatever weird agenda you have. Congratulations.

I am back. I bit through my tongue.

I second everything Sandgrounder says.

The insistence that she stated that men are not discriminated against is a persistent mis-reading. I took that post to be one asking for additional clarification: it was not a blanket refutation. Disagreeing with her when she offered this additional explanation is, at best, unhelpfully pedantic. At worst, well... it's not doubt "ad hominem" generating.

If laws that discriminate against men are an issue (and they clearly are) which makes sense as any discrimination is beyond shite, why isn't there a parallel thread so that this one doesn't keep descending into a bun fight?

MC - I've said It before and I'll say it again, if history and social precedent bores you then that bothers me more than I can say.


Internationally, the treatment and rights of women vary to a breathtaking, terrifying extent. Internationally, the laws benefiting, or otherwise, men also vary widely. Personally I do not understand the lack of decent paternity (and maternity, come to that) leave in CH whee, in the event of a future separation, both parents have equal rights. Equality for parents should begin when he/she is born. I don't understand why couples are economically disadvantaged if they get married.

Anyway. My Sunday two penn'orth.

Last edited by RufusB; 12.03.2017 at 09:32. Reason: Clarification
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #633  
Old 12.03.2017, 08:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 699
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 417 Posts
scipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
If laws that discriminate against men are an issue (and they clearly are) which makes sense as any discrimination is beyond shite, why isnt there a parallel thread so that this one doesn't keep descending into a bun fight?
I feel that the sad truth is, because nobody would care. In the same way as the media and politicians don't give it much attention. One has to raise his voice, where there is a chance that it will get heard and understood. I felt that a thread, where people engage in seeking gender equality would suit well do discuss and exchange these thoughts. I guess I was wrong in that regard.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank scipio for this useful post:
  #634  
Old 12.03.2017, 15:35
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 10,747 Times in 4,739 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
I felt that a thread, where people engage in seeking gender equality would suit well do discuss and exchange these thoughts. I guess I was wrong in that regard.
The only respect where you were misguided is that and feeling that people don't care enough about sexism towards men, particularly regarding child care issues. I know quite a few lone male parents and a couple have hit brick walls in the wrk place where they had to work through whether the issue they were encountering was specifically relating to lone parents, or was actually prejudicial against fathers. However, it worth a seperate thread.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #635  
Old 12.03.2017, 17:05
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: 2.72548 K
Posts: 1,597
Groaned at 40 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,559 Times in 774 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
You should have left it at the meme. At that point you achieved a state of grace. By continuing, you're now playing on your opponent's terms. You need to attend one of speakeron's "How to win the internet" motivational speeches. (If only such a thing existed...)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank speakeron for this useful post:
  #636  
Old 12.03.2017, 18:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 699
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 916 Times in 417 Posts
scipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond reputescipio has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
The only respect where you were misguided is that and feeling that people don't care enough about sexism towards men,
Ehm, no. Quite a few responses in here have shown the contrary, being hostile rude or ridiculing (e.g. post nr. 564, 565). But as you gave both of them a thumbs up, I guess we might disagree on that one

And again, it's not my problem if people don't read the thread opener. It quite clearly states that this thread should also address gender equality in general.

PS: I did not talk about child care issues at all. I talked about sexism related to military, pension age, high school attendance etc.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank scipio for this useful post:
  #637  
Old 12.03.2017, 18:10
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,252
Groaned at 392 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 19,932 Times in 10,387 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
MC - I've said It before and I'll say it again, if history and social precedent bores you then that bothers me more than I can say.
Good to see some diversity and flouncing members visiting again
Let's not turn this place into a pretentious safe space that does not let diverse voices speak.

History does not bore, people feeling they need to push their historical figures against others, thinking we all have the same (because we are women) - that bores me. Echo chamber bore me. Those who raise their moralizing finger with the ostentatious spiel: "you, as a mother, teacher, mod and most of all, a woman, must certainly be on the same page as the group think". A pretty selectively chick group think, mind you.

That is the social precedence that is pretty worrysome, tbh, and more worth to think about than some people who lived 100 years ago. I respect them and of course pay hommage as much as I can. But virtue signalling, imho, is not enough. Guys are being pushed around. Loads of them are gentlemen and won't say anything. I think it is unhealthy for everyone and sets a precedence I dislike.

What does not bore me is the fact we are doing well - we actually have guys participating in a debate over int. chick day! Bravo to us and their thick skin. The debate is better the more povs we are able to listen to. Hence me not liking this push for unisono opinions.

I also think we do not need to participate in opression olympics, speaking on behalf of others (dead, too) because apparently our heroes have suffered the most. I find this kind competition futile. Looking towards future instead and what every one of us can do is better than regurtitating historical injustice over and over.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 12.03.2017 at 18:34.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #638  
Old 12.03.2017, 18:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Quote:
View Post
Good to see some diversity and flouncing members visiting again
Let's not turn this place into a pretentious safe space that does not let diverse voices speak.
Now that's your very definition of an Ad Nauseum thingummy, yes?

I. Do. Not. Flounce. Clear? I do, however, object to passive aggressive bullying tactics wrapped up in stream-of-consciousness utterances designed, or not, to tie the reader up in knots without actually saying all that much new or of value.

I object to pretty much everything you've just posted as, as you have clearly stated, is my right. I did not moralise, I merely offered a point of view. You don't like it? Fine. You like it? Also fine.

You use the word pretentious. Why?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #639  
Old 12.03.2017, 19:36
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

No flouncing here either.

Sometimes when a discussion turns sour and turns to personal attacks and clear mis-interpretation of what is said- and some people can't make the difference between sweeping statements, generalisations and personal pov- then it is best to withdraw, go and see friends or take the dogs for a walk. Simple.

I'm glad I did, both.

Last edited by Odile; 12.03.2017 at 19:56.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #640  
Old 13.03.2017, 00:39
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,004
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 10,747 Times in 4,739 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

Just remembered why I've never been aware of Women's Day before this thread. It clashes with National Pie Week and I'm a Pie eater.

https://www.awarenessdays.co.uk/awar...07/2017-03-06/
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
equality, film, gender equality, international women's day, women




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
International Women's Day Guest International affairs/politics 6 10.03.2014 13:23
International Women's Day smtrickett Social events 0 04.03.2013 20:26
Celebrating Valentine's Day .. or not BrokenWings88 General off-topic 20 11.02.2013 15:06
International Women's Day TheChumaFamily Other/general 2 27.02.2012 15:32


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0