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Old 20.05.2015, 15:17
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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Do you have the evidence to support these statements?
The acute oral LD50 in the rat is:
Glyphosate: 5,600 mg/kg
Vinegar (acetic acid): 3350 mg/kg
Salt: 3000 mg/kg
Caffeine: 200 - 400 mg/kg
Ethanol: 7000 - 9000 mg/kg


Glyphosate is a Group 2A carcinogen
Alcohol is a Group 1 carcinogen
Caffeine is a Group 3 carcinogen (so contrary to what I stated above, my apologies)


Group 1
This category is used when there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans. Exceptionally, an agent may be placed in this category when evidence of carcinogenicity in humans is less than sufficient but there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals and strong evidence in exposed humans that the agent acts through a relevant mechanism of carcinogenicity.


Group 2A means that the agent is probably carcinogenic to humans. This category is used when there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals. Limited evidence means that a positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer but that other explanations for the observations (called chance, bias, or confounding) could not be ruled out. This category is also used when there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and strong data on how the agent causes cancer.






Sources:
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2014/06...nd-glyphosate/


http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...ate-ext.html#1


http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/i...hVolume112.pdf


http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/CAFEINE.pdf


http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf


http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamb...ionale0706.php
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  #22  
Old 20.05.2015, 15:58
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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The acute oral LD50 in the rat is:
Glyphosate: 5,600 mg/kg
Vinegar (acetic acid): 3350 mg/kg
Salt: 3000 mg/kg
Caffeine: 200 - 400 mg/kg
Ethanol: 7000 - 9000 mg/kg


Glyphosate is a Group 2A carcinogen
Alcohol is a Group 1 carcinogen
Caffeine is a Group 3 carcinogen (so contrary to what I stated above, my apologies)


Group 1
This category is used when there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in humans. Exceptionally, an agent may be placed in this category when evidence of carcinogenicity in humans is less than sufficient but there is sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals and strong evidence in exposed humans that the agent acts through a relevant mechanism of carcinogenicity.


Group 2A means that the agent is probably carcinogenic to humans. This category is used when there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals. Limited evidence means that a positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer but that other explanations for the observations (called chance, bias, or confounding) could not be ruled out. This category is also used when there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and strong data on how the agent causes cancer.






Sources:
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2014/06...nd-glyphosate/


http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...ate-ext.html#1


http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/i...hVolume112.pdf


http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/CAFEINE.pdf


http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf


http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Preamb...ionale0706.php
Well, if that's the case, pardon me for using it on my weeds without remorse.


I'll keep vinegar and salt for my salads, thank you.
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  #23  
Old 20.05.2015, 16:21
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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The acute oral LD50 in the rat is:
Glyphosate: 5,600 mg/kg
Vinegar (acetic acid): 3350 mg/kg
Salt: 3000 mg/kg
Caffeine: 200 - 400 mg/kg
Ethanol: 7000 - 9000 mg/kg
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Well, if that's the case, pardon me for using it on my weeds without remorse.

I'll keep vinegar and salt for my salads, thank you.
I don't think you need to worry too much about the vinegar is it is generally only about 5% acetic acid
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Old 20.05.2015, 16:25
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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I don't think you need to worry too much about the vinegar is it is generally only about 5% acetic acid
Or the salt. Scaling up those LD50 figures, I'd have to eat nearly 350g of salt in one go to have a 50% chance of dying from it.
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Old 20.05.2015, 16:43
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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Or the salt. Scaling up those LD50 figures, I'd have to eat nearly 350g of salt in one go to have a 50% chance of dying from it.
!!!

a) You're a rat?!

and

b) You weigh nearly 117 kg?!?

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Old 20.05.2015, 17:01
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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!!!

a) You're a rat?!

and

b) You weigh nearly 117 kg?!?

a) Better ask the missus

b) Not quite . Rounded-up to nearest 10kg


BTW, I'd just to thank Uno's Garden for my 100th groan (no surprise there) I'll wear it as a badge of honour for debunking pseudoscience and quackery.
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Old 20.05.2015, 17:54
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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Glyphosate is officially less toxic than caffeine or alcohol and has a lower carcinogenic rating than both. More business pandering to pseudoscientific nonsense and hysteria.

And before anyone cites the Seralini study at me (you know who you are); the results of that study have been debunked and the study withdrawn.
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Glyphosate is also less toxic than vinegar and salt
Incredible!!!

You have absolutely no idea how glyphosate works! Absolutely No Idea. And you claim to be a biochemist.

Before you make these bold statements about Glyphosate, I suggest you do a bit of research, afterall, all the papers are at your fingertips, aren't they?
I will give you a few clues to start you research: Shikimate pathway, Chelating.

Are you, by any chance, Patrick Moore?
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  #28  
Old 20.05.2015, 17:57
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

UG, you're hilarious. Try some science now and again.

Regarding the Patrick Moore video, would you drink a cup of an unidentified liquid substance offered by a stranger?

BTW, these aren't "Bold statements"; they are verifiable, reproducible scientific facts. Just because they don't fit your misguided agenda, doesn't make them not true.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:00
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

No I wouldn't. So if I buy an unopened bottle of it- and bring it to you- seal unbroken- you will drink a glass of it. Let's make a date- I'll bring the crew.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:05
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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No I wouldn't. So if I buy an unopened bottle of it- and bring it to you- seal unbroken- you will drink a glass of it. Let's make a date- I'll bring the crew.
OK, you bring a half-litre of Glyphosate and I'll bring a half litre of acetic acid for you, or even a couple hundred grammes of table salt.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:06
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

A cup of fresh urine is pretty harmless. I wouldn't volunteer to drink that either.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:08
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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Incredible!!!

You have absolutely no idea how glyphosate works! Absolutely No Idea. And you claim to be a biochemist.
Cool, you're an expert on biochemistry and pathophysiology, now! Excellent -- could you please explain to me how glyphosate works? Thanks!!

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Before you make these bold statements about Glyphosate, I suggest you do a bit of research, afterall, all the papers are at your fingertips, aren't they?
I will give you a few clues to start you research: Shikimate pathway, Chelating.
Tell me more about your approach to research. Does it start with "Go" and end with "ogle", by any chance?

Just for the record, Uno'sGarden, what exactly are your qualifications and what do you do for a living? I'm just curious as I place a high value on knowledge and credentials when it comes to making claims.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:13
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

I couldn't drink half a litre of anything in one go- but the interview said 'a glass' - I'll happily drink a glass of apple vinegar anyday.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:14
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

In actual fact, the standard dosign regime for RoundUp is equivalent to 83 mg per square metre for Soy bean crops. That's not very much, really it isn't. You'd have to eat at least 3.5 tonnes of treated beans to even approach the LD50.
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:16
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

Who knew a change of heart by Coop would become so much fun
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:16
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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In actual fact, the standard dosign regime for RoundUp is equivalent to 83 mg per square metre for Soy bean crops. That's not very much, really it isn't. You'd have to eat at least 3.5 tonnes of treated beans to even approach the LD50.
I think you would experience many other problems long before reaching 3.5 tonnes, and so would those around you!
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Old 20.05.2015, 18:59
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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Are you, by any chance, Patrick Moore?
It was foolish of Patrick Moore to make an unbounded statement; however, any substance ingested in excess is toxic and potentially fatal. (The LD50 for water in humans is around 80mg/kg -- if a group of people each weighing 75kg were to drink 6L of water each, in one go, one would expect half of them to die as a result.) PaddyG provided the LD50 of Roundup (glyphosate) above:

Quote:
The acute oral LD50 in the rat is:
Glyphosate: 5,600 mg/kg
I'd guess that Patrick Moore is a bit of a big lad, maybe 100kg, so he'd have a 50-50 chance of snuffing it if he ingested 560g of glyphosate*.

Glyphosate has a density of 1.70g/mL; a 250mL glass of Roundup Lawn & Garden (18% glyphosate) therefore contains about 77g of glyphosate -- less than 15% of LD50. However, a quart (nearly a litre) of Roundup would exceed 50% of LD50 and a quart of pure glyphosate would be more than three times LD50.

So Mr Moore would be unlikely to die from drinking a glass of Roundup. But that's not to say that he wouldn't be unwell for a while. However, the point is that no-one is ever going to ingest anything close to a glass of glyphosate in their entire lifetime, so the panic over the unproven putative toxicity of the chemical is completely unfounded.


*But Mr Moore is not a rat -- I've no idea how toxicity of glyphosate scales to humans, but generally we are much more tolerant than rats of toxins.

Last edited by 22 yards; 20.05.2015 at 19:38. Reason: Highlighted toxicity of water and added a few more calculations
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Old 20.05.2015, 19:55
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

Well a fat man might be able to cope with it much better than bees. Or is it harmless to bees?
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Old 20.05.2015, 20:17
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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In actual fact, the standard dosign regime for RoundUp is equivalent to 83 mg per square metre for Soy bean crops. That's not very much, really it isn't. You'd have to eat at least 3.5 tonnes of treated beans to even approach the LD50.
I think you would experience many other problems long before reaching 3.5 tonnes, and so would those around you!
... which is getting us back to another interesting thread.
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Old 20.05.2015, 20:31
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Re: Coop to stop selling Glyphosate

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It was foolish of Patrick Moore to make an unbounded statement; however, any substance ingested in excess is toxic and potentially fatal. (The LD50 for water in humans is around 80mg/kg -- if a group of people each weighing 75kg were to drink 6L of water each, in one go, one would expect half of them to die as a result.)
Those 6 liters are correct, but that makes 80 grams/kg, not 80 mg/kg.
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