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Old 25.05.2015, 22:05
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Being on public transport appears to bring out the worst in people.
Or it can have the effect of being drunk...what I mean is, sometimes you'll be on a packed train and look at other people around you, then start a conversation as if you all seem to be trapped in a snowed in chalet and won't be rescued for a few days (if that). (Alright, alright, I admit that the other possible scenario arising from such a situation could be more Lord of the Flies, i.e. segmentation and at war with one another).

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Have experienced this a lot when I lived in Geneva and Lausanne. People squeezing into already packed trains like their lives depended on it Unfortunately many people nowadays have deplorable manners.
Seems like a case of live and let live, i.e. I am not going after you specifically, but we all have to live, so deal with it. Well, that's not my approach but that's kind of what I'm observing.

It's a funny contrast of this situation to my home city in Australia. There are some bus lines which are so busy during rush hours, that even with one bus every fifteen minutes, buses can get extremely crowded. Not quite crush-intense (trains are prone to this), but it does mean that even the physical reality dawns on people (and finally, the bus driver) and people waiting at the next and subsequent stops are left behind to wait for the next service.

The main complaints are not that people have an uncomfortable ride on the bus, but that there aren't enough buses. (At least they are air conditioned and fairly well ventilated).

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Maybe we need a crash-course lesson in manners from Japanese commuters who survive hellishly packed trains on a daily basis.
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They do it by groping each other sexually. Maybe that's what was missing on this train.
There's not much manners as such in Japanese culture in this respect. You get on a train by hook or by crook. At busy stations, train company assistants with white gloves help people onto trains by pushing the human mass into the carriages so that the doors can shut. When you are on the train, it's best not to think much at all. Don't think who you're touching, don't think what you're touching, don't care about what you're smelling, don't worry if you can't touch the floor, just exist, don't move and shut up. And try not to play with your mobile phone. It is not uncommon at stops to see the carriage empty by about 15-25% as they let people out, then the mass goes back in again and are repacked for the next station.

The Japanese put up with it because they are used to it, and are also time sensitive. Also, there really aren't as many seats on common commuter trains in Japan compared to in Switzerland (i.e. the trains only have seats on the sides of the carriage in a straight line parallel to the length of the carriage, not the 2-by-2 seating in most Swiss train carriages, which means the most space for people to fit in the carriage by standing).

The whole thing about groping was apparently cases of men groping women on Japanese commuter trains. This lead to the introduction of "pink carriages" where only women were allowed to ride in those carriages (a woman, of course, could still ride in the standard carriages, but she had a choice).

Overall, I see very little with respect to manners as to what the Japanese can teach us. The notion of not being a(n) <expletive of your choice> is pretty universal.


Another "crush ride in trains" that's rather harrowing at times is the RER Paris during the peak. Again, no officials with white gloves to shove in - it's all done by each other. Still have to wait for the next train(s) more often than not even with the crush loads. Finally, unlike Japan, you have to worry about anyone on board with itchy fingers going for your belongings.

Last edited by SoftBedPlease; 26.05.2015 at 00:44.
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  #22  
Old 26.05.2015, 11:12
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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To the woman who was on the packed to the brim train between Cully and Lausanne yesterday, around 18h50: you were sitting with your 6-7 year old child next to you, staring at crushed passengers, smiling. It was critical: you cannot possibly have missed the elderly gentleman who was passing out or the man standing right next to you with a toddler in his arms, his wife sobbing quietly behind him because people could hardly breathe.


Not for one second did you think that by taking your child on your lap you would have made a big difference to the suffering of these people. No, you pretended the world did not exist and continued babbling (in Russian?). Had I been a bit nearer and able to move, I would have lifted you off your seat and taught you some manners. Shame on you!
Were these two girls the only ones who were seated in that train? You have all my understanding, but what strikes me here is the fact that you seemed to have focused your entire outrage on this silly woman. Surely there could have been at least a few other people who could have offered their seats?
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Old 26.05.2015, 11:20
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

The ones with their headphones on, busy texting/talking on their phones ("I'm on the train... yes, I will be there in about 10 minutes ... ok yes risotto would be nice...no, but did you see her shoes?... ") as they were the only ones who could reach theirs 'cos they were sitting comfortably?
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Old 26.05.2015, 11:23
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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but what strikes me here is the fact that you seemed to have focused your entire outrage on this silly woman.
Because she was talking in Russian. She may be even related to Putin; and regardless she surely is an evil commie.

Seriously now -> the last person in this train that should make space is probably a young child (or mother with a child). I just can not believe that there was noone else in the train not able to stand.
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Old 26.05.2015, 11:39
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Seriously now -> the last person in this train that should make space is probably a young child (or mother with a child). I just can not believe that there was noone else in the train not able to stand.
No, it's common courtesy to sit your young child on your lap if the train or bus is full.

So now you know.
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Old 26.05.2015, 11:52
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Seriously now -> the last person in this train that should make space is probably a young child (or mother with a child). I just can not believe that there was noone else in the train not able to stand.

I agree with you. Although, in situations like this you'd have expected her to "fraternise" with the person who had a child in his arms and make some room next to her. But, technically, she didn't do anything wrong.
I've seen worse. A (youngish) Swiss woman putting her legs on the arm rests of the seat in front of her, in a cinema, where a child was seated (I'm surprised the parents didn't say anything, although they looked very puzzled at her). Things like that you know. Nothing surprises me anymore.
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Old 26.05.2015, 11:59
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Nothing surprises me anymore.
There's a large obsession in this country for people putting their belongings on the spare seat next to them.

OK if the carriage / bus is pretty empty. When it's burgeoning, it would be a bit rich to do so.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:03
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Time for Ecopop 2.0?
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:04
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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There's a large obsession in this country for people putting their belongings on the spare seat next to them.

OK if the carriage / bus is pretty empty. When it's burgeoning, it would be a bit rich to do so.
That's one thing, it's like saying don't sit next to me or smth. .... of course, a bad thing.
But I was talking about a relatively young Swiss cow, sorry, lady, who put her feet (she was wearing boots, ok) on the arm rests of the seat in front of her in a cinema, where a child was laying his arms. I don't know if you can picture that, but I was seated behind that child, next to her, and saw (and listened to her bubbling) everything. I was mesmerised/mortified/outraged. And yes, she was a youngish Swiss cow (pardon my French and all my excuses to the wonderful creatures named cows), I'm 100% sure.
Btw, the cinema was more than half empty! She could have moved some place else if she wanted to rest her legs....plenty of empty seat rows you know.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:08
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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And yes, she was a youngish Swiss cow (pardon my French and all my excuses to the wonderful creatures named cows), I'm 100% sure.
You're usually the first to jump up and down, frothing at the mouth, fingers bashing the keyboard as hard as they can as soon as someone even hint that someone or something comes from the eastern part of Europe, and yet your own head is full of xenophobic vitriol.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:14
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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You're usually the first to jump up and down, frothing at the mouth, fingers bashing the keyboard as hard as they can as soon as someone even hint that someone or something comes from the eastern part of Europe, and yet your own head is full of xenophobic vitriol.
Don't be nasty.
Believe me I couldn't care less of what she was, I was outraged. My natural tendency was to think, oh , hmm, another auslander... But then listen to her bubbling....I was very dissappointed, as if she should have to behave or something. (high expectations you see)

Btw, sorry you think that way, for me personally is not important where people come from as long as they are nice.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:21
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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They do it by groping each other sexually. Maybe that's what was missing on this train.
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Adrian, Adrian, what kind of Websites are you frequenting?
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The Japanese put up with it because they are used to it, and are also time sensitive.

Girls have been known to quietly tolerate it because there is not much they can do. They can't even turn around to see who is groping them. I think I might have seen it, but could not have said much anyway as I had someone's armpit in my mouth.

To avoid, just don't take the bus or train.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:24
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

What is it with posting on the internet about a real life situation that didn't go according to plan?

Could have, should have, would have. Save it for your real lives. Be brave out there. Caring and heartfelt. Understanding and firm when required to.

The digital world isn't your confessional.
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  #34  
Old 26.05.2015, 12:28
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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What is it with posting on the internet about a real life situation that didn't go according to plan?

Could have, should have, would have. Save it for your real lives. Be brave out there. Caring and heartfelt. Understanding and firm when required to.

The digital world isn't your confessional.
I agree but sometimes it looks like it's actually not your business, although you really really wish you have said something! Thus....threads and posts like this on EF.
I usually keep for me observations like this, already feel sorry I let one out in the ether. I should have known better.
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:31
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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The digital world isn't your confessional.


Recite the Swiss national anthem 3 times. Give up your seat on the bus 5 times, and go in peace my children.
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  #36  
Old 26.05.2015, 12:32
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Why isn't this in the complaints corner?
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Old 26.05.2015, 12:48
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Ohhh I am not surprised anymore, honestly. But still there are nice people around, though I rarely encounter them- last week, I was waiting for the bus, I was standing close to a bench. One old lady stopped also in front of the bench and one boy (14 or 15 ) asked her if she would like to sit down. She said ''no thank you'' but he insisted and then she sat on the bench. It was nice to see that this boy wasn't on his phone and actually paid attention to what is going on around him.

Few days ago, I had a nasty cold, I could barely walk but had to go out anyway. I was in the tram, searching for a free seat. Nothing was free so I was trying very hard to stand. But then I noticed what looked to be a free seat..which wasn't... because it was a big knapsack on it. So everybody was standing and this guy had his knapsack on the seat (mind you, the knapsack had space in front of this guy's feet). Usually, I wouldn't have said anything, but I was so sick and asked the guy to put his knapsack down so I can sit. He looked so annoyed, but I didn't care, I had to sit down. He moved it, (slowly, kind of ''oh you want to sit down..wait 1 hr) and I sat down immediately.

Speaking of putting your feet on the chair in front of you- yesterday I was on a bus and one girl (15 yrs-16 yrs) put her feet on chair in front of her and one man (in his 50's) told her to put her feet down. She looked at him like (''why are you telling me to put my feet down?) and looked clearly annoyed but she put her feet down in the end. I think she didn't expect that someone can actually teach her manners.

I think people shouldn't be afraid to say something, but of course, sometimes, giving the situation, is better to shut up.
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  #38  
Old 26.05.2015, 13:03
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Speaking of putting your feet on the chair in front of you- yesterday I was on a bus and one girl (15 yrs-16 yrs) put her feet on chair in front of her and one man (in his 50's) told her to put her feet down. She looked at him like (''why are you telling me to put my feet down?) and looked clearly annoyed but she put her feet down in the end. I think she didn't expect that someone can actually teach her manners.

I think people shouldn't be afraid to say something, but of course, sometimes, giving the situation, is better to shut up.
The woman I was talking about was about my age, ok a few years younger (26 or 27 something like this maybe)...if I was older I'd have said something! The gesture was so so inconsiderate. As I said, and that was actually my point, nothing surprises me anymore.
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Old 26.05.2015, 13:15
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

But what has it got to do with her being Swiss, or whatever. The gesture/behaviour is the problem here not her nationality, oder?

Some of us have such mixed background and speak several languages fluently and live in several cultures- and could 'pass' for different nationalities or ethnicity- depending on situation and company kept at that time, or whom we are speaking to on the phone- how do you know your cow was Swiss? Just because she spoke Swiss German does not mean she was - and as said, irrelevant anyhow.

In our family we have about 15 or more nationalities, often double or even treble, speak so many languages I couldn't even begin to count, 2 races and umpteen mixes, and at least 5 different Christian denominations and many Muslims on several continents, and a lot of variations of agnostics and atheists- and we come in a lot of colours and shades too. I am sort of Swiss here, and sort of British in the UK... and despite my weird British accent, could easily fool you. BTW Portuguese sounds very much like Russian to me- maybe she was ... (irrelevant dear Watson anyhow). I've met many 'cows' - some are Swiss, some come from all over, here, there or anywhere, some I've come across are even East Europeans (the worst just happened to be Bulgarian...just per chance- she was a real *** and made our life a misery for a while (as a lodger) but her nationality was irrelevant).

And yes, whatever her nationality, in a very busy train with many people standing, including elderly people, a child should always be put on one's knee and the seat offered. Punkt Schluss- here, there or indeed ... anywhere. But yes, there were probably other young fit people who could have stood up and offered a seat to ths elderly gentleman. He could have asked too, I would have.

Last edited by Odile; 26.05.2015 at 13:29.
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Old 26.05.2015, 13:29
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Although, in situations like this you'd have expected her to "fraternise" with the person who had a child in his arms and make some room next to her. But, technically, she didn't do anything wrong.
.
It would rather depend in the age of the child in question. If the child was young enough to travel free of charge then technically she shouldn't be occupying a seat if adult fare paying passengers are standing. It's fine for a child to sit in a seat when there are free seats available but once the train was full the mother should have sat the child on her lap and offered the seat to somebody else.

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No, it's common courtesy to sit your young child on your lap if the train or bus is full.

So now you know.
I'm starting to think this is a British concept. When I was a child it was a given and we were brought up to do this ( I think there were even notices on the bus to this effect) but I don't think it was the same in other places based on the replies on here and in other places.
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