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Old 25.05.2015, 10:25
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Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

To the woman who was on the packed to the brim train between Cully and Lausanne yesterday, around 18h50: you were sitting with your 6-7 year old child next to you, staring at crushed passengers, smiling. It was critical: you cannot possibly have missed the elderly gentleman who was passing out or the man standing right next to you with a toddler in his arms, his wife sobbing quietly behind him because people could hardly breathe.


Not for one second did you think that by taking your child on your lap you would have made a big difference to the suffering of these people. No, you pretended the world did not exist and continued babbling (in Russian?). Had I been a bit nearer and able to move, I would have lifted you off your seat and taught you some manners. Shame on you!
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Old 25.05.2015, 10:33
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

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To the woman who was on the packed to the brim train between Cully and Lausanne yesterday, around 18h50: you were sitting with your 6-7 year old child next to you, staring at crushed passengers, smiling. It was critical: you cannot possibly have missed the elderly gentleman who was passing out or the man standing right next to you with a toddler in his arms, his wife sobbing quietly behind him because people could hardly breathe.


Not for one second did you think that by taking your child on your lap you would have made a big difference to the suffering of these people. No, you pretended the world did not exist and continued babbling (in Russian?). Had I been a bit nearer and able to move, I would have lifted you off your seat and taught you some manners. Shame on you!
Were you not close enough to say something to her?
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Old 25.05.2015, 10:42
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

Everybody around her were just staring and puffing about her lack of courtesy but no one spoke up?

I would have say something.
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Old 25.05.2015, 10:44
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

Somebody should have something to her and acted- I certainly would- why on earth didn't you? (posts crossed Nil)... not much point telling us here and now, is there...
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Old 25.05.2015, 10:46
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Were you not close enough to say something to her?
Unfortunately, not close enough and very frankly, I was struggling to breathe myself, close to fainting. I have never been in a situation like this and it was scary.
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Old 25.05.2015, 10:51
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

I see the point of Nil and Odile, but when your feet don't even touch the floor, you cannot move an arm or even a hand, while trying to protect your own daughter from falling, it is very hard to do or even say anything. People closest to her could have perhaps said something, but they did not.
I think everyone was in a state of shock, struggling to breathe.
I heard and saw a couple of ambulances at the train station in Lausanne, I strongly suspect something to do with our train.


How so many people were allowed to be packed on one same train is a question I'll put to CFF. Never again do I want to experience this. But it makes the nonchalance of that woman all the more horrifying.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:09
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

i can't stand people like that. but there are a couple of trains an hour from cully- to be fair, if it was that packed i would have tried other options as it doesn't seem a nice or safe way to travel, esp with kids. there certainly are alternatives from cully to lausanne and anytime i've seen the train packed (cully jazz, paleo, etc, it happens often and i find you may have to say something louder, but people can hear and will respond) i'll just wait longer and get on the next one.

likewise, if the game of telephone always works well- if you can't say something to the person, say something really loud the person closest and hopefully they'll get the idea.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:28
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

The problem was that, while packed, it had been bearable until a "sea of people" turned up in the last few minutes and boarded the train. That's when the driver should have blocked the doors and it was too late for any of us to change our mind or do anything else.


I did say something to the people nearest to me (in English, French and eventually German), but the message was not relayed, unfortunately.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:29
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

The farting thread comes to mind.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:36
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

As a Vaud resident, I have to admit that such happenings are rather frequent. There is a reluctance to give up you seat for someone else in need or to even assist anyone.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:44
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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The farting thread comes to mind.


Unfortunately, it added to the suffering!
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:46
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Don't let them get away with it, and they will soon learn. I would have asked politely- then if no reply, would have asked her if she wants me to pick up the child or would she prefer to do it herself- then would have picked up the child gently and put 'it' on her lap- then offered the seat to the elderly gentleman. End of.

And if the person was on EF, they would be posting today about that battle axe of a Swiss woman who dared talked to her and remove her child- oh YES

But I would have spoken in English- just to fool everybody ...

Last edited by Odile; 25.05.2015 at 12:03.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:50
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

The only trains between Lausanne and Cully (and other smaller stations along Lake Geneva) are the S services; in the peak hour or heavy demand (with little kids, the weekends are prime culprit services), they are pretty awful. Worse than peak hour trains 2nd class between Bern and Zurich - yeah, big call...

Unfortunately, with only 2 trains an hour or thereabouts (I believe that's the frequency), people really don't want to wait an extra half hour for the next train unless they were really, really comfortable with their time (although the little kids accompanying them may not be so patient). Even if it means pushing hard into the train and just breathing in enough for the doors to close, that's what will happen. And unlike some other places in the world, there are no officers with white gloves to push you behind to help out.

I've been on crush-packed trains around the world - anyone been to Japan? They are all much the same, although admittedly some decent ventilation helps a lot in making sure people stay sane, let alone alive. The S trains are probably not as well conditioned in this respect, or at least when capacity reaches crush conditions. The fact that it was recalled ambulances were summoned and people were visibly near the point of passing out somewhat reflects this inadequacy. Those aisle floors that go up and down the length of the train aren't great either when the train rocks side to side, sending a wave of force back and forth through the crushed passengers like a sound spring.

My guess is that there will be no action from CFF unless someone actually dies; of course, the more pertinent lever is that they will more likely demand more resources and leeway to expedite expansion of the network (frequencies, lines, station and platform accommodations, etc.). Actually, I don't have any political or evidence based justifications for these conclusions - it's just my opinion / big guess.

As for the lady in question who seemed not to care, I'm sure someone would have spoke up, not necessarily to chide her for her lack of concern, but at least to request whether they could have the said seat, especially if someone really needed it. Then again, as alluded to upthread, sometimes when you're crushed in a train, all you want to do is "exist" and shut up, until you arrive at your destination.
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Old 25.05.2015, 11:52
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Thank you softbed, you've summed it up.


As it was the Vaud Caves Ouvertes, one would assume CFF would have planned for extra carriages.
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Old 25.05.2015, 17:07
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Some people think it is a game of musical chairs. They got there first so they won't move until they have to get off. Like in Ikea when they all arrive & put their coats on chairs to block tables then go to stand for 1/2 an hour in the queue for food.
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Old 25.05.2015, 17:49
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

Being on public transport appears to bring out the worst in people.

Have experienced this a lot when I lived in Geneva and Lausanne. People squeezing into already packed trains like their lives depended on it Unfortunately many people nowadays have deplorable manners. It's more important that they feel at ease than compromising their comfort for the sake of everyone's safety.

Maybe we need a crash-course lesson in manners from Japanese commuters who survive hellishly packed trains on a daily basis.
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Old 25.05.2015, 17:57
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Maybe we need a crash-course lesson in manners from Japanese commuters who survive hellishly packed trains on a daily basis.
They do it by groping each other sexually. Maybe that's what was missing on this train.
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Old 25.05.2015, 18:19
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Re: Bringing shame on yourself...with a smile!

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Maybe we need a crash-course lesson in manners from Japanese commuters who survive hellishly packed trains on a daily basis.
They do it by groping each other sexually. Maybe that's what was missing on this train.
Adrian, Adrian, what kind of Websites are you frequenting?
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Old 25.05.2015, 18:31
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

It was all Tav to do to get his mobile phone out, elbow a few people out of the way and post about it on EF.

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Unfortunately, not close enough and very frankly, I was struggling to breathe myself, close to fainting. I have never been in a situation like this and it was scary.
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Old 25.05.2015, 19:58
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Re: Bringins shame on yourself...with a smile!

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It was all Tav to do to get his mobile phone out, elbow a few people out of the way and post about it on EF.


My Migros cheapo does not allow me to say I live and operate in the digital age!
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