....Should we women in our late 20ies, early 30ies keep our hopes up? Where did all the gentlemen go or is there a new kinda gentlemen-like behaviour we don`t quite get yet? Fact is women want to be self supporting and independent, but we still kinda hope for men to take the initiative. Are REAL gentlemen extinct?

In Western Europe people marry when thirty something so everything's okay.
When you meet an interesting but shy specimen, hey, damn with the conventions. It's the end result which matters.

Ohh! I think binge-watching "Sex and the City" until it hurts is in order here, then, some girlfriends, and occasionally, men. And don't go to couples parties, or else you'll get the pity look or the "she'll steal my husband" look.

since there's still around a 50/50 ratio of men to women, then there should be as many single men as single women around.

frankly, in the west, it is now seems fairly unusual to marry and have children in your 20s.

This thread is nothing without pics.

A little more seriously, I think that an independent woman can and should be open about who she is and what she wants. I always find it more fair when flirting goes both ways, and the better you understand and are unembarrassed by your own turn-ons, the easier it is to end up satisfied.

But then, as a chronically single guy approaching middle age, I'm clearly unable to figure out romance and the last person who should be proffering advice.

Are American/Canadian/English-men more gentlemen like than the Swiss men? I am Swiss myself but I do not get Swiss men at all. Sometimes I feel like you gotta be happy if they happen to not let the door hit your face when entering the restaurant first... It`s the small things that matter, don`t they? Swiss guys don`t seem to be educated in this regard. How come American/Canadian/English men know more reagrding nice gestures?

They are out there somewhere...but they exist.

Sometimes, they are just under our nose, but we don't "see" them. Then, one day, we realize that we cannot live without that one dearest, best friend, who makes us laugh and completes our life. And then we're hooked

It's funny to hear this... (I've heard these sentiments from others too) I am in my late 20's and I feel that myself and my friends were all raised to some... Normal standards? I dunno, treat women with a little extra respect, listen, empathize, care, etc. Pretty basic stuff to treat other people! Maybe we aren't the loudest or flashiest bunch, but normal guys are out there, probably more than the not normal ones? We're most likely just hidden in plain sight

Honestly, I think it's not a Swiss but a Swiss German thing. And yes, I'm Swiss myself (and a girl).

Here in Romandie, most men, teenagers included, hold the door to let ladies pass, for instance.

I dunno about normal... I'm Canadian. I kinda had it drummed into me as a kid: Help her put her coat on, hold the door, up the stairs behind - down them ahead, always walk on the traffic side, offer your jacket, get out and open the passengers door and a host of other things anchored in my brain stem.


I will admit that while I was in my 20's I did form a negative impression when some misguided Feminist stated "I can put my own coat on", sure fire way to make a first also an only date. Too much WASP in me to actually say anything.


Just keep being you Vostok4, eventually even the short fat ones find a partner, at least that is how things used to be.

Women embraced 90's 'girl power', which in turn escalated the rise of the binging slapper and conversely, the cold, ruthless business type - is it any wonder that men now can't be arsed to play the game?

Just keep kissing those frogs ..... and one time you might get lucky.

This one is a keeper, Ms. Swiss, and ThomasSSS and Vostock, sound fine, too. See? Ask and it shall be answered. Good luck!

Dear OP: you could try leaving Zurich once in a while.

There was a time of course where women were helpless, weak things who needed an arm to lean on when out in the big, wide world. Going into a restaurant was a rare occassion, so the man (distinguishable as the trouser wearer and at one time called 'the gentleman') took care of things. His 'lady' wore a good quality coat covering a nice dress which the gentleman assisted in removing (the coat I mean) and hung it carefully on a hanger after ensuring the lady had everything she needed, speak handbag. The coat (as such) wasn't just slipped off then slung over the chair back to graze along the floor by the jean's wearing lass as today where the handbag - as a symbol of femininity has been replaced by the iphone which is promptly gazed at as soon as the chair is occupied and where the surroundings become a haze, until a vague call of 'what are you having' is heard slightly in the distance and the answer automatically is 'oh, a big mac or something'.
Things have changed - but it's not sooo bad as certain moments tend to suggest - in general goood manners prevail, the illusion of superior maleness has weakened considerably as women begin to level out the assumed differences between the sexes. Today women are soldiers, doctors, pilots, mountain climbers... and we poor men are slowly being squashed into a corner.

Given your question: get a cat. You'll need it.

No, we're just all taken.

Tom

And there was me thinking the real question was "Where did all the ladies go?"

Ken: At least one of them was in Mooloolaba...

Sorry, got married.

I think in order for their to be ample "gentlemen", there must necessarily be ample "ladies." Of course, what makes either is a matter of opinion. In my view, however, being either is a bit restrictive in the long run. I gave up trying to be a "lady" a long time ago - preferring simply to be me.

I see no reason why men should be deferential to women. Basic respect , politeness, and consideration between both sexes in their interaction with each other should suffice. Of course, if OP is finding even that lacking in Swiss men, then I am happy I snagged mine long ago in Canada...