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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #8081  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What has that even remotely to do with "the left"?

If you're thinking I am part of "the left", think again.
Every comment like this is attributed to "the left". Whether you're left wing or not is irrelevant.
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  #8082  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:46
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

indeed- I have no idea of where that fallacious concept comes from- that to be anti Brexit, or anti populism, or racism, or anti fascism, or anti Gelders, Trump or Le Pen, or feminist (notice small f) or ...

= being on the left ?!?:msncrazy in the 21st C - totally outdated concept The only parties who have been and are fighting against Brexit are the Liberal Democrats and the Greens. The PM for Holland is hardly left wing either
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  #8083  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:49
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Nazis never won the popular vote.

UKIP won 12.5% of the vote last time out and yet the Queen has today authorised Brexit.



"Unpleasant amount of common ground". Yet another example of why the left are finished.
Someone forgot to tell the Dutch, then.

And the Austrians.
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  #8084  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Someone forgot to tell the Dutch, then.

And the Austrians.
Go and count the sum total of what Left wing parties polled last night.

And then go and look at the current polls in Austria.
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  #8085  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:58
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Every comment like this is attributed to "the left". Whether you're left wing or not is irrelevant.
Many of the references on here to "the left" could easily, and less hysterically, be swapped for "moderates".

I think people are quickly getting weary of the glory-seeking gobshites which are talking the big talk and walking the big walk purely to get themselves into a seat of power.

Just because they are not getting elected does not mean it's because of screaming beardy liberals, it's just your average Joe seeing through the thin veneer of pretend credibility.
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  #8086  
Old 16.03.2017, 16:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why are the press trying to compare Brexit with Wilders? One is a far right party that want's to ban a religion. The other is simply leaving the European Union. There are no similarities between the two apart from a minor part of Wilders' manifesto in that he also want's the leave the EU. The election was ran on an entirely different theme though.
My Dutch isn't great, but his second most important point hardly seems minor to him:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/geert-...nifesto-2017-2
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  #8087  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Many of the references on here to "the left" could easily, and less hysterically, be swapped for "moderates".
True, but these are times we're living in. The media is as much to blame for this as anyone.
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  #8088  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Go and count the sum total of what Left wing parties polled last night.

And then go and look at the current polls in Austria.
In the USA, there were indeed a lt more voices for the Democrats than the Republicans (as you speak of sum total) - and yet you could hardly call Hilary 'on the left' in so many ways.
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  #8089  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In the USA, there were indeed a lt more voices for the Democrats than the Republicans (as you speak of sum total) - and yet you could hardly call Hilary 'on the left' in so many ways.
She isn't Left at all. Left wing politics barely exists in the US.

Look at Europe though, and you'll see the steady demise. France will be a race between a right wing conservative, an elitist right winger masquerading as a centerist and the far right. The top three polling parties in Holland were all right wing. In the UK Labour are finished. It's the same pattern everywhere. The SPD are only polling high in Germany because people are desperate for an alternative to Merkel.
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  #8090  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:10
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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My Dutch isn't great, but his second most important point hardly seems minor to him:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/geert-...nifesto-2017-2
...and in the other direction looking at UKIP (I'm taking this from Wikipedia as I really don't want to contaminate myself with UKIPs own website)...:

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In UKIP's literature, the party has placed an emphasis on "restoring Britishness" and counteracting what it sees as a "serious existential crisis" exhibited by the "Islamification" of Britain, the "pseudo-nationalisms" of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, and the multicultural and supranational policies promoted by "the cultural left", describing its own stance as being "unashamedly unicultural".
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  #8091  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Go and count the sum total of what Left wing parties polled last night.

And then go and look at the current polls in Austria.
Alright.

Left Wing and Liberal parties:
PvdA - 9
SP - 14
D66 - 19
GroenLinks - 14
PvdD - 5
VVD - 33
DENK -3

Total seats held by the above parties as of 2017 =97.

Total seats held by above parties (or equivalents) in 2012 = 41+38+15+12+3 = 109

Seats needed for a majority - 75.

Now, my maths may be a tad off, but if i remember my schooling correctly, 97 is, in fact, greater than 75...Can anyone confirm for me?

If, in the middle of the greatest crisis of the left wing, the right wing was able to reduce the majority of the left wing parties by only 12 seats, and less than 10%, while at the same time giving a foothold to new left wing parties, in an election they were widely expected to be the biggest player in, and at a time when the traditional left wing party has suffered a massive drop in support then i'm afraid the right has indeed failed.

By the way:

Total increases for all right wing parties = +13 seats.

And that is only if very generously, you include the CDA, who are actually centrist and not right wing. Without including the CDA, your right wing soared in the polls by all of 7 seats.

Total increases for the left wing parties? +22 seats.

Yeah, the left wing is "finished".
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  #8092  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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She isn't Left at all. Left wing politics barely exists in the US.

Look at Europe though, and you'll see the steady demise. France will be a race between a right wing conservative, an elitist right winger masquerading as a centerist and the far right. The top three polling parties in Holland were all right wing. In the UK Labour are finished. It's the same pattern everywhere. The SPD are only polling high in Germany because people are desperate for an alternative to Merkel.
I guess you've not looked at any French opinion polls for the last month or so then? Or do you somehow put Macron in one of those boxes?
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  #8093  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:32
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I guess you've not looked at any French opinion polls for the last month or so then? Or do you somehow put Macron in one of those boxes?
I believe Macron would be the "elitist right winger masquerading as a centerist".

Loz seems to have forgotten that his party, En Marche, describes itself as a socially liberal, pro Europe, party.

And the fact that Macron himself is a europhile, pro immigration, environmentalist.
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  #8094  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Alright.

Left Wing and Liberal parties:
PvdA - 9
SP - 14
D66 - 19
GroenLinks - 14
PvdD - 5
VVD - 33
DENK -3

Total seats held by the above parties as of 2017 =97.

Total seats held by above parties (or equivalents) in 2012 = 41+38+15+12+3 = 109

Seats needed for a majority - 75.

Now, my maths may be a tad off, but if i remember my schooling correctly, 97 is, in fact, greater than 75...Can anyone confirm for me?

If, in the middle of the greatest crisis of the left wing, the right wing was able to reduce the majority of the left wing parties by only 12 seats, and less than 10%, while at the same time giving a foothold to new left wing parties, in an election they were widely expected to be the biggest player in, and at a time when the traditional left wing party has suffered a massive drop in support then i'm afraid the right has indeed failed.

By the way:

Total increases for all right wing parties = +13 seats.

And that is only if very generously, you include the CDA, who are actually centrist and not right wing. Without including the CDA, your right wing soared in the polls by all of 7 seats.

Total increases for the left wing parties? +22 seats.

Yeah, the left wing is "finished".
You've labeled the dutch equivalent of the Tory party as left wing. You're explanation is senseless.

I'll make it easy for you. How about you tot up the total number of seats won by Left wing Social Democrat party. Here's a hint, they won 25 seats last time out.
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  #8095  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:40
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You've labeled the dutch equivalent of the Tory party as left wing. You're explanation is senseless.

I'll make it easy for you. How about you tot up the total number of seats won by Left wing Social Democrat party. Here's a hint, they won 25 seats last time out.
Did i now?

The VVD believes in (among other things)
Sustainable development
Secularism
Emancipation
Cultural assimilation
Animal rights
pro-Europeanism
Internationalism
Relaxation of drug laws
Universal health care
Pro Choice
Euthanasia


Yes, they're a carbon copy of the UK Tory party.



Loz, you have good days and bad days. You're having a bad day. Take it like a champ and sign off for a while. This time, the right wing failed. You win some, you lose some.
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  #8096  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Did i now?

The VVD believes in (among other things)
Sustainable development
Secularism
Emancipation
Cultural assimilation
Animal rights
pro-Europeanism
Internationalism
Relaxation of drug laws
Universal health care
Pro Choice
Euthanasia


Yes, they're a carbon copy of the UK Tory party.



Loz, you have good days and bad days. You're having a bad day. Take it like a champ and sign off for a while. This time, the right wing failed. You win some, you lose some.
The stupid, it burns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...he_Netherlands
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brexit-referendum-thread-potential-consequences-gb-eu-brits-ch-16-03-2017-16-43-36.jpg  

Last edited by Loz1983; 16.03.2017 at 18:12. Reason: Links added for blind people like Marton
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  #8097  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The stupid, it burns.
Getting desperate - posting unreadable images

Did you read the bit (I could eventually!!) where it said the VVD ideaology is liberalism - as you wrote "The stupid, it burns"
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Old 16.03.2017, 17:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The stupid, it burns.
Burning you this time. Writing a label in a box doesn't make it right. The tories stopped the centre part of "centre-right" in the 80s.

Edit...OK, maybe a brief wander back under Major
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  #8099  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Loz, you have good days and bad days. You're having a bad day. Take it like a champ and sign off for a while. This time, the right wing failed. You win some, you lose some.
Been great, hasn't it!
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  #8100  
Old 16.03.2017, 17:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I guess you've not looked at any French opinion polls for the last month or so then? Or do you somehow put Macron in one of those boxes?
Macron is the elite. He's a former Rothschild banker that made it straight to being the Minister for Economy without running for election. He's all style, no substance and ruthlessly ambitious. The worst possible combination for becoming President and France will only find this out when it's too late. He's only a centrist if you're using Stalin as a benchmark for what left of center is.
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