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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #8761  
Old 10.04.2017, 23:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Well, as said, I am afraid I disagree. Many vulnerable, frail, poor, downtrodden, unemployed, sick people did believe in the promises made re jobs going back to the locals, jobs coming back that will never come back, in or out of EU (mining, steel works, textile, basic engineering, etc) and re the pressure taken off the NHS, schools, housing, etc, by extra funds taken away from EU to pay for them.

If people were not swayed by such videos and adverts- there would be no need for a Trades Description Act- for the sale of goods and services. Some people are easily taken in, for many reasons- and the above Act is there to protect them from fraudsters- sadly it does not apply to the Government or other political parties.

Are you saying that the German people, in a time of crisis- were not taken in by Hitler's promises that he would make Germany great again?


Watch this video shown on prime TV during the Brexit campaign. It is truly shocking and absolute boll*cks - I think we will both agree- but look closely at the message: It is disgusting and fraudulent, but some people, a significant number (and in such a close result- even more significant). It is laughable but it worked on many:

https://youtu.be/LtlGN8wVnis
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  #8762  
Old 10.04.2017, 23:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Well, as said, I am afraid I disagree. Many vulnerable, frail, poor, downtrodden, unemployed, sick people did believe in the promises made re jobs going back to the locals, jobs coming back that will never come back, in or out of EU (mining, steel works, textile, basic engineering, etc) and re the pressure taken off the NHS, schools, housing, etc, by extra funds taken away from EU to pay for them.

If people were not swayed by such videos and adverts- there would be no need for a Trades Description Act- for the sale of goods and services. Some people are easily taken in, for many reasons- and the above Act is there to protect them from fraudsters- sadly it does not apply to the Government or other political parties.

Are you saying that the German people, in a time of crisis- were not taken in by Hitler's promises that he would make Germany great again?
I don't know enough about German politics to comment, but I know enough working class English people to know that they are neither stupid nor gullible.
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  #8763  
Old 11.04.2017, 00:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

As everywhere, some are, some aren't. The vulnerable are often more so- because they are down and are looking for miracles.

Same in Germany, in 1933- and i am sure, absolutely, that you do know enough of German history indeed.
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  #8764  
Old 11.04.2017, 03:38
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't know enough about German politics to comment, but I know enough working class English people to know that they are neither stupid nor gullible.
Well they certainly appear to be very politically unaware! Claiming you never voted for the EU while at the same time voting in governments who commit you further to that objective. Voting in a referendum, only to discover later that it was non binding. Failure to show any real concern for the attempt by the PM to subvert the constitution for political expediency.

Some years ago I was shocked to read some U.K. politicians argue that the PR system was too complicated from British voters. I thought it was an insult to the voters intelligence, but after seeing the referendum acted out over the past while I begin to wonder if perhaps just maybe there was a little merit to their argument after all.
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  #8765  
Old 11.04.2017, 08:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't know enough about German politics to comment, but I know enough working class English people to know that they are neither stupid nor gullible.
Stupidity and gullibility are relative things, especially where busses and big letters are involved.
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  #8766  
Old 11.04.2017, 12:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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...but I know enough working class English people to know that they are neither stupid nor gullible.
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Well they certainly appear to be very politically unaware!
As a British working class person, I'm neither stupid nor gullible nor politically unaware. I've voted Liberal my entire adult life specifically because I believe that PR is one of the most important requirements in a functioning society, though oft neglected, and the various incarnations of the Lib Dem party are the only ones who've consistently had PR as a major manifesto issue. That neglect has led generations of people to believe that their vote doesn't matter, and that's why you get people disengaging from the political system and seeing it as a matter decided by 'elites'.

What I heard from people who voted Leave was that it was the first time in their life where they felt their vote was equal to everyone else, so they voted for change rather than more of the same. Now, I'm not risk adverse, but I like calculated risks, not change for the sake of change.
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  #8767  
Old 11.04.2017, 14:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I don't think people were [swayed by videos]. Who takes any notice of what politicians promise? Nobody cares what they have to say. We all know they lie all the time.
You're effectively saying political campaigns have no effect, by extrapolation the same applies to PR of any kind.

No offense DB but WRT people in general that's nonsense.
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  #8768  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a British working class person, I'm neither stupid nor gullible nor politically unaware. I've voted Liberal my entire adult life specifically because I believe that PR is one of the most important requirements in a functioning society, though oft neglected, and the various incarnations of the Lib Dem party are the only ones who've consistently had PR as a major manifesto issue. That neglect has led generations of people to believe that their vote doesn't matter, and that's why you get people disengaging from the political system and seeing it as a matter decided by 'elites'.

What I heard from people who voted Leave was that it was the first time in their life where they felt their vote was equal to everyone else, so they voted for change rather than more of the same. Now, I'm not risk adverse, but I like calculated risks, not change for the sake of change.

Just out of curiosity, did any of them express regret over their Leave vote after the fact? I'm curious if the media's stories about people in the Leave camp regretting their decision actually holds merit, or if it's more drama. Did you experience this at all?
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  #8769  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:18
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You're effectively saying political campaigns have no effect, by extrapolation the same applies to PR of any kind.

No offense DB but WRT people in general that's nonsense.
The extrapolation is entirely yours.
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  #8770  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:34
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just out of curiosity, did any of them express regret over their Leave vote after the fact? I'm curious if the media's stories about people in the Leave camp regretting their decision actually holds merit, or if it's more drama. Did you experience this at all?
I'd be surprised if people didn't regret their decision, especially regarding a vote as important as this. If I hadn't done the reading I did in the days before I finally crossed the box, I should imagine that I would have had a few wobbles afterwards (although, if I hadn't done the reading, I'd have probably gone for Remain in the first place).


Brexit is unlikely to be pretty or painless - big transitions rarely are - but that doesn't mean it should be regrettable. I don't think the Indians or the Americans enjoyed their great national transitions very much, but you'd be hard pressed to find any who would want to return to the days of the British Empire.
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  #8771  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'd be surprised if people didn't regret their decision, especially regarding a vote as important as this. If I hadn't done the reading I did in the days before I finally crossed the box, I should imagine that I would have had a few wobbles afterwards (although, if I hadn't done the reading, I'd have probably gone for Remain in the first place).


Brexit is unlikely to be pretty or painless - big transitions rarely are - but that doesn't mean it should be regrettable. I don't think the Indians or the Americans enjoyed their great national transitions very much, but you'd be hard pressed to find any who would want to return to the days of the British Empire.
Fair enough. I would imagine that some people felt a bit of regret due to misinformation and new realizations that came to light after the vote was final. If this is the case, then you could argue that people were misinformed or had a lack of information before making the vote. It's just hard for me to believe this is the case with so many different media outlets and sources coming at this thing from every angle.
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  #8772  
Old 11.04.2017, 15:44
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's just hard for me to believe this is the case with so many different media outlets and sources coming at this thing from every angle.
Yeah, but it was all garbage. Nobody knows what's going to happen. Not the Daily Mail, or the Guardian, or the Independent, or the Daily Express. Both sides were full of utter nonsense, speculation, scaremongering and bilge in the run up to the referendum, and, from what I can see, they still are.


The only reliable source was the EU itself.


... somewhat ironically.
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  #8773  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:01
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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As a British working class person, I'm neither stupid nor gullible nor politically unaware.
I did not say you were, but none the less the impression is of an unsophisticated electorate.

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What I heard from people who voted Leave was that it was the first time in their life where they felt their vote was equal to everyone else, so they voted for change rather than more of the same.
Right so they failed to realise that voting in a referendum on the future of the country was not the time to stick it to the government or what?
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  #8774  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:06
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Just out of curiosity, did any of them express regret over their Leave vote after the fact? I'm curious if the media's stories about people in the Leave camp regretting their decision actually holds merit, or if it's more drama. Did you experience this at all?
I only know 3 people who voted Leave, so it's hardly a fair representation, but to answer your question, No, not that I'm aware of.

The one I'm the closest to was shocked and angry when Cameron resigned, then disgusted when Johnson and Gove both pulled out of the leaderhip contest. We talked at great length before and after the referendum, mainly because she was getting a hell of a lot of abuse from colleagues for her opinion, but I know her family and always knew she'd vote in line with them, regardless. They've always actively held her back in her ambitions for further education and a new career, but now that she's been made redundant as the result of her job being transfered to the continental European division (allegedly), and her kids have all left home, perhaps she'll finally follow her ambitions.
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  #8775  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Right so they failed to realise that voting in a referendum on the future of the country was not the time to stick it to the government or what?
Precisely. It was a chance to stick it to Cameron and only a year after he was reelected. A hefty percentage of the arguments I saw on social media were specifically relating to UK government decisions and policies rather than EU rulings.
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  #8776  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:16
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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One possibility is that the £ exchange rate will be lower so they deliver less profit home which in term pushes them to further cut costs or raise fares or in the worst case pull out of a franchise that nobody else is interested in taking over.
Pulling out of a franchise won't sae them money or increase profits, there would be huge write offs by doing that.
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  #8777  
Old 11.04.2017, 16:17
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I only know 3 people who voted Leave, so it's hardly a fair representation, but to answer your question, No, not that I'm aware of.

The one I'm the closest to was shocked and angry when Cameron resigned, then disgusted when Johnson and Gove both pulled out of the leaderhip contest. We talked at great length before and after the referendum, mainly because she was getting a hell of a lot of abuse from colleagues for her opinion, but I know her family and always knew she'd vote in line with them, regardless. They've always actively held her back in her ambitions for further education and a new career, but now that she's been made redundant as the result of her job being transfered to the continental European division (allegedly), and her kids have all left home, perhaps she'll finally follow her ambitions.
Thanks for the info, and yea I was shocked with Johnson and Gove pulled out. The Cameron thing surprised me as well, but still not as much as Johnson.
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  #8778  
Old 11.04.2017, 17:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Maybe we should be relieved that we are leaving

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Old 11.04.2017, 18:21
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Maybe we should be relieved that we are leaving



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  #8780  
Old 11.04.2017, 18:55
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The extrapolation is entirely yours.
Obviously.
The "nonsense" refers to both parts.
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